PvP I'm new! Give Me The Scoop On Builds And Stuff Please :D

HI y'all. I'm a noob at Elite Dangerous! But I've finally wrapped my head around what engineering requires and am finally confident that I'm heading down the right path towards getting all of that. Once I'm done, I'd definitely like to get into PVP. It's been so hard scraping together information on what's a good build or not. For example, there's a lot of people saying that the Imperial Cutter is useless in PVP and there's also people saying that it's undefeatable and needs to be nerfed and shields need to be nerfed, too. And the whole gimballed weapons are useless vs the argument that most people don't have double chaff and you'll probably win with gimballed unless they can land every shot if you fly evasively. I'm not interested in debating such things because I have literally never pvped in this game! There's a couple of basic build principle guides I've seen out there but there's not a lot of actual builds around. Every thread says you might need "exotic" builds for wing fights as opposed to 1v1s. What's up with that? I don't see any builds for wing fights posted anywhere. Is there not enough interest? Are people trying to keep theirs secret? The builds floating around seem to be for arranged 1v1s. Is it true that you can't catch anyone who wants to run away? Will it really take me 20+ minutes to kill someone? Are certain ships really not viable? Is there some compendium of meta builds for different purposes/ships that I'm missing? Am I trash if I use a healing beam? I've heard any great pilot can fly whatever and win. But what if I'm just a little bit better than someone or a little bit worse? Would flying something that's not an FDL just cripple me? So many questions...

Here's a build I found on some old forum post from AP Birdman: Krait Phantom PVP Beast

It looks like it has pretty high hull... it's fast... has PAs... Viable?? Do I not need a railgun for feedback cascade? Any reason to take this over an FDL?

Forgive me for rambling and thanks in advance for any help.
 
I’m at work, so I can’t really type out anything huge, but I will say this:

Fly what makes you happy. Use whatever weapons you’re comfortable with. If you aren’t doing well, try something else. Or don’t, as long as you’re having a good time, who cares?

The FDL is generally considered the best because of how it moves, but it can be especially unforgiving if not flown correctly. That Krait build would be a contender, too, as would many other combinations.

Each ship is a little different from the next, and in the end, it’s kind of a preference thing. For example, I do quite a bit of PvP in a Python. I’ve met scary Federal Gunships, and FDLs that were total pushovers. It’s hard telling what you’ll find out there.

Whatever you wanna build, build it. Get out there and fight.
 
HI y'all. I'm a noob at Elite Dangerous! But I've finally wrapped my head around what engineering requires and am finally confident that I'm heading down the right path towards getting all of that. Once I'm done, I'd definitely like to get into PVP. It's been so hard scraping together information on what's a good build or not. For example, there's a lot of people saying that the Imperial Cutter is useless in PVP and there's also people saying that it's undefeatable and needs to be nerfed and shields need to be nerfed, too. And the whole gimballed weapons are useless vs the argument that most people don't have double chaff and you'll probably win with gimballed unless they can land every shot if you fly evasively. I'm not interested in debating such things because I have literally never pvped in this game! There's a couple of basic build principle guides I've seen out there but there's not a lot of actual builds around. Every thread says you might need "exotic" builds for wing fights as opposed to 1v1s. What's up with that?


I don't see any builds for wing fights posted anywhere. Is there not enough interest? Are people trying to keep theirs secret? The builds floating around seem to be for arranged 1v1s. Is it true that you can't catch anyone who wants to run away? Will it really take me 20+ minutes to kill someone? Are certain ships really not viable? Is there some compendium of meta builds for different purposes/ships that I'm missing? Am I trash if I use a healing beam? I've heard any great pilot can fly whatever and win. But what if I'm just a little bit better than someone or a little bit worse? Would flying something that's not an FDL just cripple me? So many questions...

Here's a build I found on some old forum post from AP Birdman: Krait Phantom PVP Beast

It looks like it has pretty high hull... it's fast... has PAs... Viable?? Do I not need a railgun for feedback cascade? Any reason to take this over an FDL?

Forgive me for rambling and thanks in advance for any help.
too many words, too little action.

you are building on mere hype. just start pvping. you'll see for yourself soon. it might spare you some trouble and time waste, adjust your expectations a bit (wing fights! no less!) and show you what's fundamentally backwards with this:

