PvP In defense of murder (in game)

[Shinji Ikari]

Try this: Forget about everything you know about his conversation, what you think about us, the game.
Now read this:
"Bully-someone who hurts or frightens someone else, often over a period of time, and often forcing them to do something that they do not want to do"
Now read, without any bias, OP, and tell me: would you not describe his actions as bullying?
Just stop there, don't take it further.

Now, you might believe that he was in every right to do that an play like that. move nevertheless to pray on weaker player, when you gain nothing in game terms an he loses something. move of his game character, of course - in RL he just pressed buttons - nothing wrong with that.

What you did is just as smart as taking the diccionary definition of life & ending all phylosophical & scientific discussions on it.

 

[Florenus]

What you did is just as smart as taking the diccionary definition of life & ending all phylosophical & scientific discussions on it.

I honestly have no idea what you were just trying to say.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I honestly have no idea what you were just trying to say.

That the diccionary is more of a linguistic reference rather than a moral ruler.

 

[Florenus]

That the diccionary is more of a linguistic reference rather than a moral ruler.

Sure, but aside from judging morality of such actions, and getting into whether doing it in game is different than doing it in RL, you will not object to describing OP as bullying, right?
That's what dictionary reference is for. So we would not argue on how to call something, because it has common definition.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Sure, but aside from judging morality of such actions, and getting into whether doing it in game is different than doing it in RL, you will not object to describing OP as bullying, right?
That's what dictionary reference is for. So we would not argue on how to call something, because it has common definition.

Once more, the diccionary is about as superficial as it gets with definitions, that's why I posted the life example, even though the diccionary provides a definition of life we still can't completely agree on what is & isn't life.

 

[Florenus]

Once more, the diccionary is about as superficial as it gets with definitions, that's why I posted the life example, even though the diccionary provides a definition of life we still can't completely agree on what is & isn't life.

I see. Therfore it seems we are unable to understand eachother.
I can use some random words now, because we would not be able to agree what they mean anyway.

I think you're overcomplicating. We're not trying to determine if quartz is alive, and therefore redefine the understanding of life.

 

[Perseus]

Try this: Forget about everything you know about his conversation, what you think about us, the game.
Now read this:
"Bully-someone who hurts or frightens someone else, often over a period of time, and often forcing them to do something that they do not want to do"
Now read, without any bias, OP, and tell me: would you not describe his actions as bullying?
Just stop there, don't take it further.

Now, you might believe that he was in every right to do that an play like that. move nevertheless to pray on weaker player, when you gain nothing in game terms an he loses something. move of his game character, of course - in RL he just pressed buttons - nothing wrong with that.

Sorry, I find your thought experiment ludicrous in the extreme and just an attempt to force your position.
Context is the contention we're having about bullying. This is a game where people can choose the level of interaction in addition to arming/preparing themselves.
What's really ish is appropriating and associating a serious RL issue with a controllable, avoidable pastime that we enjoy.
You really should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Florenus]

Sorry, I find your thought experiment ludicrous in the extreme and just an attempt to force your position.

To force my position? I'm trying to make you understand my point of view if you're willing to listen. It's not a competition.
I suppose you have similiar approach to life issues as to games (competitive only), which is funny enough considering how much you're trying to persuade me that games and life have no common points.

Maybe its my fault, maybe I'm failing at communication, or maybe it's you who has problems understanding couple of rather simple sentences. I refuse to try again. Go shoot some spaceships, I'm sure you're good at it.

 

[Perseus]

To force my position? I'm trying to make you understand my point of view if you're willing to listen. It's not a competition.
I suppose you have similiar approach to life issues as to games (competitive only), which is funny enough considering how much you're trying to persuade me that games and life have no common points.

Maybe its my fault, maybe I'm failing at communication, or maybe it's you who has problems understanding couple of rather simple sentences. I refuse to try again. Go shoot some spaceships, I'm sure you're good at it.

Oh,meooow, that's caty!
I do comprehend your point of view but I actually believe it's farcical. Let me highlight my quintessential point for you.
Computer games are not real life. We choose to partake in them (and such games usually have preference options).
Bullying occurs in environments we cannot escape (think school, the workplace, family life etc).
Choice - when you have a choice. That is the point! (modes - hint, hint )?
So who's fault is this perceived inability to comprehend? Mine or yours?

 

[Florenus]

Bullying occurs in environments we cannot escape (think school, the workplace, family life etc).

Seriously? This is where you see the difference?

So if you'll go to a park and you'll encounter a bully, then it's not bullying, because you can always choose not go to that park?

Again, Seriously?

That's why we have definitions, so you don't make yourself new ones and assume others understand things the way you do.

 

[Perseus]

Seriously? This is where you see the difference?

So if you'll go to a park and you'll encounter a bully, then it's not bullying, because you can always choose not go to that park?

Again, Seriously?

That's why we have definitions, so you don't make yourself new ones and assume others understand things the way you do.

Is the park a game or an environment?
Try again.

In addition, stop cherry picking parts of my post to force your position. Quote and address in full, please.

 

[Florenus]

Is the park a game or an environment?
Try again.

In addition, stop cherry picking parts of my post to force your position. Quote and address in full, please.

