Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking

Sometimes I patrol deciat or Todd etc. In a ship that can hold it's own with any pvper. To date I've only encountered lower level pvpers who ran off once hull was knackered. But they didn't combat log or block. I only attacked em cos they was flagged.
I did note one of em and checked inara.
Wow...his ships not well built. Maybe he/she was ganker idk I'm in VR I don't chat in-game text.
I've yet to find a defined ganker. Am l missing something? Are they decked in a certain way? Or is low gear an indication?
 
Even in pirating and Powerplay - just as any player can shoot at anything they like, even if to do so may seem unsporting (due to massive advantage), any player can block any other player or leave the game when they want, even if to do so may seem unsporting - the game places no limits on use.
Don't get me started on NPC piracy, which has been stealth nerfed into oblivion ...
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
And yet, when you are in Open only players have the hauls that actually matter. Plus, a player consciously logs into Open for a reason, and that is interaction. If they don't want interaction, why are they there?
For interactions they want, not for interactions they don't want - it's their choice when to leave Open just as it was their choice to select Open at the start of the game session.

Other players have no "right" to the contents of a player's hold.
Again, you log into Open for a reason, interaction and greater risk. But, when that risk gets too much you pull the plug or block you deny the valid opposition of a 'win' (denying merits, space, time).
With the lack of game provided information relating to Private Groups (and an Open-PvE game mode), players who want to play socially only (initially at least) have Open. Some players may log in to Open for social interactions - with the downside of other players attacking.
Its not a matter of something requiring PvP, its actually making the PvP meaningful when it happens. If people break the game loop and there is no valid conclusion, thats not a game, its just random events.
PvP was expected to be "rare and meaningful" - however the outcome seems to be "common and (often) meaningless).

As DBOBE said in one stream, "it takes two to tango" - and if only the attacker wants to engage in PvP then it won't be much of a tango.
Its like playing a game of football and blocking people who tackle you- is that football? The same is true for Powerplay, if you are caught and are about to lose merits that should be a win, and yet you can win even when you lose. The same for piracy- you lost should have no more options but to give the cargo- but instead you remove yourself and you win by trading the full amount.

Thats not a game for anyone.
As DBOBE agreed, when asked, in the Engineers launch stream - "it's not sold as a PvP game".
 
Above post yeah agree...damn shame cos it's fun having a hold of ltds in solo pg wotever and having the same sweaty I wanna get there in one piece thing....miss that
 
Ganking is wrong..if by it's definition it's picking on those who are not able to fight back...totally agree it's wrong.
And yet their here doing it.... cos like combat logging they can..
Broken mechanics let's address em

Ganking is an in-game/in-character action performed by CMDRs against CMDRs. There is no rule that says anyone has to play a character with a certain moral or ethical outlook, or that even begins to suggest that in-character encounters need to be fair.

Certainly, ganking can, in some rare cases, cross the line into player on player harrassment, or the unintended exploitation of flawed mechanisms, but this is not at all implied by 'picking on those who are not able to fight back' in the context of in-game characters.

Combat logging is fundamentally an out-of-character behavior performed by a player against the game as a whole.

And yet the suggestion is being made that gankers can do as they wish and it's up to the targets to alter their game style to account for it.

Because, by and large, anyone can have their CMDRs attempt to do as they wish.

Same thing.

An utterly absurd assertion.

The bit quote above.

Ganking does not imply harassment of other players.
 
Or at least detected and punished, IF it is out of the context of the game, and that is the underlying issue.

Has never worked in any game ever. In fact the griefers tend to find ways to use the punishment system against people.

The reason is that the griefer is not looking for an in-game outcome. Their desired outcome is to ruin another player's fun, because that's how they get their fun.

If they're not interested in an in-game outcome, in-game consequences will never deter them.

That's why all the chuntering about LEO response that follow players between systems doesn't matter. The gankers would just accept that as the price of screwing with other players, but for them being able to ruin someone else's time would be worth the "price of admission". It's why no game has ever solved this with in-game consequences.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
"If you are detected ganking you will be banned for 30 days" - would be a pretty effective after the fact.
Yet again, it's about the consequences
Attacking other players is within the rules - regardless of disparity in player skill, ship, loadout, engineering, etc..

Banning players for playing the game is unlikely to happen.

.... and banning the attacker does not change the outcome for the destroyed target.
 
and some of those people are players that no-one should have to play with.
You can't get much more judgemental than that .. please remember that in game gankers are probably not in-life equivalents.
I have no interest in ganking, but at the same time Elite 'Dangerous' needs gankers to provide that extra spark that the solo mode lacks entirely. Those that want peace and quiet have solo mode. If ganking extends to griefing i.e. following someone around to ruin their gaming experience then I agree it's not acceptable.
 
I hear you.
But the game in open is deserted cos their afraid to lose a ship and or it's load.
That's it!
Gankers In my view are those that intentionally pick on weaker players not for piracy or a bounty...but just cos they can outgun the victim. This is not what all pvpers are like... far from it.
Dunno what percentages reflect the ratio of gankers to pvpers but unfortunately gankers get the press.
That's a fact.
Wish there was in-game name and shame or some sort of unity for retributive style play but there isnt

Brainwave
How about the game clocking these fiends and after say their 5th gank..they appear as yellow on our scanner?
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
You can't get much more judgemental than that .. please remember that in game gankers are probably not in-life equivalents.
I have no interest in ganking, but at the same time Elite 'Dangerous' needs gankers to provide that extra spark that the solo mode lacks entirely. Those that want peace and quiet have solo mode. If ganking extends to griefing i.e. following someone around to ruin their gaming experience then I agree it's not acceptable.
I wasn't referring to any particular play-style.

Not everyone agrees that the game "needs" gankers - no matter how much they like to try to persuade other players that they're "providing a valuable service".
 
Detection and punishment is an "after the fact" response - it does not stop ganking from occurring.
That's a short-sighted way of looking at it: if there were serious consequences to ganking even if the victim is killed in the first instance (perhaps more so in the high security areas) ganking would reduce, just like in real life.
 
Attacking other players is within the rules - regardless of disparity in player skill, ship, loadout, engineering, etc..
Yes of course, as I said above , detecting the context is the problem


.... and banning the attacker does not change the outcome for the destroyed target.
Much in the same way going to jail for murder doesn't help the victim, but it goes a long way to stopping most people from being murders
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
That's a short-sighted way of looking at it: if there were serious consequences to ganking even if the victim is killed in the first instance (perhaps more so in the high security areas) ganking would reduce, just like in real life.
Not really - a destroyed rebuy (and loss of anything not covered by the rebuy) is a rebuy - regardless of the outcome for the attacker. There are those who don't care about what happens to them as long as they can spoil someone else's game.

As mentioned earlier, ganking isn't against the game rules - so I don't expect that players would be severely punished for engaging in it - especially in a game where players don't need to play with them

That players still gank in high-sec in EvE indicates that a deterrent is merely another challenge to some players and does little to deter their actions.
 
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