With due respect Sir you'll have to jump around for all of the game's activities,even if you just stay in the Bubble,if that bothers you so much I'm afraid ED it's not a game you'll enjoy.I learned that I will never EVER be an explorer in this game. 20 jumps into my 5K light year trek and all that was playing in my head was "are we there yet". Between that and bouts of smashing my head against my desk, I finally got that done. I also learned that Qwent should go and throw himself into a pit of Thargoids as he is little more than a nasty little gatekeeper. I also learned that Thargoids are really REALLY annoying and they don't like it when you take their sensor fragments (got hyperdicted by them EVERY SINGLE jump I was making back through the Pleiades). Mostly though, I learned that the rest of you folks who managed to get to G5 thrusters, as well as those of you who are true explorers, should be applauded for some really SERIOUS persistance! Good show there, you guys! Now to go get my darn thrusters finished. My Type 10 should fly a whole extra 10 meters per second once I'm done!
I learned a lot from my recent efforts to unlock Palin and finally get G5 thrusters
- Thread starter Eraden
- Start date
I was never much of a trader, and had more than two-hundred in the same time. Hell, I probably got fifty in the first couple of weeks just looking for Viper parts.
5kly out and back in is just a test run for any fuel scoop equipped vessel I build and has happened accidentally to my CMDR more than once.
I still haven't done more than half a dozen ABA routes on my CMDR. I think that's the problem. I had my CMDR trade as he wandered around, I didn't grind out trading.
I find Lei Chung wasn't an issue on my main - as they had organically done a reasonable amount of trading. But on Alts I tend to try and unlock all the engineers as soon as possible, so he's always a pain.
Palin OTOH synergises really well with other unlocks - use that 5k to pick up Explo data and he'll give you the data to unlock Sirius / Alioth and maybe others, so works really well. Unless, as seems the case with the OP, you choose to take an unengineered T10 on the trip
Palin OTOH synergises really well with other unlocks - use that 5k to pick up Explo data and he'll give you the data to unlock Sirius / Alioth and maybe others, so works really well. Unless, as seems the case with the OP, you choose to take an unengineered T10 on the trip
On the contrary, I've seen many complain about it. I'm one of them.
Palin is the headliner.
So I just suggested it be reduced above. Not removed. The tasks themselves are fine (though I'd suggest Palin have a much more interesting one that actually adds to his lore? Like visit a location he's been involved in? Could even just be the crash site... It's way more interesting than a random 5kly location).
Yup not everyone suggests changes. But with engineers unlocking, it's pretty obvious what the changes need to be. Less repetition. Easy fix too!
I'll repeat, fdev are open to reducing repetition. They've agreed engineers has repetition. It was less than a few weeks ago we had a couple threads about mats grinding and another about mats trading.
Shot down just like this one. Yet... A single AMA later and...
Engineers design has a list of potential improvements longer than my arm. Doesn't mean we don't still do it. Doesn't mean we don't enjoy some of it. But it can be possible for it to be made more fun and less arduous at the same time.
Providing perfectly balanced solutions to fdev isn't a requirement. The idea is to shorten a loop that feels repetitive and overly drawn out, specifically for new commanders (which is everyone now).
If you think fdev need intricately woven and elegant solutions from us, with cross examination from our diligent QA peers, then you have forgotten that their fix for reducing materials gathering grind initially was to multiply yield by 3...
OP, I love you for your candor and "on-the-nose" feelings.
After I did my 5000ly,
I never wanted to do long-distance exploration again.
Even the quick trip out to the Witch Head, for the Thargoid CG, I stopped discovery scanning, as I just wanted to make "progress" getting to my destination.
Even with a fleet carrier, the time I would save jumping, probably would be offset by mining and refueling by myself (hazard a guess, don't have the money for that silly stuff )
I vowed I would not venture to colonial until I could walk around the ship or planets.
Just to alleviate the boredom of the gameplay being limited to the pure hermatic cockpit experience, and having no stations and BGS to interact with.
After I did my 5000ly,
I never wanted to do long-distance exploration again.
Even the quick trip out to the Witch Head, for the Thargoid CG, I stopped discovery scanning, as I just wanted to make "progress" getting to my destination.
Even with a fleet carrier, the time I would save jumping, probably would be offset by mining and refueling by myself (hazard a guess, don't have the money for that silly stuff
)I vowed I would not venture to colonial until I could walk around the ship or planets.
Just to alleviate the boredom of the gameplay being limited to the pure hermatic cockpit experience, and having no stations and BGS to interact with.
So presently, we're at a 1:1 ratio between you and I.
I like exploring. I'd done 25kly by the time engineers came out. It's possible some new commanders will be the same. It's diminishing odds though compared to engineers releasing on a 2 year old game.
