I always fit D-Rated sensors, is there a reason not to?
- Thread starter Scoob
- Start date
True that... even my good old AGP-65GY would have easily put any LongRange Engineered 8A Sensor Package of 3305a.d. to shame.
(oh, and that AGP-65 was a hell less heavy than an 8A Sensor hehe, that's far more than my old maximum permitted TakeOff Gross Weight was all by itself)
Yeah i know,. I do understand this is a game & some things seem illogical, Also get Indigo point that bigger ships would need more coverage from radar/sensors nodes placed around the ship to detect targets. The weight is clearly for balancing, but it doesn't make sense, and the benefits are marginal for the weight. For the cost of such A8 sensors it would be cheaper to have kitted out cobras surrounding you with A4 sensors. Personally i'd rather they'd atleast expand the benefits of sensors to other areas like less jitter during chaffs, if weight is a sign of quality.
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Ok, time to get out my crayons I suppose...
Sidewinder: Class 1 Sensor, Mass 1.3 - 2.0 tons.
Anaconda: Class 8 Sensor, Mass: 64-256 tons.
Now with our heads in the full, upright and extracted position, let's postulate a little here. Our little tiny sidewinder, at 21.4 x 14.9 m needs two sensor nodes, one in the front, one in the back, and has 360 degree coverage, out to their range of 4km. Our much larger Anaconda, at 61.8 x 152.4 m needs many more sensor nodes, let's say 2 in the front, 2 in the back and 6 down each side to give that same 360 degree coverage out to their range of 5.12 km.
Some basic math:
Where x = the mass of the sensor node
2x < 16x
Thus the 8E sensor suite of the Anaconda is heavier than the 1E sensor suite of the Sidewinder.
Falling back to my earlier example of WiFi equipment for a home versus that of a business...
This is a heat map. It shows the coverage and strength of coverage for this floor of an office building. As you can see, there is no coverage on the east side of this building, because someone didn't bother to think about the coverage area of each access point. For this office, simply moving some of these access points around would provide good coverage for the entire office. A single access point might not provide very good coverage though, but might be just fine for your home.
Thus, covering more area requires more equipment, more equipment has more mass.
This isn't rocket science.
This is rocket science.
Neither is understanding that wifi signals and thermal imaging aren't comparable, or that ED Sensors make no sense, but hey, you do you.
Yeh, the weight of the larger sensors is ridiculous and should be fixed.
Once again, science is proven correct - the densest mineral in the universe is cranium.
Our sensor suites are more than just Thermal Imaging. Doubt it? Turn your sensors off and try to request docking.
What is the temperature of a cargo container full of gold, floating in the vacuum of space?
Whatever room you're in, it's room temperature in there.
Grade and Class are not the same thing. Yes, different classes do have different masses, within their grades.
Hence the Sidewinder above, has a mass range of 1.3 - 2.0 tons. Of total sensor equipment, in a Class 1 module. Why is the D-grade so much lighter? It's made of wax paper and plastic. The A-grade, much heavier, is made of aluminum, steel and ceramic.
The Anaconda is a class 8. That's huge. Massively huge.
In Cargo terms, a Class 8 Cargo module holds 256 tons of material. A Class 1 holds 2 tons of material.
This is a class 1, E-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about a pound.
This is a Class 8, A-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about 190 pounds.
Inconceivable, isn't it?
Turning your sensors off indeed shuts off comms . . . except for your message inbox, and other ships sending you direct comms. I take it Stations have special communications that must be "sensed" to be received? Seems daft for traffic controllers to have worse comms than every ship in the galaxy.
Apparently warmer than the silent running ship evading your sensors by retaining it's heat, which you can clearly see with the naked eye, but the very same sensors can't see.
More ways that sensors in ED make no sense.
Just so ya know, I'm not poking fun at you, just at the notion that sensors in ED make a shred of sense.
