I do not like exobiology

[Sysmon]

I think the idea of the 3 samples came up when they had to get rid of the first incarnation of the Bio scanner. Maybe they thought they had to find some kind of compensation for the lost tormentor. This is what happens when you take minimalist game design to the extreme.

the edit below came shortly after the +1 (sorry @Linnunrata, just take it back if you don't agree)

But what a missed opportunity to kill several birds with one stone: a bio-scanner mechanism that makes it dependent on the personal skill whether and how much of the remaining two samples still have to be scanned. I could even imagine a kind of hybrid between the original scanner and the current situation...

Problem was that the original scanner was twitch-based, which fit as well as the original casino interface fit Engineering.
Leave the multiple samples needed, but vary the amount based on skill. Make skill a puzzle-related one (match up DNA patterns or cluster patterns or whatever). Vary the difference between sub samples taken depend on physical distance between sample locations, so there will be a tactical element as well (further travel = larger chance of a useful sample).
And so on.
Unfortunately FD just have a pile of cards with a variety of phone-app gameplay loops on. These are stored in a big floppy hat, which is consulted when something new is added to the game.

S

 

[nemolomen]

It's more tedium added on to an already tedious task, but at least with regular exploration it is still rewarding enough to be worth it. Finding a ringed Earth-like world? hell yeah! having to travel sometimes kilometers to scan 1 thing 3 times, and then do it again for the next, and again, and end up being on the same body seeing the same 2 different plants even though you got back on the ship, went far enough out to use dss to find the specific organism you haven't found yet, land and still see those same 2 plants and not the one you are looking for. no.
on top of that, grinding elite rank for it is the worst out of all the elite rank grinds, since you need to do all that tedium about roughly 1000 times. thanks but no thanks

Lately I've been doing a lot of explo and Odyssey has added quite a bit to that. I've been having a grand old time. On any single landable atmo body I can find different types of terrain, drive/fly my SRV like no tomorrow, and as far as finding things goes, there are mats, vents, fumaroles, fire pyres (or whatever the real name is), geysers, and up to (so far) 6 different biologicals. Getting everything on a single body usually requires more than one landing and scouting via either SRV or ship to find the very well hidden ones. I have not had a single issue scanning any biologicals I can find in the last two weeks. The biggest problem is the bacteriums. I've left a few bodies without finding them, but only a few. Oh, and within so many LY of the bubble, I also find minor wreckage (requires Mav suit) to get Ody mats and distress signals with cargo and occupied escape pods. The biological data is actually worth quite a bit and builds up fast, though not as much as pristine carto data.

 

[Screemonster]

I tried to do some exobiology yesterday. I found a system that hadn't been visited on foot, five bodies with two bio signals each.

Which meant landing on each one, getting the SRV, scanning three samples of bacteria and three samples of fonticula for each body.

Since the samples had to be so far apart (and the bacteria was so sparse) it was necessary to use the SRV. Hop out, scan a thing, hop back in, drive to the next thing.

I had two eternal black disembarks that forced a menulog, and two crashes to desktop while disembarking. The bacteria is such a pain to find since it has basically no vertical profile that I took to driving with the external camera hovering 150m above my buggy. Frequently, I found a bacteria patch right next to a fonticula, but it was my second fonticula and I had to drive half a km away to get the third because I can only sample one thing at a time.

By the time I finished the system, I no longer wanted to do exobiology.

I can vaguely forgive having to hunt down the samples, but the need to hunt down three samples and having to ignore any others you find and come back to them later, coupled with the constant embarking/disembarking (and the very real probability of a CTD/softlock while doing so) makes it feel like pulling teeth.

 

[Sysmon]

I don't know why people think the SRV has anything to do with bio-signals. One of the main points of exobiology for me is that I do everything from my ship (Cobra, what else): tracking and then landing right next to the bioforms. This is much faster than the SRV and has the advantage of encouraging low-level flight below 50 metres.

The only downside is that while Odyssey is a perfect screenshot generator, in motion all those fantastic ground textures start to pump and breathe at a certain speed and low altitude. For me, this is a far bigger bummer than any repetitive textures.

On the other hand, I love how exobiology now gives me a strong incentive to fly close over planetary surfaces. The game just needs to follow suit now.

The old life forms we can find (bark mounds etc) do have signals that the SRV wave scanner picks up. The new plants don't. That seems to be an oversight.

S

 

[varonica]

The old life forms we can find (bark mounds etc) do have signals that the SRV wave scanner picks up. The new plants don't. That seems to be an oversight.

S

No it isn't, your SRV scanner is picking up the minerals attached to the trees, try clearing the entire grove of plants of minerals, all the signals vanish, your SRV scanner picks up mineral deposits, it's just lucky the old type all have mineral deposits. Of course we should have some sort of devices that can detect plant life, but I am not sure what form that should take, people already complain about the way the wave scanner works in the SRV so something different might be better.

