Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking

[Rubbernuke]

You're conflating Powerplay with PvP though. And that's not actually true, is it.

Powerplay can be affected by competitive PvE activity, it is not inherently PvP and it is not designed to be.

Remember, like all elements of the BGS, Powerplay is designed to operate between players on different platforms who cannot encounter each other at all, let alone engage in PvP with each other.

No, what I'm saying is that when you are in Open and pledged you can block and log, even though the attacker has gained a significant advantage finding a rival who may hold merits / cargo, making that effort being in Open and finding them meaningless.

There has been situations where players holding merits have been destroyed by other players making an expansion attempt fail.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Optional means optional - and the lack of restriction on menu exit or the block feature is strongly suggestive of "at any stage".

Which means FD have created a monster where there are no consequences for anything and you can cheat out of death as much as you want...'because'.

That's down to Frontier.

Then to be honest they need to really work out what they want because its a mess.

Combat logging is an exploit and players can be subject to sanctions for engaging in it.

I'm mixing my terms, so apologies.

What I mean is, logging out as per 15 seconds- if you are 'clean' and carrying no Powerplay cargo (i.e. you are not active) being able to escape is as now- but, if you are caught with cargo you have to run or fight (because you are actively working in Powerplay). PP NPCs do that already.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

It apparently has meaning to some of its proponents. To those disinterested in it it can be a tedious waste of their game time when encountered.

No-one would do it if it had no reward. Frontier has spent a fair amount of development time on it though - so I expect that they'd fix it if few were engaged in it. It's also an activity where those who engage in it aren't really bothering any other player.

It depends on what sort of meaning is being sought and how that affects other players.

Of course there people that have no interest in it just like how I find mining and running cargo to be a tedious waste of time. Funny though, I've been borderline, forced to do it in order to get the money and materials to build my PvP ships anyways.
But that doesn't change what I said, why do other players get to have meaningful, and reward content but not pvpers? Is your argument here that because there are some players that don't enjoy it, we shouldn't get any content for it? Sounds like pure and utter selfishness to me.

And if it's something that so many still do, even though there is not only no reward, but you actually lose money for doing it, imagine how many would at least give it a try if it had some kind of rewarding content associated with it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which means FD have created a monster where there are no consequences for anything and you can cheat out of death as much as you want...'because'.

Then to be honest they need to really work out what they want because its a mess.

Introducing either a PvP flag or an Open-PvE mode would go a long way, in my opinion, to solving the problem.

I'm mixing my terms, so apologies.

What I mean is, logging out as per 15 seconds- if you are 'clean' and carrying no Powerplay cargo (i.e. you are not active) being able to escape is as now- but, if you are caught with cargo you have to run or fight (because you are actively working in Powerplay). PP NPCs do that already.

Any situation where players would be denied the ability to leave the game would be abused by those prone to abusing other players.

 

[GloatingSwine]

But that doesn't change what I said, why do other players get to have meaningful, and reward content but not pvpers? Is your argument here that because there are some players that don't enjoy it, we shouldn't get any content for it? Sounds like pure and utter selfishness to me.

Define "meaningful and rewarding content" in this context.

What do you want from PvP?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Introducing either a PvP flag or an Open-PvE mode would go a long way, in my opinion, to solving the problem.

Its just a modified PG, useless to Powerplay because you could then swarm a rivals space and they could do nothing even though you were next to them. It then just accelerates the grind race.

Any situation where players would be denied the ability to leave the game would be abused by those prone to abusing other players.

How? If you are carrying fortification merits you are a valid target. If you are clean (no PP bounties, no cargo, no merits for that week) then there is no restriction.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Of course there people that have no interest in it just like how I find mining and running cargo to be a tedious waste of time. Funny though, I've been borderline, forced to do it in order to get the money and materials to build my PvP ships anyways.

It's a PvE game with optional PvP - it's not surprising that players have to engage in PvE activities.

But that doesn't change what I said, why do other players get to have meaningful, and reward content but not pvpers?

Players have proven themselves to be untrustworthy on a number of occasions with respect to rewards for PvP encounters, specifically illegal goods scans in the early days and collusion piracy in Powerplay later on. Any reward specifically for PvP would be gamed by those prone to doing so.

Is your argument here that because there are some players that don't enjoy it, we shouldn't get any content for it? Sounds like pure and utter selfishness to me.

Not at all.

And if it's something that so many still do, even though there is not only no reward, but you actually lose money for doing it, imagine how many would at least give it a try if it had some kind of rewarding content associated with it.

One can only imagine - and that leads to guesswork and assumption.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its just a modified PG, useless to Powerplay because you could then swarm a rivals space and they could do nothing even though you were next to them. It then just accelerates the grind race.

It's not about fixing Powerplay - it's about reducing unsatisfactory PvP encounters.

How? If you are carrying fortification merits you are a valid target. If you are clean (no PP bounties, no cargo, no merits for that week) then there is no restriction.

Other players who were actually engaged in Powerplay would not be the only players encountered.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's not about fixing Powerplay - it's about reducing unsatisfactory PvP encounters.

But if you want meaningful PvP is the closest ED has, hence the drive to fix it.

Other players who were actually engaged in Powerplay would not be the only players encountered.

And they'd be treated as now, i.e. Powerplay alone has an exemption for blocking as well as logging for Powerplay activity.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But if you want meaningful PvP is the closest ED has, hence the drive to fix it.

Not all players want PvP, meaningful or otherwise. Whether Powerplay is broken, or not, is a matter of opinion and largely depends on ones preference, or lack thereof, for PvP.

And they'd be treated as now, i.e. Powerplay alone has an exemption for blocking as well as logging for Powerplay activity.

They would pledge - and be unblockable and inescapable.

