If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[shabbyj]

It does have that magic and so much more.

Next thread...

Ditto, it has it in spades.

 

[Sztripi]

My thinking is that some people are having a hard time with the game because it's TOO realistic. The story is there, it's up to you to interact with it or not. Let's compare a slave revolt in this game with a real life analogue. Say you're sitting at home watching TV, and the news comes on telling you about a rebellion in... let's say Switzerland. You have a few options. You can go to Switzerland and fight for either side, you can go and run supplies, you can go and provide relief, or you can stay at home, do your normal thing, and watch it all unfold on the news. Maybe you want to get involved directly, but you can't afford to go there. Maybe you have better things to do. Maybe you just aren't motivated enough one way or the other about the conflict. Perhaps you'll make a fortune in the arms market, legally or otherwise.

Now let's say you're docked at Aulin or someplace, and you see a story about a revolt of some sort on galnet. You can fly there and fight for either side, you can run supplies, you can engage in some profiteering, etc. etc., or you can do your normal thing and watch it unfold on galnet.

Now I understand why this could upset some people. They want the full fantasy treatment where they are thrust into a grand story and are free from the mundane aspects of everyday life. But to my understanding, ED has never claimed or tried to be anything other than it is. A sandbox. A game with TRUE freedom to do whatever you want. But I think that some of the more mundane things in the game, the routine, the inability to participate due to funds, and so forth are necessary in order to give us that level of freedom AND realism. Sure, they could make it so that anytime you want to participate in that far away revolt you can. Maybe they loan you a ship, or transport you in the blink of an eye. But then you lose that aspect of realism. That sense that this is an actual universe. Then it's just another video game.

I think Frontier hit the nail on the head... for the type of game they set out to make. I personally love it. When I play I get a sense of "this is real life, just in the future and I'm a space pilot". But I also get why that doesn't appeal to everyone. People tend not to want RealLife 2.0 when they play games.

Sorry for the late post. I had a "voluntary" marathon work session.

Everything you have said is NOT true.

Lets start at the beginning. Taking your example for instance.

NO you can not travel to Switzerland. The borders would be closed. Regular trains would not run. You may attempt to cross the border illegally but it is very risky move. You may even be stopped by the neighboring countries and prevent you to travel there. Then even if you would be able to enter the country you would see destroyed cities, you may even not be able to reach the nearest town under the control of you allies. Not to mention the front lines would move dynamically. One side would become more and more frantic as they would loose more and more ground. Martial law would be in effect. You may see things that are not pleasant to see (I know been NEAR actual war zone - unfortunately - luckily not inside, but close enough). The social fabric would be breaking down, and violence would be rampart, or you could see unusual acts of kindness as well.

NOT A SINGLE OF THAT HAPPENS IN THE GAME. The first problem is that war does not feel different form peace in the game due to the complete disregard for life - stations casually destroying vessels for instance, or the security forces acting as thugs, or most importantly due to the fact that pirates operate EVERYWHERE. I was attacked several times in SOL (so much for the Federation NAVY). Second the station inside the war zone operates exactly the same as in peace. No danger there. It is normal. Third the war is constrained to war zones only. How nice is that the warring factions have decided to fight at predetermined places. WAR FEELS EXACTLY THE SAME AS PEACE.

Just imagine the following. If in peaceful regions there would be much more tolerance for minor offenses but more consequences for violent behavior. For instance the security forces would try to capture you instead destroying you. If for instance you would be just punished not destroyed for minor offenses (it could be serious punishment - monetary of here's an idea: how about forcefully being drafted into the navy).

Now you come to a war zone. The station announcer would warn everybody like:
"NOTICE THE STATION IS UNDER MARTIAL LAW." Or you wold be forced to wait for a few minutes not allowed to enter the station until scanned, or have to wait for a navy shipment to pass out. Just looking at it would be glorious. By the way here you have some chance for mischief as well. Then you witness the station batteries open fire on one of the ships. It would be rare it would be TERRIFYING (now: bah seen it 8 times while docked at Mars station in 15 minutes).
The battles would rage all across the system not at predetermined sites. Even the station itself may come under attack. Imagine taking off and trying to leave the station as you see a desperate battle raging outside. Parts of the station burning. The front lines wold be moving and you could see who is loosing or winning. You could listen to the news in the station lying about the war - you would know - you are coming from outside. Then when somewhere there is a war it would feel like a war.

