I'm curious, what do you class as 'playing the game'

What is 'playing the game' to you?

Stalking criminals lately...

PuUbVwg.png
 
https://www.pcgamer.com/david-braben-on-arena-and-the-future-of-elite-dangerous/

"[FONT=&]“There are missions out there I know almost no players have seen,” he says. “But we haven’t communicated it properly. There’s so much in there, and what we see from play patterns is that many do the same thing over and over. In that cycle, they just don’t get to see some of the variation. I’m not blaming players. We got it wrong.”Braben adds that even when he was playing the game in a certain way, he wasn’t seeing everything. “I wasn’t making friends with the minor factions. I was missing out on missions. And most players do that,” he says. “It’s a shame, because the missions actually drive you around the galaxy. But if you keep going back to the same place, you won’t venture very far. We need to change the way we communicate that.”[/FONT]

The game design mitigates against DBOBE's stated intent here.
If you stay in the same ship, in more or less the same place, doing the same thing, you will make progress whether it is credit accumulation, reputation, rank, or any of the other progress bars to fill.

If you change roles, the game punishes you with downtime while you either get to where the ship you need is or bring that ship to you, plus any additional time taken to get that ship where it needs to be to be useful.

If you travel adhoc around the bubble, you will not have local knowledge of markets, broker locations, or faction reputation. All of which impact your ability to make progress.

Clearly DBOBE and his game designers are not on the same page.
 
Let's face it: it's a ship building game. Nothing wrong with that i.m.o., but that's what it is.

True. I still hope (i know right) that they’ll add other actual game aspects to it. It could be quite amazing. Apart from just looking amazing, that is.
 
Last edited:
I've been posting here since 2014 it means absolutely nothing.

Yeah, you're doing that thing where you read the first three words of something and start ballooning again. Remember, like in another thread where you tried to suggest I was conflating the slaughter in Myanmar with something in-game, when what I wrote was in fact the exact opposite of that?

I mentioned the length of time I had been playing and posting on the forums to highlight the amount of different topics you should have seen me involved in, reflecting the wide variety of game activities that I participate in, because you seemed to have got it into your head that I was spending all my time doing something I don't enjoy. Nothing more. If you'd bothered to read the post in question you would have seen that.

You typed an effort post and I replied with one, you ignored most of mine to complain about my understanding of yours. So that's all the effort posting you'll get.

See above. Why should I bother reading anything you have to say when you don't extend the same courtesy to anybody else and always seem to look for the most negative interpretation that you can possibly jump to? Don't waste your time answering that by the way, I won't read it.

I've suggested an alterative overall approach and specific method for gathering the mat you think you need lots of, I've also told you I enjoy the game and gathering mats that way. I don't need to agree with you that it's crap.

Nah, you haven't suggested a specific method of doing a damn thing. You suggested not doing the thing at all, or doing something else and essentially praying that at some indeterminate point in the future the RNG gods had smiled on me sufficiently that I might be able to do the thing I wanted to do ages ago. Oh, or doing the thing I'm talking about anyway, only six times as much of it just so that I can get a 1-6 trade-in at the material brokers. I did actually read all of your post, it's just that it included a bunch of stuff which has no real relevance to my clearly expressed point. Again, maybe you should have tried reading it and whilst doing so, imagined that not everybody in the world is exactly like you.

That is not a 'method' lol, the first two are an abdication and the last one in an exercise in masochism. I mean, I appreciate that you consider it to be an alternative but that's because you seem to be perfectly fine with making compromises in your choice of activity in the game. I'm not. It's not actually that uncommon for players to expect a degree of agency with regard to achieving outcomes, nor is it unreasonable.

I'm not actually trying to make you change your mind by the way. I'm delighted if you're happy with all of it and think that there is no aspect at all that could benefit from any further improvement, even one which would have absolutely no effect at all on your own gameplay but which you seemingly remain determined to tell me I don't really need either.

No. I'm just trying to stop you doing what you always do, which is dismissing anybody who doesn't agree with you as either stupid, a whiner or both. There are hundreds of posts on here every day that I disagree with but I don't feel the need to constantly crap-post to belittle the players who make them.

Oh and lastly just to remove the mystery for you:

Wonk

(3) Noun - A member of a player group in another game Darty and I used to play, the players concerned being noted for posting the same dismissive and usually nonsensical replies to shout down anybody who didn't share their own opinion of particular game mechanics.

Sounds about right to me.

Back on topic everyone, and knock off the insults please.

Yeah, done now ♥
 
Last edited:
Yes, I take private stuff private.
How thick are you, 'son' ?

Hush now. I know you aren't big on forum rules, what with the multiple accounts and pm'ing people just to hurl, abuse at them but a mod did ask us to pay some attention to them.

