I miss my X52, because Virpil and VKB are driving me mental...

[ubermick]

Tell you what, boffins - I long for the day of my humble X52 Pro. Yes, it was made of tissues and wishful thinking, but you plugged it in and it WORKED. Well, until it broke. Which it did.

Often.

But rather than buy a third one (like I said, they broke. Often!) I got silly during the oul' pandemic. I dusted off the wallet, ran upstairs, locked the door so the wife wouldn't hear me, and ordered myself some new kit. VKB Gunfighter III with the spacey grip, and a Virpil throttle with lighty up buttons and switches and bits.

Ooooh!

But here I sit, moaning on an internet forum because despite spending two WEEKS off and on with these bleedin' things, I can NOT get them working properly with Elite Dangerous. Partly because of the archaic "ooh, we only recognize 32 inputs per controller, we think its still 2002!" system Elite Dangerous uses, partly because you need a doctorate in theoretical physics and telemetry to calibrate the things. For the absolute LIFE of me, despite getting help from VKB, the stick drifts. Despite going through dozens of how to videos, the throttle (using vJoy and Joystick Gremlin) likes to change inputs every now and again. (Oh, that button you use for your landing gear.. hahahah, now its go to the game menu!)

Best bit, the last bit of advice on the VKB was from one of their own vendors having shown screenshots of my calibration and axes:

I don't see anything wrong here; the device is very sensitive and if you don't hold the grip with a steady hand while twisting it's normal to bleed into x and y axes. You could either exercise more or simply install stronger springs (#20s are really soft...) and/or hard cams.​

​

$1,000 worth of kit, and a grown/educated man (with apparently weak wrists) can't get it to work. Is this the point in my life where if I still had a video, it'd be blinking 12:00 because I can't set the clock?

/rant over.

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Gosh - I was looking at them. They really told you to exercise you wrists? That’s nasty! Btw I cant set the clock on my microwave and the thermostat makes no sense. Deffo must be my time of life - I dont even know who D2EA is - should I?

 

[wrmiller]

I have VKB pedals, but my HOTAS is a Warthog. Been running like a champ for years.

I seriously looked at VKB sticks before I bought my current HOTAS, but they don't make throttles. And then the Russian stick-and-throttle place never had anything in stock.

Good thing for me...

 

[metatheurgist]

So...they literally called you limp wristed!

 

[VR Roxydog]

I went with Virpil stick and throttle but ended up using only the stick and X56 throttle.
Stick is dead steady and a dream compared to the X56 stick.
There are options to use more than the 32 buttons I thought - have you checked out the Virpil forum?

 

[ubermick]

I went with Virpil stick and throttle but ended up using only the stick and X56 throttle.
Stick is dead steady and a dream compared to the X56 stick.
There are options to use more than the 32 buttons I thought - have you checked out the Virpil forum?

There was an older version of their config utility that allowed you to split it into two devices, but they discontinued it.

 

[VR Roxydog]

Bummer

 

[virosh]

There was an older version of their config utility that allowed you to split it into two devices, but they discontinued it.

They removed the virtual device split option but added another in it's place - Keyboard mapping.
You can use this to workaround the ED 32 button per device limit. It will map all your buttons from 33 to 128 as a keyboard strokes. It's ugly but it works.
I use it without any issues in my setup.

EDIT: The option is in the Profile section of the config utility and can be enabled per device.

EDIT 2: Also the Virpil grip base is so precise that just a little bump or the weight of my resting hand can send my ship spinning in some direction. That is the reason deadzones exist and should be used.

 

[Ashnak]

Regarding the spontaneous remapping: as an owner of a dual Virpil stick setup, I'd suggest that's because of your use of VJoy and Joystick Gremlin....

And that bleeding of the twist into x/y: yes. "Training" in that case (at least for me) didn't mean strengthening, but rather muscle control. Moving the twist axis independent of the x/y axes took me a few weeks to get right. I still don't always get it right, especially in combat situations.