Powerplay does not "have" any exemption to the functionality of menu exit or the block feature at this time.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Define "meaningful and rewarding content" in this context.

What do you want from PvP?

Rubbernuke has already provided a plethora of examples on how PP could be changed to provide meaningful PvP and I have stated many times, my wish for CQC to be brought into the main game and given the option to use our own ships while providing a simple reward for the winning team as well as suspending rebuys for it.

I agree that it shouldn't be anything that players would be forced into. More than anything, I want something that any player, regardless of their experience and play style, could easily join and try. It's kind of upsetting to me how many players have messaged me, asking how to get into PvP or wanting to fight me in private first because they feel intimidated by the community and are afraid that they might get ridiculed for not being good.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Not all players want PvP, meaningful or otherwise. Whether Powerplay is broken, or not, is a matter of opinion and largely depends on ones preference, or lack thereof, for PvP.

And this is not making PvP a blanket thing, its restricted to Powerplay. And I guess you must be joking about Powerplay being broken- after 5 years being left behind its an old rag. Its reason to be has been supplanted by the BGS.

They would pledge - and be unblockable and inescapable.

If they were carrying merits or Powerplay cargo- i.e. if they were actually involved. PP NPCs do this now and not attack PP pledges who are clean.

Powerplay does not "have" any exemption to the functionality of menu exit or the block feature at this time.

And thats what I mean, the outside game carries on as normal, while Powerplay has these potential restrictions. People get a watertight PvP feature, which is gated.

 

[Havvk]

Bingo!!! There's nothing. This is a problem with the game design. I'm not saying we should force anyone into open, but to have no incentive at all to play in open is a problem that contributes to more people ganking because it's the only semi-reliable PvP content to be had that's organic.

The incentive is that you can choose. OH MY GOD HOW PIONEERING!!!11!!one!!eleven

 

[Robert Maynard]

And this is not making PvP a blanket thing, its restricted to Powerplay. And I guess you must be joking about Powerplay being broken- after 5 years being left behind its an old rag. Its reason to be has been supplanted by the BGS.

Any problems that Powerplay has don't require it to be PvP-gated to fix them, in my opinion.

If they were carrying merits or Powerplay cargo- i.e. if they were actually involved. PP NPCs do this now and not attack PP pledges who are clean.

And thats what I mean, the outside game carries on as normal, while Powerplay has these potential restrictions. People get a watertight PvP feature, which is gated.

Whether Frontier would entertain such an exemption remains to be seen.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

You choose to be in open, and yet don't accept its dangerous and do not desire to 'be ready'.

Could it possibly be that some humans prefer other stuff in the game than killing each other? I agree that it's fun trying to hunt down Sri Ganksalittle, but I have also enjoyed watching the galaxy disk from high above, or even (slip) mining before it was (finally) nerfed. I can also recommend trying to run over one of those feisty geisers on a low G planet to see if you can get that SRV into orbit. It's neither explorers nor miners that makes the open galaxy one giant massacre. It's gankers. You could say that the responsibility of a dangerous galaxy rest upon them. Why can't we all just be friends and get along? Why?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Players have proven themselves to be untrustworthy on a number of occasions with respect to rewards for PvP encounters, specifically illegal goods scans in the early days and collusion piracy in Powerplay later on. Any reward specifically for PvP would be gamed by those prone to doing so.

My I've suggested many time that CQC be expanded to allow us to use our own ships and brought into the main game.

Other mmo games and devs are able to figure out how to make rewarding and meaningful pvp content. Just because Frontier tried and failed a couple of times doesn't mean they should just give up.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Any problems that Powerplay has don't require it to be PvP-gated to fix them, in my opinion.

You have one feature which is multi mode, long tick inclusive, mature with great variety of activities to do (i.e. the whole game).

You can't beat that, so why emulate it again? To justify Powerplays existence it needs to stand apart and offer something different.

Whether Frontier would entertain such an exemption remains to be seen.

Well, NPCs do it now, its not a stretch to extend it intelligently enough to have a compromise for players. That way you double gate PvP again, first by pledge and also by activity.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Rubbernuke has already provided a plethora of examples on how PP could be changed to provide meaningful PvP and I have stated many times, my wish for CQC to be brought into the main game and given the option to use our own ships while providing a simple reward for the winning team as well as suspending rebuys for it.

What Rubbernuke has suggested has basically been "make people who don't want to do PvP do PvP".

Which doesn't strike me as terribly meaningful to anyone except griefers.

And this seems to be based on a conflation between Powerplay and PvP, assuming that everyone doing Powerplay should automatically also be doing PvP. Which is not correct, Powerplay is not an inherently PvP mode. It's a competitive mode which can be affected by PvP but can also be purely PvE. So the requirement must remain for people who don't want to do PvP but do want to do Powerplay to be able to engage with that mode.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Sri Ganksalittle

I hope for your sake that your PvP game is as strong as your sledging game is.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Could it possibly be that some humans prefer other stuff in the game than killing each other? I agree that it's fun trying to hunt down Sri Ganksalittle, but I have also enjoyed watching the galaxy disk from high above, or even (slip) mining before it was (finally) nerfed. I can also recommend trying to run over one of those feisty geisers on a low G planet to see if you can get that SRV into orbit. It's neither explorers nor miners that makes the open galaxy one giant massacre. It's gankers. You could say that the responsibility of a dangerous galaxy rest upon them. Why can't we all just be friends and get along? Why?

And, Powerplay is partly about killing and being a total sod. Some people want PvP in the game, rather than let a feature rot through inaction and kept in limbo via an inconsistent application of modes and rules. Powerplay is almost there right now, separate systems, C+P, rules- why not give those players what they want?