I'm too negative

Um, no it isn't. Why do FD need to tell us in detail what they are doing? The only reason RSI does it is to calm people down about how they're spending their money... I haven't ever seen another game company do this. FD have released a game - either buy it or don't, enjoy it or don't, but don't think you have any rights to anything beyond that.
Check out anything on Steam Early access and you will see that your statement is wrong. Other games do not release a game over the course of multiple years. So they only need to communicate any large changes/adjustments and new content. DLC is not core content its DLC. Both Star Citizen and ED have decided that is the route they are taking.

However early access projects such as ED should be updating as they go along. That is both the curse and the blessing of releasing a product gradually. You can have time to make things perfect, however people do expect to see progress. Early access games are literally one step above beta in its completion. However its is not yet a complete product. As it stands we have to wait until E3 to find out if and when we will see bug fixes. We have to wait until PAX to find out if day one promised content will be added. That is no way to support your ongoing project.

Everyone who has purchased this game and are playing the game have invested both time an money to its creation. PR or Dev team, I dont care which, can abate the vast majority of the negativism if they would only communicate progress or changes. If this was supposed to be a huge surprise and the community is to have no input on the design/direction of the game, then it should not have been released yet. If they had not done it this way, then the cool stuff the community pursued would not have been added. See Colonia and the addition of PG owned mega ships as examples.

Either way I am not justifying myself to your views. Take it as you will, however I know what I need in order to have my fears/negativity addressed and I am not the only person that feels that way.
 
That's heading into slightly dangerous entitled territory - the Devs have no obligation to be transparent to us (the public) because they don't work for us.

But I agree it would be nice to hear "we're working on 2.3.1 and we're hoping to release it in two weeks' time". I disagree that they should tell us what they're specifically working on for 2.3.1, because if they have to drop one of the fixes then they're going to be accused of breaking promises, going back on their word, etc.

They sold their product to us, they work for us and nobody else. I am unsure you know how investment or projects work. You have no defense on this area of the dispute.
 
They sold their product to us, they work for us and nobody else. I am unsure you know how investment or projects work. You have no defense on this area of the dispute.
Hahahaha. Wow. You really think that £40 for a game gets you that? At this point, I am sure that you have no idea how "investment" or "projects" work (E: D is neither, by the way; you've purchased a product). FD, as they have stated over and over, are writing the game the way they want to. You can buy it or not. That is the limit of their responsibility to you.
 
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They sold their product to us, they work for us and nobody else.
That's not how this works. Do you expect Microsoft to fill you in on every little detail of how they run their company just because once bought a copy of Flight Simulator?
 
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Hahahaha. Wow. You really think that £40 for a game gets you that? At this point, I am sure that you have no idea how "investment" or "projects" work (E: D is neither, by the way; you've purchased a product). FD, as they have stated over and over, are writing the game the way they want to. You can buy it or not. That is the limit of their responsibility to you.
Not fighting with you on your misquote and inability to understand that just the steam users alone provided 8 million plus in capital to the project. Not to mention at minimum double that amount of money the Original backers and non steam purchasers paid for the game. We didnt give them a nickle and expect them to build a rocket to mars here.

This is the type of issue I am talking about. People such as yourself try to find supposed holes in logic and reasoning, and then you attack them. Regardless to the fact that your are wrong. You will make an excuse and provide opinions even as the other side provide facts and real world experience.

So no, you are part of the problem and I am done with your negative attitude. Please fight somewhere else.
 
That's not how this works. Do you expect Microsoft to fill you in on every little detail of how they run their company just because once bought a copy of Flight Simulator?

Again Misquotes and taking things out of context.

This is a singular product. This is one game. This is not Microsoft. I am not asking for an explanation of their business plan. You have jumped to conclusions and made assumptions based upon mis information and opinion. I know for a fact that when my team and I develop an application for our company, that we must involve our stake holders. In the case of FDEV, the customers are your stake holders in this project. But then again I am sure you will try and twist and win a perceived conflict for the sake of doing so. Perhaps attack the validity of my statement about my involvement in software development. Either way I cant ever prove anything to me and you will never be able to convince me that your opinions are facts.

So please do not speak to me or with me until you can provide factual evidence or real examples of you opinions as being facts. Again an example as to why this community is negative. I suppose I am in the same boat seeing how I probably should just block you.
 
Again Misquotes and taking things out of context.