 

[Sysmon]

No it isn't, your SRV scanner is picking up the minerals attached to the trees, try clearing the entire grove of plants of minerals, all the signals vanish, your SRV scanner picks up mineral deposits, it's just lucky the old type all have mineral deposits. Of course we should have some sort of devices that can detect plant life, but I am not sure what form that should take, people already complain about the way the wave scanner works in the SRV so something different might be better.

True! Either way, they are picked up by the SRV. Game play continuity could be helped greatly by allowing a similar feature for the new plants. Don't even have to be a feature we can so brutally shoot off for stuffs - just a way to actually use all our modes of transportation towards a single purpose in exploration gameplay.

S

 

[Riverside]

I don't know why people think the SRV has anything to do with bio-signals. One of the main points of exobiology for me is that I do everything from my ship (Cobra, what else): tracking and then landing right next to the bioforms. This is much faster than the SRV and has the advantage of encouraging low-level flight below 50 metres.

The only downside is that while Odyssey is a perfect screenshot generator, in motion all those fantastic ground textures start to pump and breathe at a certain speed and low altitude. For me, this is a far bigger bummer than any repetitive textures.

On the other hand, I love how exobiology now gives me a strong incentive to fly close over planetary surfaces. The game just needs to follow suit now.

I do the same, it is a good opportunity to use small, fast ships (I'm currently out hunting salad in a 740m/s iEagle).

The actual salad hunting is fairly dull but it is an excuse to test my landing skills, or climb mountains on foot if I can't land close enough. It's not dangerous but there is some satisfaction from getting the more challenging ones that adds to the exploration & discovery play.

 

[Riverside]

I scanned some tree thing a few times until the soda can was full then sold it to a lady in the mall food court for half the price of a sidearm. Was fine, but not particularly inclined to do it again.

I could say the same about PvP

 

[Morbad]

I could say the same about PvP

PvP is a broader thing that results from a convergence of circumstances where player controlled characters come into direct conflict, and wouldn't do well as a discrete gameplay loop. Honestly, I'm not sure exobiology does either.

The current exobiology gameplay is to exobiology, as CQC is to PvP, or as Mad Magazine is to literacy. Even if you like the specific thing, it's not representative of the whole...but in the case of EDO exobiology, there isn't a whole lot beyond that specific thing. It's a language where the only piece of literature is Mad Magazine.

 

[Riverside]

PvP is a broader thing that results from a convergence of circumstances where player controlled characters come into direct conflict, and wouldn't do well as a discrete gameplay loop. Honestly, I'm not sure exobiology does either.

The current exobiology gameplay is to exobiology, as CQC is to PvP, or as Mad Magazine is to literacy. Even if you like the specific thing, it's not representative of the whole...but in the case of EDO exobiology, there isn't a whole lot beyond that specific thing. It's a language where the only piece of literature is Mad Magazine.

Well, in my progression to Salad Elite I have learned a bit about flora nomenclature, and if that were a subject that I was interested in I could be motivated to delve deeper into that rabbit hole.

While exploring the galaxy I have been motivated to learn lots about the real galaxy, and I think there is a lot more overlap between people that want to fly pretend spaceships and people who are interested in astronomy.

In combat of any form there are useful tactics that can be applied & there can be motivation to research more into the art of war, although I think a lot of the more nuanced tactics apply more usefully to BGS conflicts direct PvP can be considered a kind of martial art, but one that is pretty specific to the rules of ED's game universe.

I agree that Salad hunting as an activity is not that deep, but I think the comparison to PvP (or buckyballing, or canyon racing) is fair. It is something to do, alone, co-operatively or competitively. I'd rather do this than not play at all The skill required to do it is not the same though, it is a test of tenacity rather than outright skill.

 

[Morbad]

Viewed in isolation, you are of course absolutely right. However, PvP - viewed in isolation - is even more pointless.

I'd argue that PvP, in such isolation, cannot be distinguished from any other expression of violence, and thus, absent context, cannot exist to any meaningful degree.

That's one of the reasons I'm adverse to the optionality of 'PvP' (and piloting, and travel, and many other things that may apply contextually appropriate constraints to gameplay). If one can choose to avoid it, removes it's practical utility and thus it's meaning, except as a game within a game, a sport...and I'm not after the simulated experience of playing a sportsman within the Elite universe, but a pilot who has to make choices and face consequences.

Exobiology at least makes some money...

My CMDR has made a lot more money from shooting down other CMDRs, saved quite a bit from not allowing other CMDRs to shoot him down, or take his cargo, and occasionally even taken stuff from other CMDRs, via various organic expressions of PvP, than he has via the exobiology loops.

