I think frontier may have missed the point with Q4 exploration..

[C2306]

I am concerned that exploration will now take longer, not improve $$ and not be much fun outside of known space.

Discovery scanner
There are some obvious wins with this new system, but all in all, it looks to take far longer than honk/system map/decide. Unless pay out is changed to match this longer approach, exploration will lose out in terms of time:$$.

Detailed surface scanner
Obviously, x10 more interesting than current set up. It runs into the time:$$ issue as well. Unless there are some new systems put in place for random interesting surface POI, this will be very very limited and boring for those who travel out into the black, as thargoid and guardian sites seem to be in one clump in the galaxy, chances of finding a structure out in the real black would appear to be a non thing logically.
Mapping resources in rings is cool, other than it stands to no reason. Maybe selling this data to mining outposts/companies would create more income + more immersion.
Finding different style planets rocky/gas/habitable/terraformable etc would work wonders if there was an actual reason also. Maybe science groups in the bubble have missions requesting certain finds for their own/expeditions/research.

All in all, it, from what I can see exploring will now take longer, therefore earning you less. With the added need to farm resources for probes. The idea of replacing flying with gameplay will only replace efficiency with very limited slower gameplay.

 

[Whiskey Galore]

You don't belong. What you do makes no impact. The more you put in, the less you get out. I don't have time to find the un-findable. And in finding it, I know it's going to have very little impact on the game at large.
If a boss is unplayable, it does not get played unless the dev team make it more playable. There is simply not enough minutes in the day. If you stretch a game too much, it gets thin, and then it snaps.
That so called community in elite only exists because of streamers and streaming. We get our sense of belonging from that because there is no other way to get it in elite.
Take away twitch and youtube gaming and the elite community you will find will collapse. Frontier do not bring us the community, the streamers do, and therein lies the problem, they should not.
Trying to find the un-findable, not fun. We don't have the time. It may as well not exist at all.
Giving us new ships that make old ones redundant is not the way. Improving specialist ships is the way to go. No other ship should be better than a purpose built one.
9000 hours and this is what I have to say: I'm looking for a better community experience game and I don't care if it does not look good. I'll play a sprite game if it's more entertaining. Looking good does not cut the mustard, for very long.
Instances in elite are micro games. Doing them, or not, has no impact on the game at all. You soon get bored doing them.
Quarter four will give you a bell curve: what goes up, will come back down.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...9000 hours and this is what I have to say: I'm looking for a better community experience game and I don't care if it does not look good. I'll play a sprite game if it's more entertaining. Looking good does not cut the mustard, for very long...

9000 hours spent, and now you're looking for a better community experience?

I enjoyed reading your post, but mainly for describing the contradiction inherent to Elite: Dangerous.

Complaining that a game doesn't cut mustard after 9000 hours of gameplay? Well, that doesn't really make any sense, does it?

I do agree completely however, that Frontier is VERY lucky to have such a dedicated community, that is willing to supply all the tools/narrative/content that Elite: Dangerous is so sorely lacking in-game.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...All in all, it, from what I can see exploring will now take longer, therefore earning you less. With the added need to farm resources for probes. The idea of replacing flying with gameplay will only replace efficiency with very limited slower gameplay.

You have a good point. But if the gameplay is there (finally), then "reward/motivation" can easily be restored by tweeking/increasing credit returns. No?

 

[znôrt]

the point of exploration is discovery. a proper improvement would (imo) be about more stuff to discover and more clues to do so. that's actually difficult to do so frontier just changes the scanning minigame and calls it a day. now explorers get to debate endlessly how this disrupts their respective obsessive compulsive mania.

having seen what they did to combat, or what they want to do to mining i can't really get how you would expect otherwise. a mile wide and an inch deep. but it's really cool in vr!

 

[LifesAJourney]

I am concerned that exploration will now take longer, not improve $$ and not be much fun outside of known space.

I'd rather explore 100 systems that are interesting, offer many various things to measure/discover and are able to involve me for some time, even for hours, than 10k systems I can only honk and forget after 50 seconds I'm there between jumps. So I don't mind slowing down.

Money is not a problem, either. There are no shopping centers in the black.