This is a singular product. This is one game. This is not Microsoft. I am not asking for an explanation of their business plan. You have jumped to conclusions and made assumptions based upon mis information and opinion. I know for a fact that when my team and I develop an application for our company, that we must involve our stake holders. In the case of FDEV, the customers are your stake holders in this project. But then again I am sure you will try and twist and win a perceived conflict for the sake of doing so. Perhaps attack the validity of my statement about my involvement in software development. Either way I cant ever prove anything to me and you will never be able to convince me that your opinions are facts.

So please do not speak to me or with me until you can provide factual evidence or real examples of you opinions as being facts. Again an example as to why this community is negative. I suppose I am in the same boat seeing how I probably should just block you.
So, are you one of the original Kickstarters? Or are you like me and just bought the game?
 
Again Misquotes and taking things out of context.
Right. So now you are accusing people of misquoting, when all we've done is directly quote what you wrote?

You are right, this conversation isn't worth having, as I have no clue what reality your head exists in. It certainly isn't the same one as the most of the rest of the human race, though...
 
Again Misquotes and taking things out of context.

This is a singular product. This is one game. This is not Microsoft. I am not asking for an explanation of their business plan. You have jumped to conclusions and made assumptions based upon mis information and opinion. I know for a fact that when my team and I develop an application for our company, that we must involve our stake holders. In the case of FDEV, the customers are your stake holders in this project. But then again I am sure you will try and twist and win a perceived conflict for the sake of doing so. Perhaps attack the validity of my statement about my involvement in software development. Either way I cant ever prove anything to me and you will never be able to convince me that your opinions are facts.

So please do not speak to me or with me until you can provide factual evidence or real examples of you opinions as being facts. Again an example as to why this community is negative. I suppose I am in the same boat seeing how I probably should just block you.
Ok, I lied. I'll bite one more time.

If your company writes software for clients, and the client has specified what they want, then in that case you absolutely will be expected to give updates and be completely transparent. However, in such circumstances, the client will usually be paying for the development and as such has a vested interest. It will certainly cost more than £40...

As I have already written, you simply bought a product. You are not "invested" in this game monetarily, and FD have absolutely no duty to keep you informed of what the future of said product will look like. Though as I also pointed out, FD do tell us, and indeed updated us very recently.
 
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And the Proton said "All threads end up negative"
Sorry if I've been a part of this. And sorry also to the OP as it looks like the thread got derailed a bit.

If it helps, I love E: D for all its flaws. I'll love it even more when FD fix it. However, I've been here since the Kickstarter and have seen how things are progressing. I'm glad I chose this Kickstarter project as opposed to another one... :)
 
I've recently come to the realisation that my occasional contributions to this forum have a significant negative bias. I'd like to correct that, or at least try to balance it a little.
If it makes you feel better, I'm probably too positive. I'm in love with the idea of ED, but haven't yet had enough time to embrace the reality that is ED. I suspect in a year from now, I'll be more balanced. In the meantime, I love you FDev!!! [heart] [heart] [heart] [heart]
 
One thing I hate about E: D is that I sit down to play it for like 20 minutes and get back up and find that 8 hours has gone by.

Damn it FD !! Damn it !!
 
I've recently come to the realisation that my occasional contributions to this forum have a significant negative bias. I'd like to correct that, or at least try to balance it a little.

I've made no secret of the fact that Elite Dangerous isn't what I'd expected Elite IV to be, as I waited over the years for its eventual appearance. I assumed - and, honestly, with little objective justification - that the next Elite game would further emphasise the 'simulation' aspects of Frontier and First Encounters over what I tend to think of as the more 'arcadey' elements.

'Immersion' is a word that's fallen out of favour in this and many other gaming forums, so let me instead refer to 'believability'. While I'm happy to accept the foundational conceits of any sci-fi space game - FTL travel being a key example - there are parts of ED that still lack believability for me. I've grumbled about each of them before, but they include the dogfighting combat style and the flight mechanics (such as the "top speed in space" issue).

And I struggle with little things, too, like the lack of a kill-rotation function in Flight Assist Off. Hard to imagine it, when such technology is a basic part of all 21st-century spacecraft. Or the lack of an HUD flight path indicator. Or the absence of a comprehensive autopilot. All things that have sparked my previous grumblings.

But this is what I wanted to balance. I'm doing the game down when there's really no need. That's been the problem with my previous posts. I've concentrated far more on things that I don't think are ideal, and tended to ignore the things I like - even love - about this game.

