Imperial Slaves - A Proposition

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Irrespective of the tongue-in-cheek adherence to lore Imperial Slavery is, as it's actually depicted, abject chattel slavery. Our CMDRs can buy cans full of people and own them outright. The penality for mudering a Cutter full of Imperial slaves by jettisoning them into a station? The same as the penalty for littering...because they're just property, rightly owned (as far as the authority are concerned) by their purchaser.

Anyway, I have no problem with a game that enables one to play 'dark and monstrous' characters, nor with players who do. This is a fantasy game in a fantasy world. A world that is not supposed to represent one where our higher ideals have triumphed.

There are plenty of problems with the dichotomy between intended lore and in-game depiction, but the fundamental presence of horrors like slavery is not one of them.
 
Hmmmm, can one sum up the thread so far, what what

1. OP is a new account that claims to be a backer but only now decided to start playing that thing they invested money in
2. OP goes on huge rant that a work of fiction is somehow linked to real world things and that said work of fiction promotes negative IRL behaviour
3. Forum base mostly objects and calls OP out on the utter nonsense being projected by OP
4. Another new account pops into existence to defend OP

One does have to say that one smells a rat somewhere, what what?

One would also like to suggest that the forum is being harvested for political beliefs so that OP can use said statements to throw muck at game and player base.

Tread carefully fine Cmdrs and do ignore such posts in the future, what what

Toodly pipsky and a very stiff upper lip

The below is a telegram I have put together for the OP:

Dear OP, STOP

STOP

Tatty Bye, STOP
58399113.jpg
 
If I were you, instead of ranting about imaginary slavery in a video game, I would donate to Anti-Slavery Organisations and do other things to help victims in real life. But no, "Remove slavery from this video game, I FeEl OfFeNdEd!!!" :rolleyes:

If you consider slavery to be a problem to the point where it needs to be censored from video games, why not make a difference and do something about it in real life? You're not helping those 40+ million people by acting offended because the concept exists in video games.

Well, you are not me. I donate to charities and prioritize reduction of human suffering, but I also have a house and family to feed. I can afford to do this. I can't afford to single handedly stop slavery on earth.

I'd totally support any CG that meant to punish those who participate in slavery. It would be very interesting with vast implications for the game imo and we shouldn't shy away from considering such things.

It's imo much better than ret-conning something just because I had workplace training and just discovered slavery is bad.

Point taken. I therefore withdraw my earlier proposed solution, as I severely miscalculated the value of lore immersion to the community, and to be honest, it was a quick fix, and inelegant. Apologies.

I instead propose to Frontier that, in the fullness of time (and perhaps in conjunction with a Post-Odyssey release (that will likely correct mistakes and rebalance the inevitable unintended chaos) that they mount a realistic and long-term campaign through a series of linked CGs and accompanying Galnet releases (appropriately depicting the suffering of the victims of slavery in the Elite universe that engenders something approaching empathy) that pits a well positioned revolutionary leader (I'm thinking Aisling?) against the remaining slaver powers and factions. The intent is to place them into economic chaos and use the leverage to force them to stop trading in slaves. Goals could be associated with the acquisition of assets that would enable our protagonist (or antagonist if you support slavery) to steal the underlying technology used to develop the power play modules provided by slaver organizations, and offer those as the top 75% rewards for the CGs (perhaps with some engineering augment as well in order to provide an incentive to people who already have them) to those who support the protagonist's agenda. The antagonist offers the vanilla module, but also some extra credits, thereby preserving the debate intention of Elite's design.

There could be a sequence of CGs required, starting with data acquisition (submitting settlement data packages), then materials (to support the cause and build modules), and then combat (to force the institutional slave traders into a position where they are forced to negotiate but without completely undermining the power play mechanics in the galaxy), with the module being the final reward to anyone who participated in any of the three at an appropriate level. If all are successfully completed, that power would stop trading slaves, and the practice would become illegal and not appear as a commodity at a station in their controlled systems any longer. Then, this sequence could be repeated until broadly institutionalized slavery is wiped from the galaxy.

The funny thing about the comments about slavery being a fact of life, and the proposition that I am being unrealistic, is that it presupposes that there are no inspirational leaders, no heroes, no revolutionaries who step up and stop it. That is also unrealistic, as we have also learned from history. If a major superpower institutionalized slavery today, there would be global outrage. The media would assault that nation. There would be severe economic sanctions, isolation, and probably war over the issue. But 1300 years from now, nope, it's still a thing, and no one can do anything about it.

So if Frontier is unable to do anything about it directly due the negative repercussions to community immersion, let the community decide and do something about it in the game. And maybe add some additional fun at the same time.

So there you go, a small, infant idea that could fix the issue. And with that, I'm done defending myself or trying to make suggestions. That's my best effort at trying to bridge the gaps.
 