As a check box "try this, you might like it!" task, 5kly is excessive. It could be something much less arbitrary too, like visiting a much more local site that Palin had interest in. Still involves the explorer loop. Just less arbitrary. Less repetition. Still fun though right?
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Yeah, as I said, some just want things nerfed. As ever
The Python was actually enhanced back in 2015 in my opinion. Perspective is everything.Yeah, as I said, some just want things nerfed. As ever
Objectively argue that 50 is a better number than 10 if the objective is "teach someone to do something" or "try it out" or "oh look you've just accidentally already done the check list well done you!"
Your argument is against people asking for change. It often is, mate. I know why. I mean, you've been here years and you did it all right?
Don't do it. Grind for a carrier, its just on a few weeks if not quicker now.
Then just go and only jump around where you land and find your own game for exploration. There's more stuff to work out regarding what you like once you make it past the travelling problem. Very soon it becomes the same thing over and over again, endlessly, so you gotta find your own take. Im guessing its a personal thing for everyone who made it through.
Then just go and only jump around where you land and find your own game for exploration. There's more stuff to work out regarding what you like once you make it past the travelling problem. Very soon it becomes the same thing over and over again, endlessly, so you gotta find your own take. Im guessing its a personal thing for everyone who made it through.
If it's just supposed to introduce the explorer loop, sure something like that could work.
I do think it's intended to be a bit of an endurance test though.
Just for reference, this third run of Engineers I've used my main commander's carrier to ferry my alt about, including the 5kly one.
You'd think it might make it less tedious but it doesn't. Interesting enough from a carrier exploration loop perspective though. But if we're recommending this to new commanders....
I'm surprised so many just seem against the idea that these tasks could be made more interesting? 300ly for Elvira is cool. But why not have Palin send you to a location to do something rather than an arbitrary "you've travelled 5kly? Oh my, you're a true explorer, welcome, welcome!"
Gathering his sensor fragments is immensely more fun. And contained in itself, more challenging too.
Trading 50 markets? Why? Why 50? Why not cut it to just "make a +20% profit margin on a sale"? It's the same loop. It's actually challenging (you actually have to research). It's got very little repetition. Most of all, it's makes way more sense than now, where you can just trade at a loss on every transaction.
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So you think people will prefer to be told to go to one location rather than be given a choice of thousands
Sure .... I can see people loving that ... especially on their 3rd unlock
Was dead easy for me - my general gameplay for a lot of 1.1 and 1.3 was a lot of time going from place to place "ooh, I should see all the superpower capitals" or "that white dwarf system over there looks interesting", in a 15-20LY range ship (and often using economic routing anyway to see more places along the way), always trading something from one hop to the next.
I don't know what I'd have been on by the time 2.1 released but it would have been way over 50. Probably over 500.
(Thinking about it, I've definitely traded at 50 different markets in the last week because I'm still doing much the same thing, really)
ABA routes are for people actually trying to make money from the thing, rather than wandering around vaguely doing stuff because that's what they did in FFE and Oolite and why not start with something comfortable. So I quite like Cheung for being a huge barrier to min-maxers and virtually unnoticeable to casual wanderers. "Visit 50 systems, do some trading while you're there, maybe shoot something or run a mission..." that's the game, isn't it? [1]
The only invitation requirements I didn't meet before finding out the engineer existed were Lori Jameson (didn't get to Dangerous until after I'd moved to Colonia, but since she's in Shinrarta anyway and only has marginally useful blueprints, clearly intended to be the "final one") and Selene Jean, because mining had been so dull in FFE and Oolite, and pre-collectors was much the same in Elite, so it'd never occurred to me to try. Once prodded in that direction the 500t was pretty quick, though. Palin I did get slightly lucky with in that I didn't get around to doing Qwent until after the Crab Nebula Expedition (7kLY), and if I'd rushed all the engineers on their release I'd have hit that requirement too.
[1] Much of my culture shock over the years has basically been discovering that I think that's the game, Frontier more-or-less thinks that's the game, and huge numbers of players treat it as a speed-run optimisation challenge regardless
Definitely no arguments there: none of them are particularly interesting, a proper short mission themed to the engineer would be a lot better. It's one of those places where a "single player plot mission that everyone gets to do once" in the MMO tropes wouldn't actually be out of place with the rest of Elite Dangerous, and they could give out plot and lore background at the same time.
Ironically of course that sort of thing would probably be even slower for min-maxers or people trying to speed-level their alts. But that's fine with me.