However, fun is my biggest concern. If there is no more fun after Q4 update than today, I'll be really disappointed...

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

If you're trying to make big money exploring then you have neither the mindset nor the heart for exploring,
Exploring is about discovery and if you want find the Thargoid/Guardian stuff it's all in one place for you to make it easy, all the news is on galnet and all the streams you like are on utoob...
I prefer to find my own things, I cannot for the life of me understand why you would want to watch somebody else showing you where everything is a and watching them play the game that you could be playing at that time.

I would far rather spend more time in a system than the 20-30 mins average it takes to scan 20-30 bodies, I like to engross myself having a drive round on a few planets that I can in a system that I've discovered, having a look around is what does it for me not counting how much I'll be worth when I get back, not seeing if I can go furthest, not visiting tourist attractions, not counting how many ELW's I can score, not tagging every star and leaving, Exploring... and I think that the 'New' scanning system might add to my enjoyment, yes perhaps there could be changes to allow for an informed decision to be made BEFORE I set about scanning or leaving, but I'd rather not have it all given to me on a plate like it is at the moment.

The only change I'd like to see if it's not already done and we've just not been told is for the rest of the masses to be registered 'white dots'* when we honk!


* as suggested by many other 'Explorers'

 

[C2306]

I disagree, maybe to you money doesn't matter, to me it does. That's my style of exploration.

As you said all the thargoid stuff is in one place. One place I don't go to discover stuff. My concerns beyond money was the fact there will be no good discoveries for the game, maybe a few little beauts for me. This update will leave exploration in the exact same place in terms of impact to the game. There will be nothing 40k Ly away that will be jaw dropping, crazy. No structures, no historical find. Just planets, planet type, resources types same as it is now.

This means the update brings nothing to the game other than a slowed down version of what is now, with less pay out due to time to discover being slowed right down.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I disagree, maybe to you money doesn't matter, to me it does. That's my style of exploration.

As you said all the thargoid stuff is in one place. One place I don't go to discover stuff. My concerns beyond money was the fact there will be no good discoveries for the game, maybe a few little beauts for me. This update will leave exploration in the exact same place in terms of impact to the game. There will be nothing 40k Ly away that will be jaw dropping, crazy. No structures, no historical find. Just planets, planet type, resources types same as it is now.

This means the update brings nothing to the game other than a slowed down version of what is now, with less pay out due to time to discover being slowed right down.

Where did you get all of this information?, I haven't heard that there will be nothing 40kly away, I also hadn't heard that there would be no historical finds or structures.
So really there will be no change... save for a longer time scanning? Oh my,
Who told you this? how can it be public knowledge when the beta date hasn't even been revealed?
I am shocked!
I'm also sad now knowing that there is nothing more to find, that there is no point continuing to play as THERE IS NOTHING TO FIND.

Should we all just walk away in support of your reveal?

 

[Iron Body]

I'd rather explore 100 systems that are interesting, offer many various things to measure/discover and are able to involve me for some time, even for hours, than 10k systems I can only honk and forget after 50 seconds I'm there between jumps. So I don't mind slowing down.

Money is not a problem, either. There are no shopping centers in the black.

However, fun is my biggest concern. If there is no more fun after Q4 update than today, I'll be really disappointed...

If you accept this slow down (if it exists) then you will hardly ever find another ELW. Which to me is what is interesting.

 

[C2306]

Where did you get all of this information?, I haven't heard that there will be nothing 40kly away, I also hadn't heard that there would be no historical finds or structures.
So really there will be no change... save for a longer time scanning? Oh my,
Who told you this? how can it be public knowledge when the beta date hasn't even been revealed?
I am shocked!
I'm also sad now knowing that there is nothing more to find, that there is no point continuing to play as THERE IS NOTHING TO FIND.

Should we all just walk away in support of your reveal?