Once I'm done, I'd definitely like to get into PVP
good luck! :D
 

The Replicated Man

T
HI y'all. I'm a noob at Elite Dangerous! But I've finally wrapped my head around what engineering requires and am finally confident that I'm heading down the right path towards getting all of that. Once I'm done, I'd definitely like to get into PVP. It's been so hard scraping together information on what's a good build or not. For example, there's a lot of people saying that the Imperial Cutter is useless in PVP and there's also people saying that it's undefeatable and needs to be nerfed and shields need to be nerfed, too. And the whole gimballed weapons are useless vs the argument that most people don't have double chaff and you'll probably win with gimballed unless they can land every shot if you fly evasively. I'm not interested in debating such things because I have literally never pvped in this game! There's a couple of basic build principle guides I've seen out there but there's not a lot of actual builds around. Every thread says you might need "exotic" builds for wing fights as opposed to 1v1s. What's up with that? I don't see any builds for wing fights posted anywhere. Is there not enough interest? Are people trying to keep theirs secret? The builds floating around seem to be for arranged 1v1s. Is it true that you can't catch anyone who wants to run away? Will it really take me 20+ minutes to kill someone? Are certain ships really not viable? Is there some compendium of meta builds for different purposes/ships that I'm missing? Am I trash if I use a healing beam? I've heard any great pilot can fly whatever and win. But what if I'm just a little bit better than someone or a little bit worse? Would flying something that's not an FDL just cripple me? So many questions...

Here's a build I found on some old forum post from AP Birdman: Krait Phantom PVP Beast

It looks like it has pretty high hull... it's fast... has PAs... Viable?? Do I not need a railgun for feedback cascade? Any reason to take this over an FDL?

Forgive me for rambling and thanks in advance for any help.
My advice to you OP would be to go and start building ships based on the current meta and ships used in PvP. Try each one out and decide which one you like the best.

Ship type? Do you prefer a slower craft that deals high damage but low maneuverability or a fast one with less?

Shield tank? Hulltank? or Hybrid? 3 different ship build setups depending on the ship you are flying. They all have their weaknesses and strengths.

Play around with them and get back to us.

It also would be a good idea to talk to some of the PvP crowd on the GCI discord server. I am sure someone can link you the discord link.
 
Here's a build I found on some old forum post from AP Birdman: Krait Phantom PVP Beast
that build is quite good, pretty standard meta. though, you still have to fly it ...

It looks like it has pretty high hull... it's fast... has PAs... Viable?? Do I not need a railgun for feedback cascade? Any reason to take this over an FDL?
you do not need feedback cascade. seems you've just looked up the metas? again, get started. and unless you are filthy rich (which means your pve grind can be nearing dangerously(tm) close to your motivation threshold) consider ...

  • in that build, the armor alone is doubling your rebuy.
  • you will have rebuys. probably lots. if you are a legit pvper worth your salt, that is. consider starting your learning curve with a smaller ship.
 
I've gotta remind you guys that all I've got right now is hype! I'm unengineered and have hours of that to complete. Also, aside from balancing your resists and the required engineering and the commonly used weapons, I can't find information about what is a meta ship and my meta/anti-meta/cheese/anti-gank/wing/etc options for outfitting it! Obviously the FGS's that people like Replicant and Falter are building and posting about here on the forums are good, and we all know about meta FDL, but what about all the other medium ships and then the large ships? Also, I definitely am filthy rich because I have a wing of casual friends who I have mined with. Got to elite in trade in a short night's work with them feeding me, and we're all down to farm for a bit if needed.
 
The build should factor in various aspects of Your skills, the wing build should also factor in strengths and weaknesses of your wing comrades. That’s why more often than not it is pointless to share a cookie-cutter build. The one receiving it won’t have a clue why it is built that way, for what occasion and therefore no idea how to fly it properly. Go to compromised nav beacon (there is one in BOLG system, for your convenience) and try to kill one of the heavies (krait, challenger, python) in less than 30 seconds. If (when) you can do that, you’re ready for entry level pvp.

Take pleasure in finding out yourself what build you like. Fly it for a bit and come back with coriolis link and if you can a video of your fight. Then we’ll tell you what you’re doing wrong.

As a welcome gesture, here is what I use when I (rarely) feel like fighting in medium-heavies https://s.orbis.zone/3auh (krait mk2)
 
So it looks like I am expecting too much? I'm coming from games like League of Legends, Overwatch, WoW, Guild Wars 2, even Dark Souls. In games like those, there are very established metas, builds, tactics for the build, all of which you could find with an easy google search. I know this game has depth, too, but it's so convoluted and undocumented, especially for a game that came out in 2014. I feel like I can't personally see what I like the best until I fly everything engineered right?
 
My ‘essential’ engineers list.

Tod Mcquinn (Feedback rails)
The Dweller (Power distributors)
Lei Cheung (Shield generators)
Didi Vatermann (Shield boosters)
Selene Jean (Bulkheads/Hull reinforcement)
Bill Turner (Plasma Accelerators)
Marco Qwent(Powerplants)
Professor Palin (G5 Thrusters)

Pretty much all of my builds use these people, but your choice of weapons may vary.

I recommend Inara to find out who you need, and how to unlock them.
 