(They'd have to let people who've already unlocked the engineers take the mission - perhaps in exchange for one free maxed module of their choice? - so the rest of us got to have the fun too, of course)
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I'll go out on a limb here.So you think people will prefer to be told to go to one location rather than be given a choice of thousands
5kly trip anywhere or ~300ly trip to actually do something relevant to Palin.
Yes. I'm confident that'd draw fewer complaints. How many complaints do we see about sensor fragments now, compared to how you used to acquire them? Do you actually remember how we used to get them?
I love the new way. I didn't even know it changed until I came back this year. So much cooler!
Compare that to... USS farming in deep space in engineers 1.0...
Yes, I'm confident.
Edit: that said I'm less confident fdev have the bandwidth to do this stuff so just shortening the numbers is fine. We can craft the best solutions but when fdev just x3 mats as a fix? Yeh that's fine...
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I learned that I will never EVER be an explorer in this game. 20 jumps into my 5K light year trek and all that was playing in my head was "are we there yet". Between that and bouts of smashing my head against my desk, I finally got that done. I also learned that Qwent should go and throw himself into a pit of Thargoids as he is little more than a nasty little gatekeeper. I also learned that Thargoids are really REALLY annoying and they don't like it when you take their sensor fragments (got hyperdicted by them EVERY SINGLE jump I was making back through the Pleiades). Mostly though, I learned that the rest of you folks who managed to get to G5 thrusters, as well as those of you who are true explorers, should be applauded for some really SERIOUS persistance! Good show there, you guys! Now to go get my darn thrusters finished. My Type 10 should fly a whole extra 10 meters per second once I'm done!
You'll get there eventually
Look at my XB commander stats. I've been to Colonia 4 times i think and twice to SagA* (linked with the Colonia trips)
Never really when out for the sole purpose of Exploration - that was always a side dish for me.
But i do have close to 15k jumps and more than half million light years traveled - most of them in the bubble (and some repairing the WHN)
So yea, you will get there eventually. And you might even like it at a distant future point
It's definitely easier now than it was originally, there is that. Part of that is the tech broker, which I think is an example of micro game loops done really well. Doing guardians for the third time for 2 modules was still fun enough (though I guess unlocking everything on the table would be mind numbing).You'll get there eventually
Look at my XB commander stats. I've been to Colonia 4 times i think and twice to SagA* (linked with the Colonia trips)
Never really when out for the sole purpose of Exploration - that was always a side dish for me.
But i do have close to 15k jumps and more than half million light years traveled - most of them in the bubble (and some repairing the WHN)
View attachment 198067
So yea, you will get there eventually. And you might even like it at a distant future point
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But the thing is, you are not a new commander. This is your third time through, I would suspect that you are already familiar with ED in a way that I was not just a few weeks ago. This means that our approaches to engineering have been very different. I did not know what steps needed to be taken, I had to do a bit, go and earn something else etc. The notion of knowing what I needed was not there so it was not all at once. If anything, it was overwhelming rather than frustrating, my old brain isn't what it was.
I completely agree with you that there is repetition and since i do not know the thinking that went into the numbers I cannot say if they are abitrary. F Dvs are experienced at this stuff, I am not lol.
I also concur that it could be better. It has to appeal to a wide range of tastes and abilities, something that is neither easy or ever accomplished.
I like your critical assesment though, I always have something to learn from experienced players and their input has helped me considerably.
You could also just find a friendly carrier pilot who is jumping some where.
Maybe jump on for ride to colonia, fly about a bit there, then hitch a ride back.
The target is distance away from, not travelled, so you do not have to physically fly it all.
I did it in the usual badly set up manner in an annaconda with 40ly jump range... Hated most of it. Wished i had set up the ship much better, and taken a different one... But it confirmed my thoughts about exploration, and I did get a couple of personal game goals ticked by it, and I got the magic grade 5 thrusters, and a feeling I had worked for them.
My alt will just look for a ride I think when its that time...
Maybe jump on for ride to colonia, fly about a bit there, then hitch a ride back.
The target is distance away from, not travelled, so you do not have to physically fly it all.
I did it in the usual badly set up manner in an annaconda with 40ly jump range... Hated most of it. Wished i had set up the ship much better, and taken a different one... But it confirmed my thoughts about exploration, and I did get a couple of personal game goals ticked by it, and I got the magic grade 5 thrusters, and a feeling I had worked for them.
My alt will just look for a ride I think when its that time...
Well, he could tell you to go scan a specific (for you, but not everyone the same) Thargoid base/crash site in the Pleiades, and then a Guardian ruin, and maybe another Tharg location in Witch Head. That gets the new players around a bit and see some nice sights/locations. smart players might combine it with material/scan data/blueprint grinds for Tech Brokers as well...So you think people will prefer to be told to go to one location rather than be given a choice of thousands