Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking

[Rubbernuke]

No objective based play requires PvP in the first place - it is entirely optional.

Merits in Powerplay or cargo, pirating are all opportunistic objectives- if you see someone, you go for them.

Indeed - and if either doesn't want it it doesn't need to happen.

The problem being that for a lot of things to happen and not waste time, you need some sort of system to pre-filter those players together, like modes do.

One can gain the first rank, losing the permit in the process, in less than a couple of hours - and that happens, by default, in Open - the player may have lost the permit before even logging out after their first session.

But they start 'safe' and can read about PGs in the instructions.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

this game is an interactive graphic adventure with the possibility to move herself inside the game space.
with no risk, no difficult, no skill require and the possibility with a few engineer to make pve in GOD mode, a completely broken game.

only the new player can says this game is difficult. no one care about veteran player, now i can win the cz simply watching the monitor e press fire button, wheres the challenge?
is a damned mmo and the entire content is so easy. a player can take around one months to have all the ships all the rank 20bilion credit

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Exactly, so why not stop the PVE/PVP battle and get down to reasoned discussion assuming the current basic framework?
Can we at least discuss improvements to PvP gameplay in this thread without getting hikacked by the PVE only crowd and their agenda? They can always start another thread on PVE only if they so desire.
(I have nothing against people who don't want PvP, but I do have something against ruining the game, and a game where you can see other players but have no gameplay interaction would be a laughing stock in the eyes of the gaming community in general)

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, if you read though the OP, on three occasions he talks about 'no incentive for the player to leave SOLO'.

I take from that he wants to incentivise people out SOLO. So people who currently operate in SOLO would naturally respond to his post, he's almost invited them to do so. Or he's doing the reverse of what you're saying, and trying to create ways of getting people out of SOLO without wishing to consult them.

I agree, if OPEN players want to discuss devices that allow OPEN players more meaningful PvP, then someone like me, who plays exclusively in SOLO, has little to add to it, let alone dictate what happens in a mode I don't use. Unless of course, they take something from my mode to only make it available in OPEN.

So the OP really set the frame here by mixing the modes. He wants to better OPEN play by getting people out of SOLO.

That, I believe, is why so many 'non-PvPers' are in this thread.

Start a thread where OPEN players suggest and discuss devices for more meaningful PvP, one that doesn't want to take something from all modes and make it exclusively OPEN, one that doesn't talk about getting people out of SOLO but focuses entirely on OPEN, and you may get the thread you want without the interruptions you don't want from the people who don't play in the mode being discussed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Merits in Powerplay or cargo, pirating are all opportunistic objectives- if you see someone, you go for them.

Some do, no doubt.

The problem being that for a lot of things to happen and not waste time, you need some sort of system to pre-filter those players together, like modes do.

Indeed. Add another Open mode (either PvE or PvP flagged) with an unlimited population and many of the issues due to unsatisfactory encounters (from the protagonist's PoV) in Open might disappear.

But they start 'safe' and can read about PGs in the instructions.

Reading about them in the instructions isn't finding one with a large population - only Open enjoys the luxury of an unlimited population.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Start a thread where OPEN players suggest and discuss devices for more meaningful PvP, one that doesn't want to take something from all modes and make it exclusively OPEN, one that doesn't talk about getting people out of SOLO but focuses entirely on OPEN, and you may get the thread you want without the interruptions you don't want from the people who don't play in the mode being discussed.

Also taking into account that Open "belongs" to all players - so proposed changes that might make the less PvP-inclined player less likely to play in Open are also of interest to those players.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Thanks for asking Captain, I see PVPers as those who place high value on the ability to affect other players' experience of the game. Whether the other player wishes to be so affected doesn't seem to be a big factor in that - I may be wrong, I'm happy to have my perception of that challenged.

My perception of solo players is those who perhaps aren't as experienced as those who engage frequently in PVP, so they would not be able to defend themselves to any great degree if forced into a PVP environment by changes to the game structure. There will be exceptions of course, and I certainly can't speak for every solo player.

I can give you my personal view of course, and that's that I don't spend long enough on the game to defend myself in PVP, and as I'm getting on a bit my reaction times aren't what they were. Getting old sucks, but at least with solo and PGs I can still enjoy the game that I grew up with in the 80s when PVP wasn't part of the Elite experience, and Captain Pugwash was just a program I watched after dinner (you're not The Captain Pugwash, I assume?)

Hmm... I think there is probably quite a range of play styles, and plenty of solo only players are very experienced. On the other hand plenty of new player go into open by default. I have been ganked a few times, maybe 4-5 times in 1300 hours play time, and i am always puzzled by the ganking issue. By the way, I'm old too, as i played the orignal elite as a student, so i will never beat a good pvp combat pilot, but i do enjoy seeing other players and interacting with them as a pirate, and i think there are way to better balance aspects of the game and also introduce more roleplay based pvp. I just hope i am a better pirate than the original

 

[Northpin]

Also taking into account that Open "belongs" to all players - so proposed changes that might make the less PvP-inclined player less likely to play in Open are also of interest to those players.