The Replicated Man

T
So it looks like I am expecting too much? I'm coming from games like League of Legends, Overwatch, WoW, Guild Wars 2, even Dark Souls. In games like those, there are very established metas, builds, tactics for the build, all of which you could find with an easy google search. I know this game has depth, too, but it's so convoluted and undocumented, especially for a game that came out in 2014. I feel like I can't personally see what I like the best until I fly everything engineered right?
The meta has constantly changed since this game started. There is no specific build that is the best and there is not really a ship type for any specific type of flying style.
 
because I have a wing of casual friends who I have mined with.
well, then those could be excellent sparring partners! a slight problem is that in open you are exposed to anything (although there are lots of nice people too), and unengineered you have little to no option. with prearranged fights you guys can learn a lot and even have balanced ground (say, limit engineering and expand progressively).

there are also some pvp groups involved in training and having general fun. can't give you any concrete references and dunno if they are all still operating, but you might look that up or they might give you a heads up here.

if you see me online (not very common these days) give me a shout for a legit fight. i don't mind loosing, nor any problem playing 'catch without death' (unless we're talking about actual fish!) :D
 
The meta has constantly changed since this game started. There is no specific build that is the best and there is not really a ship type for any specific type of flying style.
The meta for all alive games changes. But yeah, say for example I look into whether or not a certain weapon is usable in PVP or not. I will often only be able to find results from 6+ months ago. I don't want to have to go try to fight someone with jank weapons that sound good only because I don't know that they're bad since the info about them is all outdated or undocumented. I don't see how there aren't ships for styles. You can't really zoom and boom in a FGS right?
 
So it looks like I am expecting too much? I'm coming from games like League of Legends, Overwatch, WoW, Guild Wars 2, even Dark Souls.
nope, definitely not. not even remotely. but that's not to say it's rubbish either. it's just different altogether. hence my advice of not overthinking it and jump right in.

I feel like I can't personally see what I like the best until I fly everything engineered right?
my number 1 gripe with engineers. testing went out of the window for me. before engineers you bought a ship, slapped modules and weapons on it (which could imply just a few credits, worst case jumping around a few dozen ly) and off you went, for science and glory. it was fun. now ...

on the bright side, it is now far better as it has been. did you know that for a time modifications were random? with random side effects? without material traders? let that sink in ... :D
 

The Replicated Man

T
The meta for all alive games changes. But yeah, say for example I look into whether or not a certain weapon is usable in PVP or not. I will often only be able to find results from 6+ months ago. I don't want to have to go try to fight someone with jank weapons that sound good only because I don't know that they're bad since the info about them is all outdated or undocumented. I don't see how there aren't ships for styles. You can't really zoom and boom in a FGS right?
You would be surprised

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDShsQjIH1A&t=91s
 

The Replicated Man

T
I guess maybe I don't know what zoom and boom means? It looks like he was trying to zoom and boom you and you were basically sitting there going 200-400 and just shooting him with better aim/guns.
Yeah he was trying to do "Jousting passes". It helped that all his guns were gimballed and I had chaff, plus I have superior aim with fixed high damage plasma accelerators. If you get into a joust, it's really easy to dodge and then hit your opponent by counter thrusting and thrusting downwards. Providing your timing is right.
 
I guess maybe I don't know what zoom and boom means? It looks like he was trying to zoom and boom you and you were basically sitting there going 200-400 and just shooting him with better aim/guns.
zoom and boom is just a (lore) trope here, it doesn't make much sense without gravity anyway. yes, some ships differ in these parameters (eg mamba's vs fdl's 'avionics') but i wouldn't say it makes much difference in practice. i guess people mean jousting, which is just sloppy speed control while dogfighting. it could work with severely mobility capped targets but those don't really exist. in elite combat is basically always dogfight varying mostly only distance. however, features like boost and specially fa-off can spice that up considerably and specially fa-off, being purely skill based, is very, very interesting.
 
Yeah he was trying to do "Jousting passes". It helped that all his guns were gimballed and I had chaff, plus I have superior aim with fixed high damage plasma accelerators. If you get into a joust, it's really easy to dodge and then hit your opponent by counter thrusting and thrusting downwards. Providing your timing is right.
It's also kind of useful to realize that since a gunship has 7 hardpoints and is pretty good at turning, you probably shouldn't try to joust it unless you think you're way better than them, right? Would something like a long-range beam and rail set-up be more effective vs that FGS at equal skill? Or is the solution to just get better at jousting because PAs are stronk? Could I stop you from jumping away if you were so inclined? Could you have stopped that Mamba?
 
‘Zoom and boom’ tactics are more successful in wing fights, where you might be able to use your speed to break contact and broadside someone who is no longer paying attention when you come back.

In a duel, your enemy is focusing you, and you alone. You’re gonna have to get closer to hit them, and they’re gonna be ready to smack you when you do.

If you do that thing where you fly out of range to get your shields back every time they go down, people might just get bored and leave lol.

Nothing worse than fighting a mamba who gets clobbered on a pass, and disappears out of sensor range, just to do it again.
 
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