For my two cents, a place where A-rated sensors can give the CMDR a life-saving edge is in combat, where an extra one-second difference in detection time might save a CMDR's ship. My "dedicated, combat" ships sport A-rated sensors. Victory has its many costs and IMO combat is a place where the absolutely best toys can give a CMDR that minuscule edge and hopefully skill (or luck) takes him or her the rest of the way. o7
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Ok, time to get out my crayons I suppose...
Sidewinder: Class 1 Sensor, Mass 1.3 - 2.0 tons.
Anaconda: Class 8 Sensor, Mass: 64-256 tons.
Now with our heads in the full, upright and extracted position, let's postulate a little here. Our little tiny sidewinder, at 21.4 x 14.9 m needs two sensor nodes, one in the front, one in the back, and has 360 degree coverage, out to their range of 4km. Our much larger Anaconda, at 61.8 x 152.4 m needs many more sensor nodes, let's say 2 in the front, 2 in the back and 6 down each side to give that same 360 degree coverage out to their range of 5.12 km.
Some basic math:
Where x = the mass of the sensor node
2x < 16x
Thus the 8E sensor suite of the Anaconda is heavier than the 1E sensor suite of the Sidewinder.
Falling back to my earlier example of WiFi equipment for a home versus that of a business...
This is a heat map. It shows the coverage and strength of coverage for this floor of an office building. As you can see, there is no coverage on the east side of this building, because someone didn't bother to think about the coverage area of each access point. For this office, simply moving some of these access points around would provide good coverage for the entire office. A single access point might not provide very good coverage though, but might be just fine for your home.
Thus, covering more area requires more equipment, more equipment has more mass.
This isn't rocket science.
This is rocket science.
And yet larger warships manage with a slightly larger radar array ... not a 128x larger one ...
Ok, time to get out my crayons I suppose...
Sidewinder: Class 1 Sensor, Mass 1.3 - 2.0 tons.
Anaconda: Class 8 Sensor, Mass: 64-256 tons.
Now with our heads in the full, upright and extracted position, let's postulate a little here. Our little tiny sidewinder, at 21.4 x 14.9 m needs two sensor nodes, one in the front, one in the back, and has 360 degree coverage, out to their range of 4km. Our much larger Anaconda, at 61.8 x 152.4 m needs many more sensor nodes, let's say 2 in the front, 2 in the back and 6 down each side to give that same 360 degree coverage out to their range of 5.12 km.
Some basic math:
Where x = the mass of the sensor node
2x < 16x
Thus the 8E sensor suite of the Anaconda is heavier than the 1E sensor suite of the Sidewinder.
Falling back to my earlier example of WiFi equipment for a home versus that of a business...
This is a heat map. It shows the coverage and strength of coverage for this floor of an office building. As you can see, there is no coverage on the east side of this building, because someone didn't bother to think about the coverage area of each access point. For this office, simply moving some of these access points around would provide good coverage for the entire office. A single access point might not provide very good coverage though, but might be just fine for your home.
Thus, covering more area requires more equipment, more equipment has more mass.
This isn't rocket science.
This is rocket science.
Yes ... 2x is eight times less than 16x. But not 128x less or whatever ridiculous multiplier FD is using.
Ok, time to get out my crayons I suppose...
Sidewinder: Class 1 Sensor, Mass 1.3 - 2.0 tons.
Anaconda: Class 8 Sensor, Mass: 64-256 tons.
Now with our heads in the full, upright and extracted position, let's postulate a little here. Our little tiny sidewinder, at 21.4 x 14.9 m needs two sensor nodes, one in the front, one in the back, and has 360 degree coverage, out to their range of 4km. Our much larger Anaconda, at 61.8 x 152.4 m needs many more sensor nodes, let's say 2 in the front, 2 in the back and 6 down each side to give that same 360 degree coverage out to their range of 5.12 km.