Hmmmm, can one sum up the thread so far, what what

1. OP is a new account that claims to be a backer but only now decided to start playing that thing they invested money in
2. OP goes on huge rant that a work of fiction is somehow linked to real world things and that said work of fiction promotes negative IRL behaviour
3. Forum base mostly objects and calls OP out on the utter nonsense being projected by OP
4. Another new account pops into existence to defend OP

One does have to say that one smells a rat somewhere, what what?

One would also like to suggest that the forum is being harvested for political beliefs so that OP can use said statements to throw muck at game and player base.

Tread carefully fine Cmdrs and do ignore such posts in the future, what what

Toodly pipsky and a very stiff upper lip

The below is a telegram I have put together for the OP:

Dear OP, STOP

STOP

Tatty Bye, STOP
No I'm a legit new account and this is something I've discussed in CG System chat and in my squadron.

My basis around this whole subject is that it is an extremely compelling thing to watch our community discuss slavery in any facet.

A mining faction takes advantage of unknowing new recruits and gets labeled as slavers and banned.
The game features "slaves", in whatever context they are present in the game.

And then most compelling of all is the argument as to whether they should be in the game or not. It rarely escalates to "how do we abolish slavery in game?" or "how do we make it less appealing to participate in slave trading?"
Quite often these discussions dissolve into discrediting statements and personal attacks.
 
Well, you are not me. I donate to charities and prioritize reduction of human suffering, but I also have a house and family to feed. I can afford to do this. I can't afford to single handedly stop slavery on earth.



Point taken. I therefore withdraw my earlier proposed solution, as I severely miscalculated the value of lore immersion to the community, and to be honest, it was a quick fix, and inelegant. Apologies.

I instead propose to Frontier that, in the fullness of time (and perhaps in conjunction with a Post-Odyssey release (that will likely correct mistakes and rebalance the inevitable unintended chaos) that they mount a realistic and long-term campaign through a series of linked CGs and accompanying Galnet releases (appropriately depicting the suffering of the victims of slavery in the Elite universe that engenders something approaching empathy) that pits a well positioned revolutionary leader (I'm thinking Aisling?) against the remaining slaver powers and factions. The intent is to place them into economic chaos and use the leverage to force them to stop trading in slaves. Goals could be associated with the acquisition of assets that would enable our protagonist (or antagonist if you support slavery) to steal the underlying technology used to develop the power play modules provided by slaver organizations, and offer those as the top 75% rewards for the CGs (perhaps with some engineering augment as well in order to provide an incentive to people who already have them) to those who support the protagonist's agenda. The antagonist offers the vanilla module, but also some extra credits, thereby preserving the debate intention of Elite's design.

There could be a sequence of CGs required, starting with data acquisition (submitting settlement data packages), then materials (to support the cause and build modules), and then combat (to force the institutional slave traders into a position where they are forced to negotiate but without completely undermining the power play mechanics in the galaxy), with the module being the final reward to anyone who participated in any of the three at an appropriate level. If all are successfully completed, that power would stop trading slaves, and the practice would become illegal and not appear as a commodity at a station in their controlled systems any longer. Then, this sequence could be repeated until broadly institutionalized slavery is wiped from the galaxy.

The funny thing about the comments about slavery being a fact of life, and the proposition that I am being unrealistic, is that it presupposes that there are no inspirational leaders, no heroes, no revolutionaries who step up and stop it. That is also unrealistic, as we have also learned from history. If a major superpower institutionalized slavery today, there would be global outrage. The media would assault that nation. There would be severe economic sanctions, isolation, and probably war over the issue. But 1300 years from now, nope, it's still a thing, and no one can do anything about it.

So if Frontier is unable to do anything about it directly due the negative repercussions to community immersion, let the community decide and do something about it in the game. And maybe add some additional fun at the same time.

So there you go, a small, infant idea that could fix the issue. And with that, I'm done defending myself or trying to make suggestions. That's my best effort at trying to bridge the gaps.
Like I said in my first post here, its not in a leaders best interest (or societies) interest to ban slavery in its various forms in ED, since it appears at one level or another across the game.

Some powers ban it, but leave question marks as to what happens to people at risk of slavery. Some powers like Grom oppose slavery but tolerate Imperial Slaves as he views it as a cultural thing, probably just as most Imperial Powers bar one think- Imperial Slavery being a safety net. One power uses the threat of slavery as a weapon, while others use economic slavery.

So, you'll never get rid of slaves or exploitation since 3307s society is built on it, and forms a cornerstone of the game.
 
there are no inspirational leaders, no heroes, no revolutionaries who step up and stop it.