YOU would be instantly there.

As it is standing now it is all a background. That is. Really nothing changes. The war raged and raged and suddenly the slaves were defeated? Why? What changed? I have seen nothing different before their defeat. I even witnessed the - Elizabeth was it? - forced to retreat. Nothing changed before their defeat...

And to make things clear I am not railing against violence in the game. Quite the contrary. You can do the most depraved and evil things in the game and it would be just Wednesday - as it stand at the moment. IF on the other hand violence would be much much more rarer... Then it would be also more fun. Naturally again I am talking about NPC - s. No need to limit the players.

Well that is it.

 

[Snakebite]

that's the whole problem with ED, its a nicer looking clone of the originals. There really is not much more depth to it then those. Those are great games because they have an excuse they are run on computers from the 80- early 90s. In the 80s and early 90s Elite was awsome, of course Commodore games were still sold in the software section of stores, we didn't have much better.

Here in 2015 there could be so much more depth to the world, i really cant see any reason to play this over the original other then graphics. Game really needs some depth , and immersion for it to be fun.

Agree 100%. Apart from the eye candy I find ED to be a step backwards from FFE.
At Least FFE had Thargoids, and cities, and more ships, and planetary landings, and mining machines, and better missions, and people that greated you when you docked at a station (loved those vids) and it deeper plot lines (in the Journals).

Ed does have a much better look, and the combat is superior, but yes, its lacking depth, it currently feels like we're trying to swim in this vast ocean buts its about as deep as a puddle so we are just flapping around pointlessly....

 

[Erroll]

It needs the year to be 1986.

 

[Mikey2305]

It needs a creche, and a neighbourhood watch scheme, and help for the elderly. And something for the disabled. Oh and ethnic minorities and those with different religious and political persuasions. Then it will have that magic and purpose and depth that we all desperately long for...

 

[Chazzie]

Stop the pointless arbitrary NPC number-juggling and give power to the players. Add player-driven manufacturing and trading. Allow players to build stations and claim systems, form corporations and alliances, issue missions and bounties. That's the "EVE" way of doing it, and honestly, I don't really see any other way. I can't imagine how this game could become an interesting single-player experience, there's only so much you can do interacting with only NPCs. I personally wouldn't mind ED being singleplayer-oriented, but I really can't see how this game can become good without player interaction.

Or even better - go play EVE and let Elite be Elite.

In my opinion, all Elite needs is better player comms, wings and missions that are enjoyable to play in a group or solo mode.

 

[Sztripi]

It needs a creche, and a neighbourhood watch scheme, and help for the elderly. And something for the disabled. Oh and ethnic minorities and those with different religious and political persuasions. Then it will have that magic and purpose and depth that we all desperately long for...

You might be onto something.

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Or even better - go play EVE and let Elite be Elite.

In my opinion, all Elite needs is better player comms, wings and mission that are enjoyable to play in a group or solo mode.

That would be an improvement.

 

[keila1]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87875 this pretty much .

 

[Snakebite]

My thinking is that some people are having a hard time with the game because it's TOO realistic. The story is there, it's up to you to interact with it or not. Let's compare a slave revolt in this game with a real life analogue. Say you're sitting at home watching TV, and the news comes on telling you about a rebellion in... let's say Switzerland. You have a few options. You can go to Switzerland and fight for either side, you can go and run supplies, you can go and provide relief, or you can stay at home, do your normal thing, and watch it all unfold on the news. Maybe you want to get involved directly, but you can't afford to go there. Maybe you have better things to do. Maybe you just aren't motivated enough one way or the other about the conflict. Perhaps you'll make a fortune in the arms market, legally or otherwise.

Now let's say you're docked at Aulin or someplace, and you see a story about a revolt of some sort on galnet. You can fly there and fight for either side, you can run supplies, you can engage in some profiteering, etc. etc., or you can do your normal thing and watch it unfold on galnet.

