You're so delusional it's breath taking, Maggie. I think this game might be too much for you.
Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking
- Thread starter Hole in Head
- Start date
Quite a scholarly article here, clearly there is a fair amount of debate on the subject but there is compelling research
Are “Gamers” More Likely to be “Bullies”? - Cyberbullying Research Center
Research suggests that teens who prefer violent video games and play them many hours each day are more likely to bully others.
cyberbullying.org
Oh, I see what happened here. It was me not expressing myself clearly, something which happens rather a lot
When I said "without consequences whatsoever" I meant consequences to the griefer/bully in game, not the victim. There's absolutely no doubt that online bullying can have quite severe consequences IRL to the victims.
Quite a scholarly article here, clearly there is a fair amount of debate on the subject but there is compelling research
Are “Gamers” More Likely to be “Bullies”? - Cyberbullying Research Center
Research suggests that teens who prefer violent video games and play them many hours each day are more likely to bully others.
I'm genuinely curious what you think the consequences of gankers in Elite areOh, I see what happened here. It was me not expressing myself clearly, something which happens rather a lot
When I said "without consequences whatsoever" I meant consequences to the griefer/bully in game, not the victim. There's absolutely no doubt that online bullying can have quite severe consequences IRL to the victims.
IRL? Very little except, I suppose, in very isolated cases and, by the way, I tend to make a big difference between griefers and gankers. They're not the same. If a particular player is being endlessly salt mined by a griefer, though, I suspect it might at the very least make it so that player never plays in Open again or just throws the game out, neither of which option helps with making Open more lively.
My only angle on consequences were in game, where even the worst murder hobo has little to no reason to fear system security or any other in game inconveniences. C&P is a joke at the moment.
The PvP aspect of this game seems like a side note - two fully engineered ships being flown in oblong circles taking volleys at one another until one either HWs or dies. Then they do it again, and again. Then they switch ships to another build and they do it again.
It's interesting to watch two pros go at it, but otherwise it's just annoying.
It's interesting to watch two pros go at it, but otherwise it's just annoying.
You should give it a try some time, it's actually a lot of fun and big wing battles are amazing.
You stated it as a fact, that everyone interested in pvp in open is a ganker, wich obviously is wrong. The vast majority of people (not all) i know are not into ganking. Also: a Ganker is not necessarily a Jerk.
The OP clearly is about how to make pvp better and more meaningful in this game, so I'd find it more constructive to give ideas or opinions on that matter. But many people rather make statements about how gankers are jerks and pvpers are a minority (how do they know by the way?) anyway. Along with some ridiculous comments like "boxing is also not a part of the game" or "why don't you ask for helicopter gunships in eso." PvP IS part of the game. Thousands of people are interested in it. I take offense by "them" making fun of my wishes and acting like what "they" want this game to be like is worth more than what I (or others) want. Not talking about you personally.
Anyway. Id be interested in your ideas for a better and more meaningful pvp in this game. Do you have any?
Social media = 19.2 according to your own numbers
Edit: oh and I hope we don't need to discuss that ganking is not bullying.
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Sorry my mistake
That's quite a passive aggressive response.
Ganking could be viewed as bullying, depending on definitions however that wasn't the subject of my post rather just pointing out that online behaviour does have real-world implications.
@Sir Ganksalot
You need to come out of that place you hide in. I was trying to track you down yesterday but you kept jumpin around, which was pretty annoying as I was in a ship with no scoop and a crappy jump range. Y'all need to stand still so I can kill ya. Probably don't have time today, but maybe we should just find a place and do high noon.
@Everybody else
Just out of curiosity: I know what salt mining is, but why? I'm serious about that question. I do not understand why, and I would like to know why some of you salt mine. I'm not necessarily being salty here, I'm just curious. I might miss out on something. Is it just something you do because it's "fun", or is it something else?
You need to come out of that place you hide in. I was trying to track you down yesterday but you kept jumpin around, which was pretty annoying as I was in a ship with no scoop and a crappy jump range. Y'all need to stand still so I can kill ya. Probably don't have time today, but maybe we should just find a place and do high noon.