That said, in a game that has gone out of it's way to shower CMDRs with massive credit rewards for so long, credits themselves have lost most meaning and are a poor way to put anything into context.

I agree that Salad hunting as an activity is not that deep, but I think the comparison to PvP (or buckyballing, or canyon racing) is fair.

My point was that salad hunting is a discrete activity, or collection of discrete activities, while PvP, broadly speaking, is not. It ususally implies combat piloting, which is, but there are direct hostile interactions that are are still PvP that are not decided by that and not all PvP is an expression of that. It's a higher level abstraction than/synthesis of any deliberate gameplay loop.

it is a test of tenacity rather than outright skill.

Everything is a skill, even applied patience.

 

[Riverside]

My point was that salad hunting is a discrete activity, or collection of discrete activities, while PvP, broadly speaking, is not. It ususally implies combat piloting, which is, but there are direct hostile interactions that are are still PvP that are not decided by that and not all PvP is an expression of that. It's a higher level abstraction than/synthesis of any deliberate gameplay loop.

Salad hunting is certainly optional, it can be ignored in a way that the broad concept of competing against other players cannot even if it's only for discovery tags if one is inclined to be competitive (and I am) but it is no more discrete an activity than any other, including direct PvP.

Both benefit from optimal equipment, some skill, some tenacity, both offer opportunities to learn, and to refine technique based on experience. And of course both can be completely bypassed by any player without them really noticing any difference, but experience with both can add experience that is useful in other aspects of the game & the opportunity to practice skills acquired in an unending quest for perfection.

But I don't think many people would buy a game to hunt salad, a lot of people have the game's approach to PvP (either way) as a key purchasing decision.

Salad hunting isn't cool, or exciting. It's just something else to do. It can be pretty satisfying though

 

[Sighman]

For me, exobiology is an incentive to visit planets on my quest for the perfect screenshot.

In 5 years of Horizons I took maybe 40 screenshots. Since Odyssey Alpha I've taken about 4500. A lot of them feature plants.

What can I say, it makes a nice change from shooting people and blowing up ships.

 

[Morbad]

Salad hunting is certainly optional, it can be ignored in a way that the broad concept of competing against other players cannot even if it's only for discovery tags if one is inclined to be competitive (and I am) but it is no more discrete an activity than any other, including direct PvP.

Both benefit from optimal equipment, some skill, some tenacity, both offer opportunities to learn, and to refine technique based on experience. And of course both can be completely bypassed by any player without them really noticing any difference, but experience with both can add experience that is useful in other aspects of the game & the opportunity to practice skills acquired in an unending quest for perfection.

In my view a discrete activity is a gameplay loop that mandates specific tools, tools that are often of limited utility elsewhere. Salad hunting, for the purpose of anything the game tracks, is a discrete activity. PvP is not because PvP is a very general application of whatever is on hand to the end of some form of violence against another player's character. The exobiology gameplay provided requires very specific tools that have no utility otherwise. PvP doesn't even require weapons, and if it did, those weapons have broad utility outside of PvP.

The experience or skill they mandate is neither here nor there when it comes to this. PvP is not an individually distinct action.

I have no experience with PvP, but from what I hear it seems to be the least rewarding activity when it comes to credits.

Among activities that might be persued for credits, it is.

So either you must have reinvented the wheel or you are just such a lousy exobiologist.

I've done enough of the mining and exobiology loops to know the basics of how they work, and essentially nothing past that which would have required any specific tools. That one bounty in the first video linked is more than my CMDR's life time mining + exobiology profits, because mining equipment hasn't been on my CMDR's ships in years, and the only reason I even touched exobiology past the alpha is because the Artemis is my favorite combat suit and I was in a fight next to some trees once.

I'd pay much more attention to exobiology and these other things if they had applications that might have tactical or strategic value to my CMDR. As it is, they only have credit value and credits have no value. Maybe if he had to know which lifeforms made for good eating on extended trips, could be turned into poison, or could cure the clap...then he'd care, but as long as it's just a checkbox in the tour guide and some credits he'll probably never need again, any advancement along that path will be purely coincidental. The game just doesn't have the constraints and mechanisms to incentivize many of these things organically, and has depreciated the credit into irrelevance.

 

[Bigmaec]

If only we'd gotten a new SRV that had a salad hunting scanner instead of a dysfunctional plasma hose with the accuracy of a stormtrooper.

 

[Riverside]

In my view a discrete activity is a gameplay loop that mandates specific tools, tools that are often of limited utility elsewhere. Salad hunting, for the purpose of anything the game tracks, is a discrete activity. PvP is not because PvP is a very general application of whatever is on hand to the end of some form of violence against another player's character. The exobiology gameplay provided requires very specific tools that have no utility otherwise. PvP doesn't even require weapons, and if it did, those weapons have broad utility outside of PvP.