Not sure why you felt the need to jump in here with your size 9s since nothing I said before my last post was directed at you, or had anything to do with you at all actually, but I wasn't doing anything 'private' I was having a discussion with another player about some game mechanics. It wasn't the first disagreement I've had with Stigbob, may not be the last either, but he's always given me the impression that he's perfectly capable of fighting his own battles without you capering around on the sidelines.

Now do you have anything to contribute to the actual topic under discussion, which isn't your opinion of me?
 
You just can't help yourself, can you?

I'll take that as 'No I don't have anything to contribute to the topic' shall I? Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Oh and yeah I'll defend myself against your crap all day long mate. I really wish I hadn't deleted those pms - I can pretty much guarantee you what most people on here's opinion would be if they'd seen them and they would reflect far worse on you than me.

Now seriously, stop stalking me you weirdo. If you don't like my posts, use the ignore feature or just don't read them, I couldn't care less which one you choose.
 
Last edited:
There are lots and lots of threads about grind. However, what a lot of people class as grind, I class as playing the game. For example, I wanted to make some shield upgrades for my T9. So I worked out what I would need, and then set out to get them. In some cases I got things through doing other things. Selecting the right rewards for missions, or just scanning ships as a habit. In another case I went to a moon and drove around for a while until I had harvested 20 units of Niobium.

To me this is playing the game. I enjoyed those things. But is that playing the game for you, or is that grind? And if so, what do you class as 'playing the game'?

So all you people making post about how awful the game is and how much of a grind it all is; let's say you have all the money you need and all the ships you need, with all the engineering you need. What do you do now? What is 'playing the game' to you?

I've been doing the same as you, collecting mats for 5 A rated pythons with different roles to be fully engineered for those respective roles. I have enjoyed using the material hunter python and seeking out material traders in different systems. It's cool to find a slew of high grade mats that you might not even need, but you know you can trade them for stuff you do need. So now I just take everything whereas before Beyond I was dumping things to clear room. I dumped 50 exquisite focus crystals once. Yeah I know...

Still, it becomes a grind if you want the end product only and the way to get it requires doing things you don't want to do. If you are a PvPer, for example (not to pick on any role exclusively), you probably don't care too much about collecting mats and engineering, but you might. Instead you want to enter the battle without being disadvantaged from the start, or you want to simply overpower your unsuspecting prey. If you just build ships to build ships, material hunting might be for you. Explorers probably want to be out exploring, but they'd not mind some buffed hardware while they are out there. for them, since they are very patient people and don't see the game as a race to the finish but a daily experience to savor, they will take the time to collect what they think they need, since they are going to in the void for months.

So your "playing the game" is grinding for some roles and not for others. Many of us have more than one role, depending on which side of the bed we get up on that day, so it's nice to have the hardware for everything you need, and sometimes it's a grind and sometimess it's not. It depends greatly on how monotonous the task is.

I don't do the "illegal in most systems" missions because I have no idea what the ramifications would be. That keeps me away from 70% or more of the mission board. I liked killing skimmers when it wasn't causing me to lose the ability to trade in a station. This new system could introduce grind that I am not accustomed to, so my outlook may change.
 
Load up game... arrive inside station.

Return to surface.

Turn on head look.

Watch people coming and going & crashing into things.

lol I thought I was the only one who does that. In VR you don't need to leave the station NOR risk your ship to griefers in Open, just sit on the pad and watch the mayhem in 3D :)
 
A good, valid question.

In short, personally I have a problem with Elite's game design decisions and not with grind, because I never felt like I grinded the game.

I can't help but look with a forgiving and (yes indeed, there I said it) patronising smile at angry comments such as 'I have to spend 10.000 hours now to max out my fleet of 30 ships, thanks frontier, your game suck'. I guess different people have different ideas of fun, for me it's not in amassing virtual riches and 'elite' tags but in moment to moment experiences. That's the only thing that will ever remain after playing any game, I think.

My idea of fun in Elite is in immersion coming from unexpected situations and well designed, deep systems interacting.

I wanted most of all to spend my time with Elite playing as a smuggler/miner/pirate, expecting to be utilising all that amazing heat mechanics to play cat and mouse with bouty hunters, pirates and security around asteroid rings, planetary surfaces and station territories. I quickly realised a whole plethora of mechanics surrounding such gameplay sandbox are very simplistic, borderline non-existent and npc cheat, behave and spawn either entirely predictably or without any logic.

I wanted to explore, imagining FTL type of survival dangers, studying maps to find right planetary ingredients then going planetside to hunt for materials that will let me patch that oxygen emergency or shields that failed after many jumps, electromagnetic storms, meteor showers, sun flares and so on.
I quickly relised there's zero gameplay to be found other than jumping from star to star repetitively, seeing small variations of few planetary models.

I wanted to engage in some form of Powerplay but realised there's little difference or effects between various states and it's largely a make-believe gameplay to feel any sense of achievement or making a difference.