From here on I might well sound a bit fangirlish - but the truth is I like Elite Dangerous. I like it a lot. I've spent countless hours playing it, and although I've taken breaks I've always found myself returning to it. And there are certain parts of the game that are "samey" or lacking in depth - no realistic assessment could deny that, and some will say that's a spectacular understatement. But for reasons I'll get to in a moment, I have to say that I'm lucky, and for me the "depth" question isn't the problem I understand it is for some.

On balance, if I don't get caught up in the all-too-easy indulgence of picking at faults and having a good grumble, the positives of the game far outweigh the negatives. If they didn't, I wouldn't keep coming back. There wouldn't be a little part of my mind that's always living in the game world even when I'm not playing. And I certainly wouldn't be sitting here in my real life with an Empire pendant round my neck (the keyring from the store makes a really good one if you pop a suitable chain on it).

This game is absorbing. Perhaps not because of the story it leads you through, because it doesn't really have one. (And not because there'll be Thargoids one day, because honestly - sorry, Frontier - I'm not remotely interested in Thargoids as anything more than mysterious rumour, distorted and patchy history, and background urban legend.)

The game absorbs me because of little things - the aesthetics, for example: the visuals and the sound design in this game are breathtaking - and broader things. An example of the latter: there's something about the knowledge, as I go about my ordinary, real-world day, that there are people out there in that reality who share another world with me: fellow spacers, fighters, defenders, bounty hunters, truckers, explorers, fuel rats, and other such starry-eyed swashbucklers. There's a certain sense of community there, even though I don't generally play directly with others and don't tend to be on comms much. And I like a game that creates that sense, even if, as in this case, the community is a little... fractious. I liked the sense of shared experience in the original Elite and in its earlier sequels: the fact that we weren't all being pushed through the same story, but living our own.

In not-very-short-any-more, I've done a lot of griping about things that aren't perfect for me, but not given due attention to the fact that the game exists, it has a lot of merit and I've enjoyed many hours of playing it.

And I think, in light of all my negativity, it's worth taking a moment to show some appreciation for the game I enjoy, rather than harping on about the one that never was.

So thank you, Frontier, for your hard work putting this thing together and keeping the Elite franchise alive. Thanks to the graphic artists and sound designers who've created the feel of the world. Thanks to the story writers and artists, whether employed by FDev, licensed by them, or doing it just out of enthusiasm for the game world. Thank you to the third-party app developers who work so hard to provide tools to make the ED experience better and deeper.

Enough complaining from me. ED cannot be so things to all people. nothing can. So I'm going to fly my ship and live my space life and enjoy what I've got.

Right. End of fangirling.
I've come to this post late, but it was worth reading. It takes a lot of self-examination and discipline to write a post like that, so +1 from me. A great example to us all, really. [heart]
 
Complains that the flight model isn't believable enough. Asks for a flight assist computer that still does half the flying.

This isn't meant to be a dig - it's more an observation that there are varying levels of believimmersuspension and the devs are on a hiding to nothing if they try to please everyone all the time.

I think all flight assist should he disabled permanently for all Cmdrs. I know it's not going to happen though, so I just get on with playing the game and using the tools at my disposal to enjoy myself.
lol I'm supposed to believe that in 1000 years the onboard computers won't provide automatic rotational corrections to allow a atmosphere-like flight system in space? Pleeeeeeaase.
 
lol I'm supposed to believe that in 1000 years the onboard computers won't provide automatic rotational corrections to allow a atmosphere-like flight system in space? Pleeeeeeaase.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. That's what he is getting at.
 
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. That's what he is getting at.
I agree with that statement, but I'm not sure if I agree to how you're applying it in context here.... I enjoy sims, and I'm saying flight should not be restricted to FAOFF, and for realism purposes. I do not believe that advanced flight systems would retain 20th century shuttle thruster controls for fighters and frigates.
 
They sold their product to us, they work for us and nobody else. I am unsure you know how investment or projects work. You have no defense on this area of the dispute.
Well, that's FD told. Would you like DB to shine your shoes as well?
Get a grip please.

I'll be sure to remember this the next time Tesco sells me a Banana. I'll be sure to tell them to set free all the other Banana's because they are beholden to me.
All hail Banana!
 
Well, that's FD told. Would you like DB to shine your shoes as well?
Get a grip please.

I'll be sure to remember this the next time Tesco sells me a Banana. I'll be sure to tell them to set free all the other Banana's because they are beholden to me.
All hail Banana!
Are you daft? Do you own a business? Do you have customers? I'm not sure you understand how this works....
 
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