There's never a time when the best min-max approach to everything isn't all over the forum, there are players who do nothing but that.
If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.
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There's never a time when the best min-max approach to everything isn't all over the forum, there are players who do nothing but that.
I think you just made the best point I've read in this thread.
Means nothing. We still have no ideas about numbers.
Last skimmers mission gold Rush had tens of thousands (local traffic report) flying to the edge of the bubble, board flipping, then repeating the same simplistic act over and over for 100mil+ cr/hr.
When it went away, it was defended as fun, even engaging and skillful gameplay.
Not sure where they got the numbers, but there were claims it brought more players online than major content releases. A highly simplistic grind giving nothing but credits (or less credits and a bunch of G5 mats).
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Tens of thousands of the well over 100,000 player base is far from a majority.
Right. Not sure what that has got to do with anything.
Only FDEV know the numbers.
Like Riverside above replied, this is a fantastic response.
The problem isn't that the unlocks are "grindy," it's that the rewards do not make the activity worthwhile. Grind is just another word for repetition. But I wager most if not all of us would repeat the same activity over and over if we enjoyed the result (see: gambling, eating, procreation, etc.). This is what we see when we look at credit exploits and gold rushes. All it is is players doing the same thing FDev does as a business: seeking the highest return for the least effort. This will always be the case so long as progress is built upon obtaining ships which require credits which can only obtained thru repetitive activity.
Either the mode of progression needs to be changed or the rewards need to be sufficient to make the repetition palatable. They currently are not.
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I think it was worth it as the weapons are a lot of fun, and I enjoyed getting them. From my perspective the reward is definitely sufficient but it's all subjective.
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And therein lies the problem faced by FDev:
Balancing the effort:reward ratio for all types of players is pretty much impossible, given the disparate player types.
Some people enjoy the mechanics and feel they justify any reward.
Some people really like the rewards and don't care how much effort it takes.
Some people just want to move a progress bar, or complete a 'set' or need the reward so they can do the thng they actually enjoy.
And all of us jump from category to category depending on the reward and/or the activity.
If a stack of credits is all it takes to get the complaints to stop I'd say it's worth a try. If the rewards aren't worth it to the individual, not doing them is fine. If they are, doing a repetitive task is fine. It's the near constant complaints about every little thing that is the problem I'd like to see solved at this point.
There have been a number of good solutions proposed in this thread, but having read through it all any worthwhile feedback to FDev has been almost completely buried under innumerable complaints, self righteous demands for attention and exaggerations that the meaningful contributions are lost.
Clearly the initial puzzle is awesome.
Clearly repeating the exact same thing at the same site is going to be frustrating
Clearly having a drop rate of one when the typical expectation has become three is going to disappoint.
But
Clearly making demands isn't going to work
Clearly attempts to embarrass or shame FDev employees is reprehensible
Clearly open hostility towards other players actually saying how much work is actually involved without putting the effort in to verify or dispute those claims is ridiculous.
All it needs is a relatively small re-balance, as has happened lots of times before. It's much easier to start hard & make it more accessible later (as was the case with Engineers for example) than to start too easy & have to make it harder.
How this thread reached 97 pages is beyond me.
Numbers without context are virtually worthless. That's the folly of relying solely on the metrics; they can tell you how many people are doing what and for how long, but they can't tell you if people are actually enjoying themselves. That's a metric they can only get from communicating with their players.
Indeed. No doubt there's room for balancing here.
Well I've just spent the weekend and tonight getting 16 module blueprints and 4 weapon blueprints and I have to say I really enjoyed doing it and found it to be a lot of fun. So much so that I have now decided to get all of the Guardian weapons and modules on offer at the moment whereas before I wasn't planning to.
However, I won't do it all at once as that's not my style of playing as I prefer to break up my activities with different ones.
I may even on occasion head out to the Guardian structures to do the activity even after unlocking everything because I do find it fun.
It takes me on average about 30-45 minutes per site as I don't try to rush it, instead I just enjoy the experience, shooting all the sentinels and collecting all the data and Guardian materials. Also, I never re-logged at a site (I've never liked re-logging or board flipping), instead I flew to a different one after getting a blueprint, fully scanning systems along the way.
So sorry, but I do really enjoy the Guardian mechanic. Just be thankful I'm not the one doing the streaming though as you would get bored watching me before I got bored of doing the activity.
However, I won't do it all at once as that's not my style of playing as I prefer to break up my activities with different ones.
I may even on occasion head out to the Guardian structures to do the activity even after unlocking everything because I do find it fun.
It takes me on average about 30-45 minutes per site as I don't try to rush it, instead I just enjoy the experience, shooting all the sentinels and collecting all the data and Guardian materials. Also, I never re-logged at a site (I've never liked re-logging or board flipping), instead I flew to a different one after getting a blueprint, fully scanning systems along the way.
So sorry, but I do really enjoy the Guardian mechanic. Just be thankful I'm not the one doing the streaming though as you would get bored watching me before I got bored of doing the activity.
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Yes, yes I would.
If I had evidence to back up such a claim then yes I'd provide it, in the hopes of showing that the grind actually wasn't so bad.
My hunch is that the devs aren't ignoring it due to the tone, they are ignoring it because the premise is correct and they do not have a positive way to spin it.
I also believe you won't post your logs because, similarly, they wouldn't support your premise that the content is not as grindy as the majority claims it to be. You say it isn't so bad yet are reluctant to supply the proof you actually have to support your claim, so either you are being uncooperative just to spite everyone, or your position is not as sure footed as you would like it to be.
Good day, comrade.
If it's five hours highly optimized minmax grind then it's bad, really, really bad! I can play Firewatch from start to finish in that time. Or get any 4x campaign running. 5 hours is a long time. More even if spend on 100% painful grind. I bet even if he manged it in 5 hours it's anything but the 'immersive' way to play the game.
Agreed,its a simple fix. No need to comment here,make the change,announce it and move on. But theres nothing at all from FDev.
Why should anyone report bugs or beta test or give feedback to a company who wont do the same for its community?
Feed back works both ways.
But all we get is radio silence on the issue
Can anynody quote where all these hostile posts about the devs are? Ive been keeping an eye on the thread and im not really seeing it. Yet im connstantly seeing people say it has happened but not a single one has quoted the offending comments as far as i can see.
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