"These will be in the form of geological, biological, and other phenomena. Some video showing a form of lightning...." Seeing the lacklustre Q1/2/3, the removal of some exciting aspects from Q4, I fail to see how this can be translated into anything other than bleh

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

"These will be in the form of geological, biological, and other phenomena. Some video showing a form of lightning...." Seeing the lacklustre Q1/2/3, the removal of some exciting aspects from Q4, I fail to see how this can be translated into anything other than bleh

I see, so really then it's a matter of what you've seen doesn't appeal to you so you conclude that there is nothing else and draw an arbitrary figure of 40kly as a number that's supposed to mean something. (do you realise just how big a space that would be? it would encompass far more stars than it would exclude, so there's no point in having a line)
Judging things that haven't been released or even discussed by ED is silly, wait until you know what you're talking about.

According to Obsidian Ant, who was recently among 17 people to take a tour of the Works, Q4 is more than Q1,2,and 3 put together, a far greater update with some content that much of the community have been begging for, and a good few surprises, added to the supposition that they weren't shown everything in the coming update.

As to the removal of some things... it happens all the time, it's just that you don't know about it!

 

[Iskariot]

I am concerned that exploration will now take longer, not improve $$ and not be much fun outside of known space.

Discovery scanner
There are some obvious wins with this new system, but all in all, it looks to take far longer than honk/system map/decide. Unless pay out is changed to match this longer approach, exploration will lose out in terms of time:$$.

Detailed surface scanner
Obviously, x10 more interesting than current set up. It runs into the time:$$ issue as well. Unless there are some new systems put in place for random interesting surface POI, this will be very very limited and boring for those who travel out into the black, as thargoid and guardian sites seem to be in one clump in the galaxy, chances of finding a structure out in the real black would appear to be a non thing logically.
Mapping resources in rings is cool, other than it stands to no reason. Maybe selling this data to mining outposts/companies would create more income + more immersion.
Finding different style planets rocky/gas/habitable/terraformable etc would work wonders if there was an actual reason also. Maybe science groups in the bubble have missions requesting certain finds for their own/expeditions/research.

All in all, it, from what I can see exploring will now take longer, therefore earning you less. With the added need to farm resources for probes. The idea of replacing flying with gameplay will only replace efficiency with very limited slower gameplay.

It might be better to wait for the release of the new features before you start complaining.
I mean... somehow that just seams more logical....

I heard from Obsidian and others who have visited Fdev that the new exploration mechanic would take a little bit more time, but in return would feel much more involved and meaningful.

From what I have seen so far I believe the new mechanics might be the answer to my exploration prayers.
I hate the brainless honking we have now. I would not mind if exploration took double the time if the mechanic that was introduced made me feel like a space explorer instead of a honking truck driver.

 

[C2306]

They release blogs so we see where they are at, what the plan is...yet I shouldn't discuss that? fanboi all you want but I'm just straight shooting what is clear. It will take longer......

Meaningful and involved? Detailed probing will give us the same results as now, just with a fancier interface, resource farm and a time dump. I draw no meaningful purpose from that, details of my findings will be listed in MY codex/encyclopedia...creating the same situation of involvement as now, my findings have no meaning. they involve no-one but me.

I fully agree that now what we have is pretty well summed up as "brainless honking", but exploration is not pointless meandering, there's always a purpose and always someone to show the exploration findings to, building the exploration data and findings into the actual game would feel like it was meaningful, or that I was involved. If my exploration was to find certain things, based upon what a group of scientists, traders, miners or even pirates were looking for, it would have meaning. Exploration in ED is currently 99.9% meaningless unless you want to join in with the thargoid/guardian clump.(which is old news).

 

[LifesAJourney]

If you accept this slow down (if it exists) then you will hardly ever find another ELW. Which to me is what is interesting.

Everyone has their own list of interesting things. I don't care about ELWs at all.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

They release blogs so we see where they are at, what the plan is...yet I shouldn't discuss that? fanboi all you want but I'm just straight shooting what is clear. It will take longer......

Meaningful and involved? Detailed probing will give us the same results as now, just with a fancier interface, resource farm and a time dump. I draw no meaningful purpose from that, details of my findings will be listed in MY codex/encyclopedia...creating the same situation of involvement as now, my findings have no meaning. they involve no-one but me.