My beef with Elite is how shallow or downright dissapointing most of its mechanics were made, against fairly realistic understanding of what they very easily could have been should better decisions have been made along the way.
It's down to expectations though and I entirely understand that. I don't play anymore but visit the forums sometimes.

I like games that reward thinking and 'come' to Elite from the background of ambitious - often emergent - design philosophies, growing up with games such as thief the dark project, system shock 2, deus ex, sid meyer's alpha centauri, x-com: enemy unknown, or subwar 2050 to name a few. This is not to sound self-important but to say I came here as a fan of games that are known for deep and innovative game design and were dissapointed at overall sum of parts that Elite turned out to be to me after the initial amazement at its scope.

I do think many many many things could have been done much better and were not down to technical limitations, simply - bad/simplistic design.

The most amazing moments of the game I have found in combat because that's where the game has only real design depth.
This has also been messed up I think, due to the way engineers were made, forcing upon everyone what may be referred to as 'grind' I suppose, just to stay competitive against others.

I believe it's a cheapest and laziest way to add content to a game, enforcing a linear rather than multidimentional system so to speak.
A good example of a clever system is PUBG, if one can look past the sufrace/genre difference.
The genius decision by PUBG is that all those crates with gear you 'earn' are cosmetic only - they don't give better damage or accurancy or anything beyond the main, very well balanced core. The equivalent of elite's engineers in pubg would be letting players update/upgrade their weapons permanently through grindy chores of collecting tones and tones of materials and once that system is in place, it will skew the careful balance of the core and it WILL force players into that tunel to stay competitive - which is exactly what becomes a grind now that I 'have to' max out all the engineered modules to stand a chance against another guy who bothered to spend loads of time doing stuff he hated just to have those modules.

It's what happened in Elite and what's to blame is both poor design ideas of FD and players who feel they need to max out everything to feel they accomplished something. It could have worked, easily, as everyting else if it was better considered and implemented but that's another discussion.

So the amazing design of Elite (UI, sound, art direction, many of its ideas on paper) sinks under a great many poor design decisions surrounding it. At least it does for me.

Quoted in full because this truly captures my experience (*with minor variation).
 
Don't call crying to a moderator defending yourself.

Don't make duplicate accounts to send me abuse in PM and I won't need to. It got irritating after the first few. By the way, asking the mods to enforce the forum rules around abusive behaviour and duplicate accounts isn't 'crying', it's more 'not being inclined to deal with some oddball every time I log on'. If you'd had the guts to enable replies instead of the drive-by passive aggressive raving that characterised your messages (and which was as tragic a thing as I have ever seen online from someone who is presumably an adult) I'd would have explained that to you at some length at the time.

By the way, anybody who cares to look at your post history will find 12 posts in total, six of which are attacking me, on two separate occasions, neither of which was prompted by a post directed at you to begin with. I don't really need to do much to prove to anybody that you're a triggered crank when the evidence you provide yourself is so clear.

Really, just block me. You obviously don't like me and have no interest in actually discussing the game with me, so this serves no purpose at all.
 
For me, it is merely doing whatever takes my fancy at any given time.....irrespective of whether I come out ahead or not. Heck, last night I took an assassination mission, & ended up looking at a screen showing over 3 million credits in re-buy costs. Still had a blast trying to go "toe to toe" with a heavily shielded & armed Anaconda though!

Some nights I've done nothing more than tooled around on the surface of a planet all night, looking for PoI's.
 
The game is mindless flying around and doing stuff, stuff that has no tangible meaning in the real world, but relaxes me.
 
Yeah, you're doing that thing where you read the first three words of something and start ballooning again. Remember, like in another thread where you tried to suggest I was conflating the slaughter in Myanmar with something in-game, when what I wrote was in fact the exact opposite of that?

No red, I'm doing that thing where I don't bother with effort posts at someone who will ignore them as they just want to rant.

I've no idea where Myanmar fits into any of this, maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

I mentioned the length of time I had been playing and posting on the forums to highlight the amount of different topics you should have seen me involved in, reflecting the wide variety of game activities that I participate in, because you seemed to have got it into your head that I was spending all my time doing something I don't enjoy. Nothing more. If you'd bothered to read the post in question you would have seen that.

You were claiming forum seniority (a non-existent hilarious concept) against someone with two years forum seniority on you, it was very funny indeed.

<snipped ranting>

You don't get to decide where or how I post or what subjects are allowed, trying to have input in it will just frustrate you. Complaining isn't compulsory, no matter how much you like it.

You are wrong, my way is better the proof is how happy I am.

Oh and lastly just to remove the mystery for you:

Wonk

(3) Noun - A member of a player group in another game Darty and I used to play, the players concerned being noted for posting the same dismissive and usually nonsensical replies to shout down anybody who didn't share their own opinion of particular game mechanics.

Sounds about right to me.

Lol, he got moderated.
 
Back
Top Bottom