Any discussion regarding any-OpenOnly-feature make sense only if an OpenPve Mode is also introduced.
PGs are extremely limited in this aspect and they're not really PVE modes

 

[MadSinUN]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, if you read though the OP, on three occasions he talks about 'no incentive for the player to leave SOLO'.

I take from that he wants to incentivise people out SOLO. So people who currently operate in SOLO would naturally respond to his post, he's almost invited them to do so. Or he's doing the reverse of what you're saying, and trying to create ways of getting people out of SOLO without wishing to consult them.

I agree, if OPEN players want to discuss devices that allow OPEN players more meaningful PvP, then someone like me, who plays exclusively in SOLO, has little to add to it, let alone dictate what happens in a mode I don't use. Unless of course, they take something from my mode to only make it available in OPEN.

So the OP really set the frame here by mixing the modes. He wants to better OPEN play by getting people out of SOLO.

That, I believe, is why so many 'non-PvPers' are in this thread.

Start a thread where OPEN players suggest and discuss devices for more meaningful PvP, one that doesn't want to take something from all modes and make it exclusively OPEN, one that doesn't talk about getting people out of SOLO but focuses entirely on OPEN, and you may get the thread you want without the interruptions you don't want from the people who don't play in the mode being discussed.

Players from solo mode can also Express their suggestions for improving the OPEN MODE for all players and Pvp and Pve. Many of the arguments of solo players generally sound like "I feel good alone", "I don't have much time to play", and "I want to get away with doing whatever I want". In this branch, people are waiting for reasoned offers from everyone for everyone in open mode. Therefore, all offers of all types of players are interesting here.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I guess I got the wrong angle, apologies.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Any discussion regarding any-OpenOnly-feature make sense only if an OpenPve Mode is also introduced.
PGs are extremely limited in this aspect and they're not really PVE modes

By all means start a thread on the subject.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I guess I got the wrong angle, apologies.

Apologise for what??

 

[Northpin]

By all means start a thread on the subject.

Why?
I actually like the game as it is now (although i would not mind an open-pve mode)

 

[Fulcs]

Hmm... I think there is probably quite a range of play styles, and plenty of solo only players are very experienced. On the other hand plenty of new player go into open by default. I have been ganked a few times, maybe 4-5 times in 1300 hours play time, and i am always puzzled by the ganking issue.

I agree, we all come to ED with different expectations and gravitate to a style that suits us

By the way, I'm old too, as i played the orignal elite as a student, so i will never beat a good pvp combat pilot, but i do enjoy seeing other players and interacting with them as a pirate, and i think there are way to better balance aspects of the game and also introduce more roleplay based pvp.

A fellow old-school Elite player, a pleasure to meet you sir

I just hope i am a better pirate than the original

I wish you all the best with achieving that, thankfully he didn't set the bar too high

 

[Tyler-Rid]

How about, and this is just a thought, everyone just play the game the way they want to play it, and if it turns out they can't play the game the way they want to play it, maybe it's not the game they thought it was.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

How about, and this is just a thought, everyone just play the game the way they want to play it, and if it turns out they can't play the game the way they want to play it, maybe it's not the game they thought it was.

I think most of us do that, but Frontier have created a discussion forum where we can .. discuss .. so why not

 

[Fulcs]

How about, and this is just a thought, everyone just play the game the way they want to play it, and if it turns out they can't play the game the way they want to play it, maybe it's not the game they thought it was.

This is kind of where I started from when I first commented, but if we can find some ideas to help the PVP players in Open enjoy their game more without impinging on those who choose Solo or PG then we've achieved something. It's a tricky subject, but something good might come out of the discussion

 

[CaptainPugwash]

This is kind of where I started from when I first commented, but if we can find some ideas to help the PVP players in Open enjoy their game more without impinging on those who choose Solo or PG then we've achieved something. It's a tricky subject, but something good might come out of the discussion

Maybe I missed something but I don't remebre suggestions that would adversely affect solo or PG gameplay ..

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Apologise for what??

I believed that, in crude terms, you were telling people who don't play in OPEN to butt out of the conversation about gameplay in OPEN.

I made a post explaining how the OP invited those people into this conversation and stated perhaps a different thread should be started. Two people since have shouted that down. I was apologising for getting the wrong angle on it.

 

[Fulcs]

Maybe I missed something but I don't remebre suggestions that would adversely affect solo or PG gameplay ..

Nothing specific, it was the general drift of the conversation that Solo and PG seem are somehow detrimental to the Open game as they syphon players away to a place where they're untouchable. Maybe I missed a step there myself?

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I believed that, in crude terms, you were telling people who don't play in OPEN to butt out of the conversation about gameplay in OPEN.

I made a post explaining how the OP invited those people into this conversation and stated perhaps a different thread should be started. Two people since have shouted that down. I was apologising for getting the wrong angle on it.

Thanks for the clarification: perhaps I should apologise for my strong language born out of frustration with some of the posts in this thread.