Force my position? I don't understand what you're on about. Really. Where does this come from?
I've cut the rest of your post, because this was the part I was referring to. There's (SOURCE) link for everyone interested to check. And I suppose you know what you said.
But in future I'll try to emphasize those parts somehow.

Park. "Large area of land with grass and trees, usually surrounded by fences or walls, and specially arranged so that people can walk in it for pleasure or children can play in it".
You don't have to be there. If someone will make your stay there uncomfortable, forcing you to leave, it's not bullying, in light of your theory, because you don't need to be there. You can always go to another park, or stay home.

 

[Perseus]

Force my position? I don't understand what you're on about. Really. Where does this come from?
I've cut the rest of your post, because this was the part I was referring to. There's (SOURCE) link for everyone interested to check. And I suppose you know what you said.
But in future I'll try to emphasize those parts somehow.

Park. "Large area of land with grass and trees, usually surrounded by fences or walls, and specially arranged so that people can walk in it for pleasure or children can play in it".
You don't have to be there. If someone will make your stay there uncomfortable, forcing you to leave, it's not bullying, in light of your theory, because you don't need to be there. You can always go to another park, or stay home.

I never said that if you encountered a bully in a park it wasn't bullying. This is pure you attempting to solidify and fortify your position by introducing unrelated criteria and claiming I said it - talk about strawman! Lol.
I spoke about choice in ED (and yes, you could avoid a park if you were being bullied there and were unable or unwilling to address it - it'd be the sensible thing to do, regardless of cultural or moralistic theory, don't you think?).
If you'd read my post (and maybe addressed it in it's entirety, instead of cherry picking) you'd understand I spoke about bullying in essentially unavoidable environments and, with that in mind, open mode on ED ain't one of them!

 

[Florenus]

I never said that if you encountered a bully in a park it wasn't bullying. This is pure you attempting to solidify and fortify your position by introducing unrelated criteria and claiming I said it - talk about strawman! Lol.
I spoke about choice in ED (and yes, you could avoid a park if you were being bullied there and were unable or unwilling to address it - it'd be the sensible thing to do, regardless of cultural or moralistic theory, don't you think?).
If you'd read my post (and maybe addressed it in it's entirety, instead of cherry picking) you'd understand I spoke about bullying in essentially unavoidable environments and, with that in mind, open mode on ED ain't one of them!

I seriously feel like I'm in Twilight Zone.
What the hell are you talking about????

I never said that if you encountered a bully in a park it wasn't bullying.

Who said that you said that??

This is pure you attempting to solidify and fortify your position by introducing unrelated criteria and claiming I said it - talk about strawman! Lol.

I don't even know what is this.
You wrote: "Bullying occurs in environments we cannot escape (think school, the workplace, family life etc)."
therefore I provided an example featuring environment you can escape or avoid in hope you'll see that your theory is full of holes.

(and yes, you could avoid a park if you were being bullied there and were unable or unwilling to address it - it'd be the sensible thing to do, regardless of cultural or moralistic theory, don't you think?)

but it still would be bullying! And it still would be rather wrong. What are you discussing, actually, because it seems we're having different conversations entirely!

the fact that you can avoid something one way or the other DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OF AN ISSUE!
if that would be the case, shooting people in the streets would be fine, since they can and should stay home.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Seriously? This is where you see the difference?

So if you'll go to a park and you'll encounter a bully, then it's not bullying, because you can always choose not go to that park?

Again, Seriously?

That's why we have definitions, so you don't make yourself new ones and assume others understand things the way you do.

You didn't pay to go to the park did you?

Also, can you avoid going to school or to work?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

(Headdesks)

 

[Florenus]

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I still don't see the benefit of trying to make people feel ashamed for something perfectly legal, non-harming & avoidable on many ​levels.

 

[Perseus]

I seriously feel like I'm in Twilight Zone.
What the hell are you talking about????

Who said that you said that??

I don't even know what is this.
You wrote: "Bullying occurs in environments we cannot escape (think school, the workplace, family life etc)."
therefore I provided an example featuring environment you can escape or avoid in hope you'll see that your theory is full of holes.

but it still would be bullying! And it still would be rather wrong. What are you discussing, actually, because it seems we're having different conversations entirely!

the fact that you can avoid something one way or the other DOESN'T MAKE IT LESS OF AN ISSUE!
if that would be the case, shooting people in the streets would be fine, since they can and should stay home.

Good grief!
Shooting someone in a computer game carries the same weighting as shooting someone in a street (or maybe a park - you do seem fluid with the environments being equal).
Let me try again; Which environment is a fantasy one? Is it the computer game or one of the tangible places we've mentioned?

 

[Florenus]

I still don't see the benefit of trying to make people feel ashamed for something perfectly legal, non-harming & avoidable on many ​levels.

Where exactly did I try to make you feel ashamed?
If you feel ashamed then maybe you did something wrong?

Good grief!
Shooting someone in a computer game carries the same weighting as shooting someone in a street (or maybe a park - you do seem fluid with the environments being equal).
Let me try again; Which environment is a fantasy one? Is it the computer game or one of the tangible places we've mentioned?

You tend to understand my sentences in rather surreal manner. Or rather don't understand them at all.