I love E:D But really?

[Dormant account - pls delete]

T-8 is another example of things just not hanging together. It's a fabulous Rare Goods runner because you can get out to 20,000ls so easily. That should be a whole new aspect of trading-based PowerPlay.

Except Rare Goods in PP 2.0 is broken.

 

[ꝁestrel]

The other part was "for giggles" as in, more of a focus on fun.

When are you not playing for fun?

 

[St0rmFury]

T-8 is another example of things just not hanging together. It's a fabulous Rare Goods runner because you can get out to 20,000ls so easily. That should be a whole new aspect of trading-based PowerPlay.

Except Rare Goods in PP 2.0 is broken.

Imo Mandalay is that ship, and I only got to haul rares with it for a couple of weeks before it was disable for merits.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

When are you not playing for fun?

What is it with this thread and people quoting stuff out of context?

You know what, forget it. My own stupid fault for coming back into something that had degenerated into nonsense already.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

Small ships aren't for new players? What ship did you start in?

It's bad etiquette to argue using half of someone's statement. The other part was "for giggles" as in, more of a focus on fun. You're not using one for building a new station in any significant way anyway.

As for what ship this beats, given the internal, weapons (including convergence) and the agility and speed of the ship, if I bought a Cobra mkV I would see no need for an Asp Scout (obvs), Asp Explorer, Keelback, T-6, FDS, FAS and Krait Phantom (aside from as an exploration ship) in my fleet. It would do everything I would want of those others.

I imagine there's a "just" missing for the argument to make sense. I get where he's coming from as my only current ships are an exploration fitted Cobra 3, and for all else (except bulk trading - which colonisation put me off indefinitely) I'm using a multirole fitted Cobra 5. Using that in Open in the CG system with yet to eat a rebuy despite engaging in some light PvP.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

I saw no mention of ships being included in the DLC... can you provide a source for this statement?

Horizons players won't ever get access to the new ships unless they either buy them via Arx, or buy Odyssey. Fair.

This then implies that these ships are part of Odyssey - but on top of that there's the early-access fee if you want to play with the new content from day one. It's very much debatable whether that's fair on those who already paid Frontier for Odyssey (you can argue it's on sale regularly for a tenner or whatever, but in my case it cost me a juicy 50 Euros, as per usual early adopters get punished).

People who buy Odyssey today will have access to 3 out of 5 ships from the get go, so they likely won't understand why others who either had to shell out Arx/cash or instead wait X months are a bit miffed about this monetisation model. Again, the early adopter problem.

I said it elsewhere but I'd almost prefer if these ships are sold outright, just like additional planes/cars/trains/etc. are sold as separate DLC in other games. At least that's as clear cut as can be if nothing else. It would also eliminate the dilemma of Frontier not wanting to share the sold-for-credits release date to avoid missing out on sales, and players not having to ask when the release date is and get frustrated if they bought ships a week before they release for "free".

Alas, this is what Frontier prefer, so

 

[Ralph Vargr]

When are you not playing for fun?

Building my Coriolis.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

I still don’t get your gripe.

Are you also complaining about Colonisation, or the Thargoid War not being available when you brought Odyssey? As a fellow early adopter of Odyssey, the expansion of a live service game, I certainly didn’t expect everything to be available straight away.

I’m genuinely not understanding your point.

Ok, I'll try to rephrase it (and what you quoted was more to elaborate on @amigacooke 's argument, something I do agree with in principle even though I ended up buying the Cobra 5 despite my dislike towards the monetisation model... I aptly named it 'Moment of Weakness' as a result ).

The issue isn't that people have to spend money to get access to the ships, per se. The issue is that if you want to play with the new ships from their day of release, you have to pay a second time if you already bought Odyssey previously. You can avoid that by waiting X months, but not everyone has the patience of a saint (myself included). It's just another FOMO tactic, made worse by the lack of clarity on when exactly these ships will be available for credits - for obvious reasons from Frontier's perspective.

Edited for clarity

 

[Topo Estepario]

The only place where a Cobra MKV owner could be considered to have an advantage would be in PvP... and that's not the case either. Would a Cobra MKV have a significant advantage against a Krait MK II in combat with equally experienced commanders at the controls? I don't think so.

Early access to ships has a single goal: to raise funding to continue developing the game. And while the new ships have obvious advantages, these advantages aren't decisive; they only make the life of the commander who controls them more comfortable, but they don't allow them to do anything they couldn't do before, providing that convenience and variety.

Is this tactic ethically reprehensible? I don't think so. And Fdev's good faith in not keeping them in early access indefinitely, releasing them in a few months so all commanders can purchase them with credits, definitively destroys the perverse concept of P2W, since you don't gain anything significant by buying them, except the pleasure of flying them.

If we want the game to develop and not die of starvation, we have to loosen our purse strings a little... or not, if it's your decision to wait, which is as right as contributing by paying for early access.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

I do understand the moment of weakness thing. I brought a Mandalay for my alt - I’d always planned to get one for my main and wait for my alt - and now the Corsair has come out I realise I should have waited.

But I wouldn’t call it paying twice. I’m consciously paying extra to get it early, even when it’s an ADHD driven impulse purchase, and therefore it’s a price I’m willing to pay. If I brought it the day before it goes to the public I might be miffed, true.

As always, FDev’s communication should be better so we can make an informed decision.

