WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
If Combat Logging is a bad thing. Then why is it okay to attack a player faction without being seen?
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TheMegaTurnip
Banned
You really had to stir the pot again.
I really don't have the energy to do this again.
If you want to interact with something that is PvEvP, you should do it in Open, if for no other reason than it being permitted in PG/Solo is cutting out certain playstyles from being used in the BGS.
You may not like it, but thats the truth.
Simple as that.
I really don't have the energy to do this again.
If you want to interact with something that is PvEvP, you should do it in Open, if for no other reason than it being permitted in PG/Solo is cutting out certain playstyles from being used in the BGS.
You may not like it, but thats the truth.
Simple as that.
So an uber engineered FDL only interdicting non-combat vessels is also similar according to you?
It meets the requirements you stated.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
Actually, I think we won it in the other thread.
If I remember correctly, most people were simply stating "This is what I think, so this it shall be, End of."
Whereas, we actually made a case.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
You are missing the point here.
90% of BGS engagements are between PvE factions. (That still does'nt mean it's right to shut out the PvPers I might add)
PvE Players, despite having the opportunity, are not likely to shoot one another over a BGS change. It's that simple.
That's stating a fact. Not an opinion Ziggy. IE: Cutting certain playstyles out from being used in the BGS is not fair.
Seriously, Why do I have to repeat myself 500 times to adults.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
I find it funnier that people can tweak settings on their routers and avoid other players entirely, in OPEN mode as well
Wish I could do that in EvE!
Peer to Peer architecture my friend.
Hence why hackers in ED don't suffer any repurcussion aside from a one day ban, and videos are needed to convince frontier.
They cannot monitor client side.
No you are. Read his requirements. I replied keeping those exact requirements in mind. Which is why I specified: "according to you" and "It meets the requirements you stated.". I happen to disagree myself you see, because I do not subscribe to those requirements.
Seriously, Why do I have to repeat myself 2 times to adults.
LOL, nothing changes. I play another game for a few months and return and its still the same old arguments.
I'm going to pass on this one, had these discussions with 90skid many times. He knows all the arguments, and the horse is well and truly a greasy smear. Not sure what the point is... maybe he's trying to convince the devs to change something, make ED some sort of PvP wonderland, i don't know.
I'm going to pass on this one, had these discussions with 90skid many times. He knows all the arguments, and the horse is well and truly a greasy smear. Not sure what the point is... maybe he's trying to convince the devs to change something, make ED some sort of PvP wonderland, i don't know.
Well it's working on some level, with Powerplay being considered for open only..
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
No you are. Read his requirements. I replied keeping those exact requirements in mind. Which is why I specified: "according to you" and "It meets the requirements you stated.". I happen to disagree myself you see, because I do not subscribe to those requirements.
Seriously, Why do I have to repeat myself 2 times to adults.
I'm really not sure I am Ziggy.
Combat logging is frowned upon, because you are denying someone thier playstyle. Frontier seeing it as an exploit really has no bearing when the act is considered by the logging player as a "F you" to the person shooting at them. (Regardless of wether or not the incoming fire is legitamate or not)
BGS is essentially that same state of affairs. You are effecting another players gameplay, just via a means where (If he is a PVP player), you can simply choose to circumvent thier entire playstyle and still get your desired result. Forcing them into space trucking or doing mindless mission running to retain thier influence.
90% of the community, will not shoot you whilst you BGS in thier system, even if they could see you. However, should there be a player who deems that as an effective means of defence (Which is about the only way it can be used in the BGS), then they should be able to excersize that.
The only argument I have ever proposed regarding this issue is one of equality. IE: Making every playstyle valid within the BGS. Where as PvP is it's current state is optional in the sense that that one player can "Opt out" and force the player who wants to use that method, to play like them, despite that player being the one who is actully making the majority of hostile moves.
There in lies the issue. One player taking advantage of bias and broken game mechanics to deny another player thier chosen playstyle.
No you can't because you don't even know which kind of attack happens. So you just have to estimate which attack might happen and then do counter measures to this very attack.
Depends what the objective was.
If that's the case then putting something on any auction house in any other game with such a mechanic for one gold/credit/isk less than someone else is also PVP yet in all my years in many, many MMO's I've never heard that described as such. And if that is the case how do you counter such an action?, do you:-
A) Hunt the player down in the game world and kill him/her - zero impact on their auction house listing(s).
B) Counter said action by placing your items on the auction house cheaper than theirs - desired results.
Guess what, it's the same with the BGS, as explained below.
My opinion on the OP -
Combat logging, even through the menu - bad form.
BGS available in all modes - fine.
90's, Powderpanic and many others bleating about how they suck at snooker while wearing their boxing gloves - hilarious.
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You're right, we will call it an unfair disadvantage. While one is indeed cheating. They both allow you to accomplish the same thing. One is allowed one is not.
One is cheating. The other is clearly a disadvantage to the defender.
Nothing wrong in asking this to be addressed
If you think players that affect the BGS form solo or PG leave you at a disadvantage, then that's an easy fix: you're obviously connected to the wrong mode.
Log out, connect to solo.
Now you have the same advantage as them. Easy.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Dammit, I haven't finished repeating myself in the other thread, and now I have to repeat myself in this one too?
Too. Much. Grind.
Too. Much. Grind.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's relatively simple to narrow down the type of attack, from what I have read (written by those more conversant with the BGS than I), based on the BGS results - at which point the attack can, as I suggested, be defended against through the BGS.
I very much doubt it has anything to do with 90s arguments on the topic. More likely it comes from constructive discussions made by others or perhaps (even more likely) internal discussions at FD looking for ways to get people engaged in PP.
Anyway, recent news shows that that particular nugget is not happening any time soon, and its pretty meaningless to me anyway, since PP is one of the worst features in the game, and for me, will remain so even if it goes open only.
My only wish for that change is if it goes ahead, they remove PP NPCs from PG/solo as well as all PP effects from those modes. If they remove it, i want it to be a non-thing for PG/solo. If they don't do that, then it will probably make up my mind to move to Colonia where there are no powers, and no PP NPCs taking up spawn slots in SC, RES, and Nav Beacons... it gets bloodying annoying when looking for specific targets and every second ship is a PP ship which are worthless to me.
TheMegaTurnip
Banned
Essentially what the current system advocates, is forcing players to play in a certain manner. This is where the argument lies.
Forcing someone to play without excersizing thier chosen playstyle, in fact, circumventing it entirely (IE: Not giving them the option), is bad form.
PvP in any sort of effectivity in the BGS is only usable in a defensive manner, you cannot win at the BGS attacking in such a manner, that is only effective in PvE. (Even then, you still need folks to be commiting transations to the cause to have a decent chance of defending the system)
That should not mean that PvP is permitted to be entirely avoided via sitting in PG/Solo mode whatsoever.
This is an equality issue, if someone chooses to use PvP to defend against someone attacking thier system, then they should be able to do so. Logging into solo/PG to prevent this is along the same lines as combat logging.
"I don't agree you should be able to shoot me, so I'm going to attack your faction from Solo/PG and force you to defend in a manner to which you find vapid and boring, don't want to play ball? Then best hope other members of your faction will, or we win" That is a very bias setup if I ever did see one.
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