Now I understand why this could upset some people. They want the full fantasy treatment where they are thrust into a grand story and are free from the mundane aspects of everyday life. But to my understanding, ED has never claimed or tried to be anything other than it is. A sandbox. A game with TRUE freedom to do whatever you want. But I think that some of the more mundane things in the game, the routine, the inability to participate due to funds, and so forth are necessary in order to give us that level of freedom AND realism. Sure, they could make it so that anytime you want to participate in that far away revolt you can. Maybe they loan you a ship, or transport you in the blink of an eye. But then you lose that aspect of realism. That sense that this is an actual universe. Then it's just another video game.

I think Frontier hit the nail on the head... for the type of game they set out to make. I personally love it. When I play I get a sense of "this is real life, just in the future and I'm a space pilot". But I also get why that doesn't appeal to everyone. People tend not to want RealLife 2.0 when they play games.

Great post, and for me all I have ever wanted was real life MK II set in the future with me owning a spaceship. From that perspective Elite is the perfect game....

 

[Sztripi]

Great post, and for me all I have ever wanted was real life MK II set in the future with me owning a spaceship. From that perspective Elite is the perfect game....

Me too. But the problem is that ED does not deliver. At least not in the feeling of real life.

 

[flibberflops]

I hate these threads. Not because I disagree with the content, because there are some really good points that have been made and they will be sadly lost in the sea of other comments.

For my mind, the issue of E sparkle is simple. I think its trying to please everyone and hence failing virtually anyone.

Let me explain...

Back in the previous Elite games life was simple. They were single player games which were generally Marmite moments. You either loved the game or pretty much didn't get on with it.

Now the world is very different. You now have two extremes of game players. Those facebook loving extroverts who love the interaction of other people and those locked away traditional geeks who would quite like the rest of the world to go away and leave them alone. Both have completely different gaming needs.

In other modern games there has been an effort to either make a game that suits one particular type of need (e.g. world of warcraft) or instead make a game that has 2 different styles of game in one (e.g. Call of Duty... Story Single player & run around shooting each other).

I think the problem is that E is an identical game in Solo or Mulitplayer and it seems to be struggling to keep both camps happy.

Many people have come up with some good ideas to repair things in this thread but essentially the ideas would only fix things for their personal preferance of play. The same suggestions would alienate other styles and indeed you can see it has by some of the reations to those suggestion.

For my mind, E could do with splitting into several variations of the same game. For example....

The Kick Butt: This is the person who likes to dogfight. This persons world loves the multiplayer experience. They probably don't like the fact that some nerd can spend half their life on E to upgrade ship and weapons to make them far superior. They would prefer a enviroment where upgrades are limited and play is fairly even. They also are not interested in massive maps... they want a small restricted enviroment packed full of other players

The Megalomaniac: This person is much like a Kick Butt. They also want small enviroments full of players. However they do want upgrades. They want power and they want people to behold their power and money.

The Geek: Wants adventure and solitude. This person wants to play solo on a huge map. The want to start on the billionth planet away from anyone else. They proably want a rubbish ship that constantly needs repair to get anywhere.

The reader: This play wants a story. They care what the latest gossip is and whats kicking off in the federation.

I could go on, but you get the point.

E has been made to try and please all those people in one game. I think in essance it is impossible to do this in one game style.

But then again, As Harry Callahan once said. "Opinions are like....."

 

[Sztripi]

I hate these threads. Not because I disagree with the content, because there are some really good points that have been made and they will be sadly lost in the sea of other comments.

For my mind, the issue of E sparkle is simple. I think its trying to please everyone and hence failing virtually anyone.

Let me explain...

Back in the previous Elite games life was simple. They were single player games which were generally Marmite moments. You either loved the game or pretty much didn't get on with it.

Now the world is very different. You now have two extremes of game players. Those facebook loving extroverts who love the interaction of other people and those locked away traditional geeks who would quite like the rest of the world to go away and leave them alone. Both have completely different gaming needs.

