In the Beta Spirit...

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Perhaps a reason for people posting about a game they no longer play is because the thing they enjoyed was needlessly removed and that they want it back? The functionality can be reinstated without impacting on other players, it makes sense that it is put back in. It doesn't make sense that it was removed, all that seems to have achieved is to frustrate players that were previously not complaining.

I agree the name calling is frustrating on both sides.
 
Dev's made changes you don't agree with? Seriously, just go play something else. I was a World of Warships player until they made a complete load of dogs out of carriers. I didn't whine about it, I just moved on. I bought NMS on release. We know how that went, but you won't find a single post from me anywhere about it, I moved on.
 
Dev's made changes you don't agree with? Seriously, just go play something else. I was a World of Warships player until they made a complete load of dogs out of carriers. I didn't whine about it, I just moved on. I bought NMS on release. We know how that went, but you won't find a single post from me anywhere about it, I moved on.
Or just put it back in? It'd be easy, create no problems, and would allow those that bought & played the game in a way they enjoyed to be able to continue to play that way without disrupting other playstyles.

Those who were unhappy with the old discovery process now have another method they can use if they prefer it. There is no reason not to do it. I imagine people no longer playing ED are already playing other games, contributing to forums does not preclude this.

This is not Hotel California, there is an easy fix to this problem. And yet still it persists. I am not going to stop wanting these old modules to be put back into outfitting. Describing it as whining does not change my ongoing desire for this simple & obvious solution to be implemented.
 
Or just put it back in? It'd be easy...
...
...this simple & obvious solution to be implemented.
Not arguing against your wanting it back, that has been a constant with you and well explained on many occasions.

Naturally, there is a but...

Although the 'honk' still exists it doesn't necessarily follow that the remainder of the ADS code remains in the game in a useable state following the 3.3 update. I hazard a guess that when Will (I think) told us the ADS wouldn't return wasn't solely because they were doing a 'hard sell' on the FSS but because the majority of the ADS coding had been replaced.

Seeing how even introducing very minor changes into the game recently has triggered 'major' (not my opinion - but..) 'game breaking bugs' would it make sense to just chop the old system into the code base as an 'optional' and possibly break much more?

Maybe after the 2020 update, if the code is as 'stable' as is being hinted, a beta could be introduced reinstating the ADS as an optional to test both interoperability and measure take-up of use, but even I think it not likely to happen, sadly.

(If my wording reads anything other than neutral, kindly treat it as neutral :) )
 
I've read more than once that FDev have ZERO plans to restore the ADS. Easy or hard to restore has nothing to do with it, they said no. Why not accept that and move on? Also, Rakatcher makes a good point about the codebase.

(No claims made about my tone, take it how you will.)
 
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Not arguing against your wanting it back, that has been a constant with you and well explained on many occasions.

Naturally, there is a but...

Although the 'honk' still exists it doesn't necessarily follow that the remainder of the ADS code remains in the game in a useable state following the 3.3 update. I hazard a guess that when Will (I think) told us the ADS wouldn't return wasn't solely because they were doing a 'hard sell' on the FSS but because the majority of the ADS coding had been replaced.

Seeing how even introducing very minor changes into the game recently has triggered 'major' (not my opinion - but..) 'game breaking bugs' would it make sense to just chop the old system into the code base as an 'optional' and possibly break much more?

Maybe after the 2020 update, if the code is as 'stable' as is being hinted, a beta could be introduced reinstating the ADS as an optional to test both interoperability and measure take-up of use, but even I think it not likely to happen, sadly.

(If my wording reads anything other than neutral, kindly treat it as neutral :) )
'The code' is already in the game, I use it daily in the bubble. The only difference is effectively a filter that excludes untagged bodies and those with an NPC population above the threshold. That this functionality (in the bubble) was included is what prompted me to investigate the justification for removing the old functionality during the 3.3 beta. Others arrived at the same conclusion separately.
 
Why not accept that and move on?
Why not add them back in? Why were they removed in the first place? No justification has been provided. I contend that is because there is none, and the only thing removing them has achieved is to frustrate some players who were not frustrated by this functionality, to placate those who were complaining.

So here I am, presenting a reasonable and straightforward solution to a significant issue. Put those old modules back into outfitting, and reinstate that functionality in virgin & partially explored systems that remains in the game in tagged systems, but in an optional way so that those who do not like it are not further frustrated themselves.
 