Some basic math:
Where x = the mass of the sensor node
2x < 16x
Thus the 8E sensor suite of the Anaconda is heavier than the 1E sensor suite of the Sidewinder.
Falling back to my earlier example of WiFi equipment for a home versus that of a business...
This is a heat map. It shows the coverage and strength of coverage for this floor of an office building. As you can see, there is no coverage on the east side of this building, because someone didn't bother to think about the coverage area of each access point. For this office, simply moving some of these access points around would provide good coverage for the entire office. A single access point might not provide very good coverage though, but might be just fine for your home.
Thus, covering more area requires more equipment, more equipment has more mass.
This isn't rocket science.
This is rocket science.
The longest axis on the Conda is 152.4m. E class sensors run to 5.12Km. The worst possible directional coverage from a single point is 4.9676Km. Add a sensor to the opposite end along the center line and the worst coverage is raised to 5.0881Km. That's with 2 points. Conda's aren't that big compared to sensor range even if they dwarf a sidewinder. Even if we assume sensors scale with horrendous efficiency and the mass doubles for each one to get the extra range a class 8 gives if you're bridging the gap from 2.6 to 160T because of a worst case loss of 152.4m you should probably stop trying to be a rocket scientist.
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Grade and Class are not the same thing. Yes, different classes do have different masses, within their grades.
Hence the Sidewinder above, has a mass range of 1.3 - 2.0 tons. Of total sensor equipment, in a Class 1 module. Why is the D-grade so much lighter? It's made of wax paper and plastic. The A-grade, much heavier, is made of aluminum, steel and ceramic.
The Anaconda is a class 8. That's huge. Massively huge.
In Cargo terms, a Class 8 Cargo module holds 256 tons of material. A Class 1 holds 2 tons of material.
This is a class 1, E-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about a pound.
This is a Class 8, A-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about 190 pounds.
Inconceivable, isn't it?
Yes, it is inconcaivable, because if a class 8 and 1 are that different the capabilities should be wildly different as opposed to mildly different.
Grade and Class are not the same thing. Yes, different classes do have different masses, within their grades.
Hence the Sidewinder above, has a mass range of 1.3 - 2.0 tons. Of total sensor equipment, in a Class 1 module. Why is the D-grade so much lighter? It's made of wax paper and plastic. The A-grade, much heavier, is made of aluminum, steel and ceramic.
The Anaconda is a class 8. That's huge. Massively huge.
In Cargo terms, a Class 8 Cargo module holds 256 tons of material. A Class 1 holds 2 tons of material.
This is a class 1, E-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about a pound.
This is a Class 8, A-Grade satellite dish. It weighs about 190 pounds.
Inconceivable, isn't it?
Class AAAAA 500m Aperture Spherical Telescope (in China). It weighs a lot
The same could go for rocket engines. Even the Saturn V had a classification against your whimpy A class model rocket engine
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At least the basic concept is being grasped at last. And I never claimed my explanation made perfect sense, just sense. I don't disagree either that some of these massive class sensor arrays are grossly over-massed - they certainly are. And while yes, it is entirely possible to build something that is much bigger, without it actually being any better, that also falls into the realm of "why bother?".
However, it also seems very likely to me that Frontier has plenty of other things to worry about than something that really is this minor at this point in time. It's not like Elite is a complete, final game. It still has several years worth of growth left before we really need to obsess over minutiae.
Class 10, Grade A.
Of course, I'll top all of them when NASA finally approves my Whole Earth Tethered Frequency Amplified Radio Telescope project.... if they'd just quit complaining about the acronym.
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The concept was grasped from the beginning, it just seemed nonsensical since the first post for the very reason spelled out with numbers later. As for why bother, they won't because it's likely for balancing mass as much as anything and it's not like the conda needs help with jump range.
That said, it's still silly the games played with concepts like mass and other attributes sometimes that make the game overall not make all that much sense, like sensor mechanics as a whole. And with this I'm not sure how fixing it would actually be difficult. Other modules have different masses at a given class so it's not like their all irreversibly connected. The viper got it's mass changed without a massive overhaul. Not sure why this would be different.