FYI I edited my post slightly to make more sense, as you refer to the bit I changed in your reply.

As for the moment of weakness point... with the Cobra 5, I was um-ing and ah-ing around Christmas whether I should abandon my principles once again and just buy it. The ship ticked a lot of boxes, and I saw potential for it to offer true one-ship-fleet gameplay given its versatility (to the point of being OP in comparison to other small ships). And it for sure delivers on that - the only thing it still can't do for obvious reasons is bulk hauling but I don't enjoy that so that's ok.

What helped was that it's a genuinely new ship - none of that (lazy imo) copy-paste cockpit malarkey all the other ships suffer from. And I'm a Cobra 3 fanboy anyways so all in all it was an easy decision in the end, first time I bought Arx since 2021.

In hindsight, as Frontier are moving the goalposts when it comes to the release date, I don't regret it. I had my fun with it, still do, but would I buy it now? No way, they could release it next week and the resulting buyers remorse would create more ill will towards Frontier - which is why I realised it's either at (or shortly after) launch or never. And this I think is a real problem corner Frontier pushed themselves into ... I don't know to what extent it costs them compared to selling ships outright instead of the early access phase. Would be intrigued to see what their sales curves for the Arx ships look like.

 

[amigacooke]

Well don’t. It’s optional. No-one is holding a gun to your head.

But begrudging people having early access because they’re willing to pay the money you’re not, is a bit like begrudging someone eating a cream cake that you decided not to eat.

In fact it’s even more nonsensical, because you get a cream cake for free anyway.

I've paid for the cream cake, but I can't have it now, even though it's paid for. To get it now I have to pay more, in a fake currency.

It's not to my benefit in any way.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

The only place where a Cobra MKV owner could be considered to have an advantage would be in PvP... and that's not the case either. Would a Cobra MKV have a significant advantage against a Krait MK II in combat with equally experienced commanders at the controls? I don't think so.

What bums me out a little is how the Cobra 5 runs literal rings around my all-time favourite ship, the Cobra 3. It's better in every single aspect - but I still prefer the looks and the flight model of the 3 regardless. But if I want to get anything done, the 3 is now catching dust in the dock while the 5 gets all the action. For me at least, it's less of a P2W issue than a verisimilitude/balance issue. The Cobra 5 has in my case made every single small pad ship (and a few mediums even) completely redundant. And probably simply because Frontier had to create an incentive for people to spend money on it. Nothing I can do about, but it's still a little disappointing.

They’ve not helped themselves with the delays, for sure.

A little delay so it launches with a specific patch is understandable to most, but leaving the player base in limbo isn’t a great source of goodwill from the community.

Thing is, I can appreciate why Frontier don't want to be as transparent about it as they could be, because that would likely cost them sales - maybe it's a lesson they learned early on with the P2.

 

[amigacooke]

I saw no mention of ships being included in the DLC... can you provide a source for this statement?

If you have Horizons you have to pay to get the ships. If you have Odyssey you don't have to pay to get the ships ... eventually you get them at some unspecified time.

 

[Topo Estepario]

Thing is, I can appreciate why Frontier don't want to be as transparent about it as they could be, because that would likely cost them sales - maybe it's a lesson they learned early on with the P2.

Although they don't say it, the wait is around four months. We already know how long we have to wait... and it doesn't seem like an excessive amount of time to me either.

If you have Horizons you have to pay to get the ships. If you have Odyssey you don't have to pay to get the ships ... eventually you get them at some unspecified time.

Do you think those of us who have Odyssey got it for free?

 

[amigacooke]

Although they don't say it, the wait is around four months. We already know how long we have to wait... and it doesn't seem like an excessive amount of time to me either.

Do you think those of us who have Odyssey got it for free?

No, you get it at no additional cost, unless you choose to cough up the ARX to get the ship now you've already paid for.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

Although they don't say it, the wait is around four months. We already know how long we have to wait... and it doesn't seem like an excessive amount of time to me either.

What I'm saying is Frontier were more explicit about it early on. They obviously changed that since it must've cost them lost sales because people could make a clear decision on whether they wait or buy. Currently, who knows - there's complete radio silence so it could be days away, weeks, or months. With the goal to encourage more sales. Which I find... questionable as a sales tactic. YMMV.

 

[Topo Estepario]

No, you get it at no additional cost, unless you choose to cough up the ARX to get the ship now you've already paid for.

Well, I would have also liked to have updated the 1984 ZX Spectrum version to Oddyssey for free... but it is what it is.

 

[amigacooke]

Well, I would have also liked to have updated the 1984 ZX Spectrum version to Oddyssey for free... but it is what it is.

Eh?

 

[Topo Estepario]

What I'm saying is Frontier were more explicit about it early on. They obviously changed that since it must've cost them lost sales because people could make a clear decision on whether they wait or buy. Currently, who knows - there's complete radio silence so it could be days away, weeks, or months. With the goal to encourage more sales. Which I find... questionable as a sales tactic. YMMV.

Frontier isn't to blame for people's inability to manage anxiety.

 

[Dougie]

...

Thing is, I can appreciate why Frontier don't want to be as transparent about it as they could be, because that would likely cost them sales - maybe it's a lesson they learned early on with the P2.

Scheduling a "credits" release date would undermine their FOMO marketing strategy, we know that.