I fully agree that now what we have is pretty well summed up as "brainless honking", but exploration is not pointless meandering, there's always a purpose and always someone to show the exploration findings to, building the exploration data and findings into the actual game would feel like it was meaningful, or that I was involved. If my exploration was to find certain things, based upon what a group of scientists, traders, miners or even pirates were looking for, it would have meaning. Exploration in ED is currently 99.9% meaningless unless you want to join in with the thargoid/guardian clump.(which is old news).

OK, you mouthing off about fanboi's serves no purpose, and you're not straight shooting you're whinging that Santa will bring you the wrong toys.

As far as I can see virtually the whole of Beyond is laying groundwork for the future of the game, now, while you can't see what's going on behind the closed doors of ED little titbits and common sense should tell you that when someone changes something it's usually for a reason, and what that reason is is behind those closed doors.

how do you know there's not going to be missions to some special systems, how do you know that there won't be missions to find a specific resource, there is talk of bringing mining and Exploration closer... how do you know how close they're gonna get.

The one thing I do know though, is, even if all your fears prove groundless upon release you'll not resurrect this thread and say... "sorry ED, I got it wrong" you'll more than likely find something else to complain about

 

[Iron Body]

Everyone has their own list of interesting things. I don't care about ELWs at all.

Ok, but interesting things are rare, and rare things take a lot of finding. Currently that means honking maybe 100 systems to find the thing you're looking for.
That takes 100 minutes at least. If it takes 5 minutes to identify whether a system contains anything on your interest list, then finding them will take 5 times longer.

Dont tell me that there will be interesting things to find in every system. That's a contradiction in terms.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Ok, but interesting things are rare, and rare things take a lot of finding. Currently that means honking maybe 100 systems to find the thing you're looking for.
That takes 100 minutes at least. If it takes 5 minutes to identify whether a system contains anything on your interest list, then finding them will take 5 times longer.

Dont tell me that there will be interesting things to find in every system. That's a contradiction in terms.

I see your point but the interesting things need not be unique, I can understand that interesting to one is boring to another but if we look at it from the point the there are going to be better formations, better lighting effects and many more 'different' things to find, almost any system has the potential to be of interest, at the moment we have the occasional pile of junk kegs and a coffin of two, sometimes a datapoint, (there used to be at least 4 kinds but of late I've only seen the one) sometimes we might find a almost complete tiny ship and that really is about it at the moment, and they seem to get less the further you go (which is reasonable) but with the addition of more types of things to find almost any system and any planet/ring/belt/and perhaps even the star itself can be the subject of interest!
thinking on, I think I remember that one of the devs mentioned that the USS/POI's would generate at system entry and remain longer... but also I think more would generate... perhaps further out in the system, though I don't know for sure.

Things are always subject to change and we won't know until later but it's happening and we can only hope it covers most of the spots.

 

[C2306]

OK, you mouthing off about fanboi's serves no purpose, and you're not straight shooting you're whinging that Santa will bring you the wrong toys.

As far as I can see virtually the whole of Beyond is laying groundwork for the future of the game, now, while you can't see what's going on behind the closed doors of ED little titbits and common sense should tell you that when someone changes something it's usually for a reason, and what that reason is is behind those closed doors.

how do you know there's not going to be missions to some special systems, how do you know that there won't be missions to find a specific resource, there is talk of bringing mining and Exploration closer... how do you know how close they're gonna get.

The one thing I do know though, is, even if all your fears prove groundless upon release you'll not resurrect this thread and say... "sorry ED, I got it wrong" you'll more than likely find something else to complain about

I've not complained before now, until I saw the exploration changes... If I'm wrong I'll happily apologize,.
As for the rest of what you said, you couldn't have sounded any more like a SC defender if you tried.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I've not complained before now, until I saw the exploration changes... If I'm wrong I'll happily apologize,.
As for the rest of what you said, you couldn't have sounded any more like a SC defender if you tried.

SC Defender?... I don't have Star Citizen! I may buy it in a couple of years if it's complete and looks good but what's Star Citizen got to do with ED?


All of what I've said in this thread amounts to "wait and see"
What's been revealed so far hasn't been everything coming in Q4 and Obsidian Ant has already indicated that it's bigger than all we've had this year... put together!