I mean a Diesel engine built for a semi truck wouldn't be able to fit inside a Mini Cooper. The Engine for the Mini wouldn't produce enough Energy:Torque to move the semi. Even if you could fit the diesel engine into the mini it would be too heavy. Even with ALL the necessary modifications, it's not practical
There was a guide that explained in laymans terms the quality you're getting per letter grading. If we're specifically talking about sensors and radar, think about it like this: you could mount an underwing LITENING pod underneath a 737, but unless you're looking to drop laser guided bombs from United Airlines flights, theres no point; even if you over look the fact they don't sell LITENING Pods to commercial airlines. If not a Litening pod, maybe the radar dish on the E-3 Sentry. It's big, it draws power and consumes fuel like an mmmmmhm
For a combat ship in ED, a larger ship would benefit from a more powerful radar with better heat management than a "lighter" radar. Don't get me wrong, you could turn any ship in ED into a combat ship if you try hard enough. But the options are there in order for players to play their way or play differently if they're that bored..
There was a guide that explained in laymans terms the quality you're getting per letter grading. If we're specifically talking about sensors and radar, think about it like this: you could mount an underwing LITENING pod underneath a 737, but unless you're looking to drop laser guided bombs from United Airlines flights, theres no point; even if you over look the fact they don't sell LITENING Pods to commercial airlines. If not a Litening pod, maybe the radar dish on the E-3 Sentry. It's big, it draws power and consumes fuel like an mmmmmhm
For a combat ship in ED, a larger ship would benefit from a more powerful radar with better heat management than a "lighter" radar. Don't get me wrong, you could turn any ship in ED into a combat ship if you try hard enough. But the options are there in order for players to play their way or play differently if they're that bored..
Blimey!
Some people going to great lengths to justify their opinion about the viability of sensors in the ED universe.
Hate to say it but... it's a game.
Sure, the weights are probably a bit silly but, meh.
If you're finding that the weight of your sensors is causing practical issues for your ship, fit D-rated sensors and light-weight 'em.
Otherwise, don't worry about it.
With G5 light-weight 8D sensors (12.8t), my Corvette has a jump-range of 31Ly and top speed of 296m/s.
With G5 long-range 8A sensors (320t), my Corvette has a jump-range of 28Ly and a top speed of 288m/s
So, adding 300t of weight knocks a couple of Ly off the range and 8m/s off the speed - in return for tripling the sensor's range.
It's certainly worth thinking about which sensors you fit but it's not really worth getting bent out of shape over their weight... silly as those weights are.
Some people going to great lengths to justify their opinion about the viability of sensors in the ED universe.
Hate to say it but... it's a game.
Sure, the weights are probably a bit silly but, meh.
If you're finding that the weight of your sensors is causing practical issues for your ship, fit D-rated sensors and light-weight 'em.
Otherwise, don't worry about it.
With G5 light-weight 8D sensors (12.8t), my Corvette has a jump-range of 31Ly and top speed of 296m/s.
With G5 long-range 8A sensors (320t), my Corvette has a jump-range of 28Ly and a top speed of 288m/s
So, adding 300t of weight knocks a couple of Ly off the range and 8m/s off the speed - in return for tripling the sensor's range.
It's certainly worth thinking about which sensors you fit but it's not really worth getting bent out of shape over their weight... silly as those weights are.
Usually try for getting typical emissions as close to 8K as possible with either as little weight or power use as possible. Because targetting is capped at 8K, have almost never found the need for seeing 10-14k out.
Was tempted to use LR A’s for bombarding ground sites, but they almost made ground defense nearly untargetable unless within 1.5-3k.
Was tempted to use LR A’s for bombarding ground sites, but they almost made ground defense nearly untargetable unless within 1.5-3k.