 

[ubermick]

So...they literally called you limp wristed!

I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT....

 

[ubermick]

They removed the virtual device split option but added another in it's place - Keyboard mapping.
You can use this to workaround the ED 32 button per device limit. It will map all your buttons from 33 to 128 as a keyboard strokes. It's ugly but it works.
I use it without any issues in my setup.

EDIT: The option is in the Profile section of the config utility and can be enabled per device.

EDIT 2: Also the Virpil grip base is so precise that just a little bump or the weight of my resting hand can send my ship spinning in some direction. That is the reason deadzones exist and should be used.

Oddly, it seems the throttle does flip between them while in use. For example, using vjoy and joystick gremlin, it'll assign [joy 6] from the vjoy device to landing gear. I'll tootle about in the ship, try to deploy landing gear, and it works. Try again, and it works. Try again and... I'm suddenly paused and at the main menu. If I check the bindings and scroll to the landing gear, still shows as [joy 6] but now when I hit the button it'll give me the "P is currently set to pause, are you sure you want to change it?". Can only assume that Joystick Gremlin, which people swear by, is glitching on and off in my case.

But GREAT news on the mapping 33 and above to keyboard strokes via the firmware, I'll be off to do that for sure later today.

As to the VBK stick (which @Ashnak also points out) I've already got the deadzones for all three axis cranked up. Lo is 2.1 and Hi is (if memory serves) 3.0. The issue is actually more with rolling now - when I try to flip the ship left or right, some yaw is bleeding in. Used to be on my previous stick (also VKB - a Gladiator with the same grip) I could center a star in my reticle and keep it dead centre while rolling without any issue. Now it'll veer off to one side by an inch or so (on screen) when trying to roll before it "sort of" settles down a bit. It could be just a case of "getting used to it" but I could see it being a serious problem in combat (and great stuff for landing!).

 

[CapuchinSeven]

Deadzones.

EDIT Looks like this was addressed in an edit already.

 

[virosh]

@ubermick, are you sure you do not have Yaw into Roll setup in ED? I am not quite sure about this but it maybe the reason of your joystick strange behavior.
I currently use pedals for Yaw so my grip Yaw axis is locked. However in the past i used X52 and X55 without pedals and never had such "bleeding" during roll or pitch except in a heated battle as sometimes i would twist the grip without noticing it.

By the way, if you have some joystick testing software you can check if the issue is with the joystick itself or with some of the game settings.
Just open the software and perform straight pitch, then roll, then yaw and look at the results. If there is a faulty sensor which engages when it shouldn't it will show itself.
You can also make a video of the behavior and send it to the support as a proof that the unit is faulty.

I did something like this when the yaw sensor of my X55 Rhino started to fail and to drift even if the joystick is sitting still. After i opened a case and showed them the video they sent me a replacement grip, so this is worth a try. If the item is faulty and still covered by warranty they should replace it.

 

[Old Duck]

There's an X5.2? I'm still waiting for X4.1!

 

[ubermick]

@ubermick, are you sure you do not have Yaw into Roll setup in ED? I am not quite sure about this but it maybe the reason of your joystick strange behavior.
I currently use pedals for Yaw so my grip Yaw axis is locked. However in the past i used X52 and X55 without pedals and never had such "bleeding" during roll or pitch except in a heated battle as sometimes i would twist the grip without noticing it.

By the way, if you have some joystick testing software you can check if the issue is with the joystick itself or with some of the game settings.
Just open the software and perform straight pitch, then roll, then yaw and look at the results. If there is a faulty sensor which engages when it shouldn't it will show itself.
You can also make a video of the behavior and send it to the support as a proof that the unit is faulty.

I did something like this when the yaw sensor of my X55 Rhino started to fail and to drift even if the joystick is sitting still. After i opened a case and showed them the video they sent me a replacement grip, so this is worth a try. If the item is faulty and still covered by warranty they should replace it.