@Everybody else
Just out of curiosity: I know what salt mining is, but why? I'm serious about that question. I do not understand why, and I would like to know why some of you salt mine. I'm not necessarily being salty here, I'm just curious. I might miss out on something. Is it just something you do because it's "fun", or is it something else?
I was with you until the last line. "Exploit" doesn't mean "doing something I don't like".
But thats the driver of the problem, if people have a get out clause it will shape how they react- if you knew you had no other choice than to give in and drop cargo, or fight / flee you'd change how you play the game. As it stands in Open people can get out of any situation to the detriment of building a cohesive ecosystem. By having solo, logging etc people don't change habits (build better, fly better, learn, team up).
should be locked into your gametime as a consequence of making a mistake, otherwise whats the point? You don't learn or improve, or challenge yourself to overcome.
'Exploit' is probably not the word I'd use, but its close to it- logging is an ejection handle that is too indiscriminate, used by people who don't fully grasp what Open is, and are unwilling to be content for others (just as they are content for you). People play along until its "nope!", so the pirate gets nothing and the trader gets away destroying the building blocks of an Open ecosystem.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There was one notable PvP proponent who insisted that high-waking out of combat was an exploit....
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Why should players who don't enjoy PvP interactions be required to play the game as "one of the herd" for others to attack / defend, if they don't find that to be "fun"?
An ecosystem has apex predators - and, quite often, parasites....
Why are they in Open then? By its nature Open enables PvP encounters- both good and bad. If you don't want to be 'the herd' either build a ship to survive, use another mode.
Behaving like a victim makes you a victim, building stupid ships and being ignorant of your location and individuals around you is not playing the game correctly. Its just you lulling yourself into false security and hoping for the best.
Until FD change the blurb to say otherwise, Open is always about the potential for bad encounters to happen.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I was referring to this bit specifically: "to the detriment of building a cohesive ecosystem" - it seems that some who like to prey on players would like for there to be more players to protect and attack, i.e. the ecosystem referred to.
If there's no "fun" in being part of that ecosystem then, as mentioned, there's no need to be - again as mentioned, to the detriment of that ecosystem.
PvP is definitely not always ganking, but if you pull a paper plane in a PvP FdL then it does have a slight resemblance with bullying. If on the other hand, you attack a triple elite CMDR in a combat Corvette, then I can't see any problem with that. Bullying is when you walk up to that tiny kid in the schoolyard and smack him because you're way stronger than him, and you know he can't defend himself. Just like clubbing seal puppets, it's wrong.
Currently I fly around in open PvP engineering a pink Chief called "Eisenschwein". Anyone is more than welcome to try and wack me (I'll wack them back), but even if I wiggle the pigs tail in front of a ganker, they seem to prefer easier prey. That decision is not one their CMDR makes. That decision is made by the human at the end of an internet connection somewhere.
What are your reasons then? Because honestly, Ganking seems to be one of the least, if not the least interesting thing to do in this game? You want more people to play in open then actively inhibit the fun they can have in open with random killings? You're not even doing it to take their loot you just want them dead. You're not teaching them anything other than they're wasting their time in open because they die and loss weeks of exploration data, or all their cargo, or whatever else they had. I've not once been ganked in a ship that can defend itself and I think that says a lot about Gankers.
I'm honestly more shocked that people don't seem to see why ganking is so hated, than the fact that people gank.
The fun of it is struggling against the odds- for some reason in ED, the game with infinite lives, unending credits etc this has been inverted so that people are risk adverse rather than embracing risk.
If you are flying around in Open with a giant hold of LTD, what do you expect to happen? More importantly, why should you care about ganking? The game does not end in supercruise, or because you are doing an activity- no reason needs to be given why someone is doing something. Rather than ask why is this guy doing this? you should be planning and preparing- thats Open mode.
Its a similar argument to the Open Powerplay one; at some point you need hard rules to make the game an actual game. If there are too many clauses it becomes impotent.