There are.
Join Aisling and help her reform the Empire and eliminate the Indentured Servitude System

from the Galnet story in 30 Jul 3305:
Princess Aisling offered a wry smile along with her explanation: "I'm well aware of the irony of an anti-slavery organisation hiring Imperial slaves. We do this only to prevent further suffering at Port Isabelle and undo some of the damage caused by Autonomy. Allow me to specify that this is a practical solution to a problem of the Empire's own making. The indentured servitude system may seem honourable, but – as recent events prove – it leaves people vulnerable to abuse and neglect. Unchain remains dedicated to replacing the barbaric practice of slavery with more civilised welfare and employment programmes."
 
I feel this discussion just keeps spiraling out of its intent.

My understanding was that OP opposes slavery in-game.
Any attempt to shame or discredit this belief is just gross.

Yes it is a game, yes bad things exist in ED, other games and IRL.
But none of this discredits or lessens OP's thoughts and beliefs.

I also don't like slavery existing in ED and no one here has presented me with any good evidence as to why it should be allowed to continue in the galaxy. I agree that Ret-Con is not the route I would pursue but I find all the personal attacks and general contrarianism a bit gross and in no way helps us further this discussion.

I will pursue alternate avenues to abolish slavery in the galaxy.
 
I think, to be fair, this isn't the first time this question/issue has been raised. We all roll our ours when we see a new 'Why can't I have a Cobra MkIV thread', and the responses are normally sarcastic, mocking and that is fine. This subject though is slightly different. People may not know the lore, people may not see it as you do, 'it's just a game', it is something that people often have strong feelings about. In any sense, it is an emotive subject, one, the real world has yet to resolve. Lines will get blurred. On most any other subject related to the game, I find ridicule funny. I just think on this question, (remembering that we have all seen the answers before) we could try to handle them a bit better. Rather than mocking the poster, rather than dismissing them, rather than doing detective work to cast suspicions about who they are, we could just helpfully point out all of the above in as calm way.

I know that a lot of times these questions get asked in an emotional plea style, we don't have to answer with the emotional Intensity that the question may have been asked in. Just a thought.
 
May I suggest harvesting all the 'indentured servants' and using science to turn them into Cobra mk IV's?

I am sure that Fdev have a few eggheads around who can science this suggestion, what what?

Tatty bye
300px-Something_of_a_Scientist.jpg


I say we melt down all the prisoners with jobs and turn their melted remains into nano-bio-polymers twelve-teen times stronger than the current hulls we use and create new corba ships out of that.

what who toodle squeek old steam.
 
Hmmmm, can one sum up the thread so far, what what

1. OP is a new account that claims to be a backer but only now decided to start playing that thing they invested money in
2. OP goes on huge rant that a work of fiction is somehow linked to real world things and that said work of fiction promotes negative IRL behaviour
3. Forum base mostly objects and calls OP out on the utter nonsense being projected by OP
4. Another new account pops into existence to defend OP

One does have to say that one smells a rat somewhere, what what?

One would also like to suggest that the forum is being harvested for political beliefs so that OP can use said statements to throw muck at game and player base.

Tread carefully fine Cmdrs and do ignore such posts in the future, what what

Toodly pipsky and a very stiff upper lip

The below is a telegram I have put together for the OP:

Dear OP, STOP

STOP

Tatty Bye, STOP
Just to set this one to rest because outlandish internet conspiracies annoy me.

(I got the pirate package, btw)

As to my alleged duplicate presence, I'm sure that the moderators are on the lookout for such a thing. Honestly, how ridiculous. Since you can't contribute to the on-topic discussion on your own merits, you resort to nonsense. Be better than that.
 

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I feel this discussion just keeps spiraling out of its intent.

My understanding was that OP opposes slavery in-game.
Any attempt to shame or discredit this belief is just gross.

Yes it is a game, yes bad things exist in ED, other games and IRL.
But none of this discredits or lessens OP's thoughts and beliefs.

I also don't like slavery existing in ED and no one here has presented me with any good evidence as to why it should be allowed to continue in the galaxy. I agree that Ret-Con is not the route I would pursue but I find all the personal attacks and general contrarianism a bit gross and in no way helps us further this discussion.

I will pursue alternate avenues to abolish slavery in the galaxy.

I oppose slavery as well
But i dont try to force my opinion into the work of fiction of other authors and demand they alter their work.

OP didn't asked the community to join his faction and fight against in-game slavery, they asked the developer to alter their work and retcon slavery
And this is what most people are against since it can go downhill really fast.
 
Well, you are not me. I donate to charities and prioritize reduction of human suffering, but I also have a house and family to feed. I can afford to do this. I can't afford to single handedly stop slavery on earth.
Well done, but I think you replied from the wrong account. I quoted @Panda The Gray - a bit confusing when you have multiple accounts on forums, right? :D
 
I'm not making any claims here, but the mere possession of a receipt doesn't remove the possibility of being some old salt trolling with a new account. 😉
What do I need to do to prove that this is my own account and I'm an individual trying to express my own thoughts and opinions?
As I said before, I'm legit new and not too savy to the site yet.
 
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