Yep. VKB's own software has axis testing in there, that translates the values numerically, along with a little slider that'll move with the value, Y axis is dead solid, I can pitch up or down all day long without anything moving on X or Z. But rolling left to right applies yaw, and yawing left or right applies roll. The overall consensus I seem to be getting from VKB is "yep, that's the way they are, they're super sensitive" but the maddening thing is that I came from a VKB Gladiator with the EXACT same grip, and it didn't have this issue once I sorted out the deadzones correctly. (Which is the first thing I did with the Gunfighter - updated to the latest firmware, recalibrated it, and applied the same deadzone settings my Gladiator had... and then bumped them up and up and up.) And like you, didn't have the issue at all on any of my X52s either.

 

[STRONTIUM DOG]

after 20+ years I think ill get another wired x box controller if this one ever dies
which I found in a skip along with the keyboard I am currently using
an it's still as responsive as the day I found it I must be extremely light fingered, though the right shift key.... my fps sprint key on the keyboard is now missing but its inner pin still works. (lefties tend to use the isolated grouped arrow keys instead of wsda for fps movement) as the mouse is in the left hand

 

[virosh]

Yep. VKB's own software has axis testing in there, that translates the values numerically, along with a little slider that'll move with the value, Y axis is dead solid, I can pitch up or down all day long without anything moving on X or Z. But rolling left to right applies yaw, and yawing left or right applies roll. The overall consensus I seem to be getting from VKB is "yep, that's the way they are, they're super sensitive" but the maddening thing is that I came from a VKB Gladiator with the EXACT same grip, and it didn't have this issue once I sorted out the deadzones correctly. (Which is the first thing I did with the Gunfighter - updated to the latest firmware, recalibrated it, and applied the same deadzone settings my Gladiator had... and then bumped them up and up and up.) And like you, didn't have the issue at all on any of my X52s either.

This should not be a normal behavior of a joystick roll and yaw axes. I still think that unit is faulty and you should continue asking their support to replace it or just ask for refund and get yourself a different one.

 

[Rardain]

I’m still running my X56 Rhino, never had any issues with it, just does it’s job

 

[Dragsham]

Me2 x56 stick n throttle.. perfect

 

[ubermick]

They removed the virtual device split option but added another in it's place - Keyboard mapping.
You can use this to workaround the ED 32 button per device limit. It will map all your buttons from 33 to 128 as a keyboard strokes. It's ugly but it works.
I use it without any issues in my setup.

EDIT: The option is in the Profile section of the config utility and can be enabled per device.

EDIT 2: Also the Virpil grip base is so precise that just a little bump or the weight of my resting hand can send my ship spinning in some direction. That is the reason deadzones exist and should be used.

Owe you a pint or five for that, Virosh. Got the keyboard mapping sorted on the throttle. It's still a bit buggy - per Virpil themselves - as it doesn't always depress the keys simultaneously when you have it set to one of the alt/ctrl/function modes. For example, even though I have one of the buttons set to deploy landing gear, and the button is recognised in the mapping as Alt-P, hitting it will occasionally also Also slightly disappointing that you can't actually specify which key goes to which function. Hopefully that'll come in future updates from Virpil.

Frontier REALLY needs to knock the 32 limit on the head, though. It's 2021 for god's sake, not 1999.

For the stick... still getting used to it. I've gone back and forth between the hard and soft space cams, settling on the hard. Same thing with springs, I've used each of the included ones (10, 20, 30, 40) and ended up with 30. That, and a substantially inflated dead zone, seems to have me at a much better place, all without repeated wrist exercises. (FWIW I'm REALLY impressed with VKB's design there, between the spring combinations, the cams, and the dry clutch, the base is SO customisable. And so is the stick itself, being able to swap out hats for buttons, or four ways for analogs. Really cool stuff.)