In other modern games there has been an effort to either make a game that suits one particular type of need (e.g. world of warcraft) or instead make a game that has 2 different styles of game in one (e.g. Call of Duty... Story Single player & run around shooting each other).

I think the problem is that E is an identical game in Solo or Mulitplayer and it seems to be struggling to keep both camps happy.

Many people have come up with some good ideas to repair things in this thread but essentially the ideas would only fix things for their personal preferance of play. The same suggestions would alienate other styles and indeed you can see it has by some of the reations to those suggestion.

For my mind, E could do with splitting into several variations of the same game. For example....

The Kick Butt: This is the person who likes to dogfight. This persons world loves the multiplayer experience. They probably don't like the fact that some nerd can spend half their life on E to upgrade ship and weapons to make them far superior. They would prefer a enviroment where upgrades are limited and play is fairly even. They also are not interested in massive maps... they want a small restricted enviroment packed full of other players

The Megalomaniac: This person is much like a Kick Butt. They also want small enviroments full of players. However they do want upgrades. They want power and they want people to behold their power and money.

The Geek: Wants adventure and solitude. This person wants to play solo on a huge map. The want to start on the billionth planet away from anyone else. They proably want a rubbish ship that constantly needs repair to get anywhere.

The reader: This play wants a story. They care what the latest gossip is and whats kicking off in the federation.

I could go on, but you get the point.

E has been made to try and please all those people in one game. I think in essance it is impossible to do this in one game style.

But then again, As Harry Callahan once said. "Opinions are like....."

You haven't been reading the posts, have you?

It is not about that. It is that the world, the universe is empty. The game lacks the "spark". If you are seriously interested check earlier posts you will see beautifully explained by people more capable than me.

 

[Sztripi]

On second thought you are on something, but it is not the scope of this discussion.

 

[Dzhulian]

This!

I cannot see how this is any worse than FFE that I played for hours on end. There are certainly things that I miss: multiple newspapers with their own angle on news stories and planetary landings, but I think both of those are pretty much on the "upcoming" list, so I am not worried at all.

The journals! Yes! I'd forgotten -they really need to work on that immersion with more stuff like that.

I think half the problem with games these days is that people can communicate so easily on forums like these that the magic goes -it's not you exploring a wonderful world but a feeling that you're just another person joining a group of people, most of whom have already done a load more than you. A bit like watching a popular season show after everyone else -I thought Breaking Bad was naff, but perhaps being about three years late was a big factor.

This game will be fine -planetary landing, better missions and some more ships will make a big difference. Definitely agree on the Frontier assassination thing -they should make that change asap.

 

[flibberflops]

You haven't been reading the posts, have you?

It is not about that. It is that the world, the universe is empty. The game lacks the "spark". If you are seriously interested check earlier posts you will see beautifully explained by people more capable than me.

I did read the other posts... and as I said, there have been some great ideas.

However, the point I have been trying to make is that what may add the "spark" to you will alienate other people. What you are looking for is impossible. You cannot please everyone... unless you have different games modes that are drastically different to the current solo and multiplayer mode.

 

[Dissentient]

Or even better - go play EVE and let Elite be Elite.

In my opinion, all Elite needs is better player comms, wings and missions that are enjoyable to play in a group or solo mode.

And what's so un-elite about features I suggested? They almost don't interfere with people who don't want to use them.

 

[RedMcG]

I cannot see how this is any worse than FFE that I played for hours on end. There are certainly things that I miss: multiple newspapers with their own angle on news stories and planetary landings, but I think both of those are pretty much on the "upcoming" list, so I am not worried at all.

Agreed - a great number of the requested features do appear to be coming. And it will be great when they get here!

But for me - one of the most obvious things missing from the game at the moment is 'culture'.

I read somewhere a post that said this game was like GTA V - but you can't get out of the car. I thought that was a decent comparison but since then I've been thinking about several things in GTA V that added 'culture' and could work in E: D (I know this sounds stupid but please humour me).