The experience or skill they mandate is neither here nor there when it comes to this. PvP is not an individually distinct action.



Among activities that might be persued for credits, it is.



I've done enough of the mining and exobiology loops to know the basics of how they work, and essentially nothing past that which would have required any specific tools. That one bounty in the first video linked is more than my CMDR's life time mining + exobiology profits, because mining equipment hasn't been on my CMDR's ships in years, and the only reason I even touched exobiology past the alpha is because the Artemis is my favorite combat suit and I was in a fight next to some trees once.

I'd pay much more attention to exobiology and these other things if they had applications that might have tactical or strategic value to my CMDR. As it is, they only have credit value and credits have no value. Maybe if he had to know which lifeforms made for good eating on extended trips, could be turned into poison, or could cure the clap...then he'd care, but as long as it's just a checkbox in the tour guide and some credits he'll probably never need again, any advancement along that path will be purely coincidental. The game just doesn't have the constraints and mechanisms to incentivize many of these things organically, and has depreciated the credit into irrelevance.

You make a decent point Morbad, but one that also applies to direct PvP

PvP is a niche within combat, salad hunting is a niche within exploration. Both provide some additional motivation to continue to play for the player so inclined. Mining is a subset of trading for players that are motivated by that. All can be used to manipulate the BGS. I spent a lot of time doing faction support until the beginning of last year, the overwhelming majority of the influence I applied came from exploration data. Salad hunting is an inefficient way to accumulate inf, but it is part of that, just as PvP is an inefficient way to influence via combat.

Your reasoning for not spending more time hunting salad (or exploring or mining, all your arguments apply to those too I think) is no different to why I don't actively pursue direct PvP. There are more productive ways to spend my time for the purpose of manipulating the BGS.

But manipulating the BGS isn't my primary goal, finding reasons to fly different ships is. Manipulating the BGS is just another reason to fly different ships

 

[Morbad]

You make a decent point Morbad, but one that also applies to direct PvP

Not the part about dedicated tools for discrete gameloops.

Your reasoning for not spending more time hunting salad (or exploring or mining, all your arguments apply to those too I think)

Exploration is one of those more general things, there are subsets of it that have their discrete gameplay loops, but exploration in a general sense does not, and the basic tools for many of it's subsets are integrated into every ship. There are also definite strategic and even tactical uses for system and mapping data.

Mining is nearly as discrete and compartmentalized as exobiology, but even it can tie into fueling an FC or providing Engineering or synthesis materials, which are things I find tedious, but it does broaden the applicability of mining and further integrate it with the rest of the game.

is no different to why I don't actively pursue direct PvP. There are more productive ways to spend my time for the purpose of manipulating the BGS.

I rarely actively pursue direct PvP. That would be missing the point, for me.

 

[Riverside]

Not the part about dedicated tools for discrete gameloops.

I know you apply a very loose definition to 'PvP', even stating earlier that weapons are not essential, which I accept (I don't fire on other Cmdrs although I am usually armed it's for PvE). Perhaps you will accept in turn that, given the motivations for salad hunting I stated earlier, that actually scanning the damned things isn't essential to the act? If you are prepared to define salad hunting as broadly as you define PvP

I rarely actively pursue direct PvP. That would be missing the point, for me.

Good point, but still I more actively evade it than you


I think that you are not engaged with salad hunting because you are not engaged with exploration (in the travelling around the galaxy looking at all the things sense). You would do it if it was useful to whatever your goal was at that moment. If your goal were to wander about & discover things and generally hang out at over 600m/s 35m above the terrain you would probably be more motivated to do things that gave a reason for you to be there.

Similarly, I am not really interested in direct PvP encounters because I am not looking for combat unless it is required to achieve whatever my goal is at that moment.

Last week I flipped a system in the Lagoon Nebula because I was bored and there was a bunch of CZs like right over there.
Some other carriers showed up & I lost a day, so I escalated & spent the last day doing six massacre missions because dammit, I'm not giving up now and had great fun winning an opposed war while I was 5000ly away from home. Didn't really care about the combat itself, it was just a means to an end. I think I killed about 300 NPCs on the last day of the war & jumped away before the tick feeling like the cool dood in a movie not looking back as a car explodes behind him.

I also did some salad hunting.

 

[zimms]

Exobiology should be a Codex stat instead of a career, given the gameplay it provides.

Might as well make walking a career too then, I guess.

 

[Morbad]

I know you apply a very loose definition to 'PvP', even stating earlier that weapons are not essential

Well, it would probably be more accurate to say that anything can be a weapon...

Edit: except the Oppressor.