In FFE they had multiple newspapers - in GTA V they had radio stations and breaking news. In E: D - I think the characters in the Galnet news would have a lot more depth with voice actors and an animated broadcast. It would give an opportunity to design interiors and costumes based on local culture and make the characters a bit more recognisable than just a name. They could also have multiple news broadcasts with their obvious slants based on allegiance (i.e. Imperial News vs Federal News). Even adding an image to the articles within the Galnet news could help.

In GTA V you would get Hollywood wannabes in the city, trailer trash in the desert and beach bums along the coast. In E: D they could make the stations and craft that inhabit them noticeably different based on allegiance and/or economy. This would extend past the station exteriors when the time comes that we can step out of the ship.

There was a lot of mini-games in GTA V too - and Braben has already talked about big game hunting when planetary landings arrives - so they're already potentially thinking along those lines.

But all that development takes time and I'm just adding to the very long list of suggestions already made in the thousands of posts in these forums.

Realistically - whilst culture (for me) is sorely missing from the game - there are probably several other features/fixes needed first. But at the moment the game doesn't feature even a single face.

I'm enjoying the game at the moment - but it does feel bare bones. But the number of features developed over the last 12 months was amazing! So if that progress continues - I'm really looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in another 12 months.

 

[Sztripi]

Agreed - a great number of the requested features do appear to be coming. And it will be great when they get here!

But for me - one of the most obvious things missing from the game at the moment is 'culture'.

I read somewhere a post that said this game was like GTA V - but you can't get out of the car. I thought that was a decent comparison but since then I've been thinking about several things in GTA V that added 'culture' and could work in E: D (I know this sounds stupid but please humour me).

In FFE they had multiple newspapers - in GTA V they had radio stations and breaking news. In E: D - I think the characters in the Galnet news would have a lot more depth with voice actors and an animated broadcast. It would give an opportunity to design interiors and costumes based on local culture and make the characters a bit more recognisable than just a name. They could also have multiple news broadcasts with their obvious slants based on allegiance (i.e. Imperial News vs Federal News). Even adding an image to the articles within the Galnet news could help.

In GTA V you would get Hollywood wannabes in the city, trailer trash in the desert and beach bums along the coast. In E: D they could make the stations and craft that inhabit them noticeably different based on allegiance and/or economy. This would extend past the station exteriors when the time comes that we can step out of the ship.

There was a lot of mini-games in GTA V too - and Braben has already talked about big game hunting when planetary landings arrives - so they're already potentially thinking along those lines.

But all that development takes time and I'm just adding to the very long list of suggestions already made in the thousands of posts in these forums.

Realistically - whilst culture (for me) is sorely missing from the game - there are probably several other features/fixes needed first. But at the moment the game doesn't feature even a single face.

I'm enjoying the game at the moment - but it does feel bare bones. But the number of features developed over the last 12 months was amazing! So if that progress continues - I'm really looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in another 12 months.

You are right of course. I absolutely agree. These features are desperately missing.

On the other hand: Do you know what is the main difference you have not stated between GTA and Elite? The lack of endless violence in GTA. Sure you can be a depraved murderer in both. In GTA however it will be memorable, due to the reactions of the NPC-s. In Elite if you are a psychopathic murderer it is just Wednesday. Everybody is killing everybody, so if you kill it's nothing special. At least this is how I see it.

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I did read the other posts... and as I said, there have been some great ideas.

However, the point I have been trying to make is that what may add the "spark" to you will alienate other people. What you are looking for is impossible. You cannot please everyone... unless you have different games modes that are drastically different to the current solo and multiplayer mode.

Would I alienate anybody if there are ground personnel visible inside the station? Would it alienate anybody if some stations are run down inside?

But on the whole I do understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[DarthLuca]

For me (I know I've said it before), what it needs to be what I want is planetary landings. Until then, better missions and passenger missions will hopefully help the waiting. . .

 

[Sztripi]

For me (I know I've said it before), what it needs to be what I want is planetary landings. Until then, better missions and passenger missions will hopefully help the waiting. . .

You have been playing the game I guess....

Tell me what do you estimate is the chance for survival for a family traveling from one planet to another? What do you think? You have seen the starlanes no? Would you gamble your families life in this universe? Just interested on your opinion on passenger missions.