'The code' is already in the game, I use it daily in the bubble. The only difference is effectively a filter that excludes untagged bodies and those with an NPC population above the threshold. That this functionality (in the bubble) was included is what prompted me to investigate the justification for removing the old functionality during the 3.3 beta. Others arrived at the same conclusion separately.
No, the same functionality apparently exists, whether it's the same code is a question only FDev can answer - and they clearly have no interest.
 
No, the same functionality apparently exists, whether it's the same code is a question only FDev can answer - and they clearly have no interest.
Yeah. We don't know anything with absolute certainty. All we can do for anything is to extrapolate from what we observe.

But what we do know is that it was stable & reliable code for several years, and that the functionality remains in the game, just no longer in all systems. This is what I based my solution to this issue on. As feasibility studies go that's about as good a candidate for implementation as it gets.
 
'The code' is already in the game, I use it daily in the bubble. The only difference is effectively a filter that excludes untagged bodies and those with an NPC population above the threshold. That this functionality (in the bubble) was included is what prompted me to investigate the justification for removing the old functionality during the 3.3 beta. Others arrived at the same conclusion separately.
Were you able to compare the game code from pre-3.3 to 3.3, pick out the ADS blocks and conclusively prove that they existed in both versions?
I know your arguments, but even I worded my reasoning such:
...but because the majority of the ADS coding had been replaced.
Just because part of the functionality of the previous version appears in the game it is not a positive indicator that the entire coding exists, if you are an accomplished games programmer and able to point to the entire code being present in 3.3 I will withdraw my speculation and accede to the fact, then actively support the requests to bring it back.
 
Were you able to compare the game code from pre-3.3 to 3.3, pick out the ADS blocks and conclusively prove that they existed in both versions?
I know your arguments, but even I worded my reasoning such:


Just because part of the functionality of the previous version appears in the game it is not a positive indicator that the entire coding exists, if you are an accomplished games programmer and able to point to the entire code being present in 3.3 I will withdraw my speculation and accede to the fact, then actively support the requests to bring it back.
See my post directly above. I guess I submitted it while you were writing yours.

Implying a solution is a bad one because of the code is a weak argument that could be generically applied to any proposal. It is not a design constraint - or shouldn't be. The Spaghetti Code thing is a commonly stated view that is supported by issues like the ones that happened when ARX rewards were added to the game.

For many suggestions there would be a requirement to have a feasibility study - in case of unexpected outcomes. In this case it would be reinstating or extending existing functionality, any logical compatibility issues are already known.
 
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Yeah, that's right, just ignore the Dev comments on bringing back the ADS, if you campaign enough, surely they will listen to you..

I understand that you want the ADS back.. Hell, I wanted NMS to be the product on release that was marketed.. It wasn't, I moved on.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. - attributed to Einstein.
 
At the rate I'm going with Ignoring people, it's going to get a awfully quiet around here.
/QUOTE]

.. and the next time you look around the lonely world you create you still won't see that people complain when they're dissatisfied not when they're satisfied, and of our PG I'm the only one who still uses the forums, the others left the game and the forum behind, my guess is that they're not alone and many others have just walked away too, it would have been better to keep those players happy,
Product development depends on consumer feedback to go forward, sometimes you have to re assess an area of your product and go take it a step backwards to go forward!

If you don't agree with this then you have every right to say so, I support your choice to voice your concerns, but why resort to name calling and or ignoring people just because you don't agree with what they say?

EDIT: I don't understand what's going wrong with the quote process but I'll highlight my comment in orange to make it clear that it's not Kelster who posted those words
 
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Perhaps a reason for people posting about a game they no longer play is because the thing they enjoyed was needlessly removed and that they want it back? The functionality can be reinstated without impacting on other players, it makes sense that it is put back in. It doesn't make sense that it was removed, all that seems to have achieved is to frustrate players that were previously not complaining.

I agree the name calling is frustrating on both sides.
This really is the ONLY reason I come to the forums... to see if the future holds, and to add any leverage I can to changes that would see me play ED again, I thoroughly enjoyed my 2000 plus hours of playtime and I wish to get that back, why shouldn't I, it was great!

I guess the forum users who support these changes are kind of holding a vigil, keeping the lights on, for an area of the game that they feel needs re-adjustment.
 
This really is the ONLY reason I come to the forums... to see if the future holds, and to add any leverage I can to changes that would see me play ED again, I thoroughly enjoyed my 2000 plus hours of playtime and I wish to get that back, why shouldn't I, it was great!
I hope they change the FSS so you can play the game how you want. No need to add the ADS back in for that from what I can gather.

I guess the forum users who support these changes are kind of holding a vigil, keeping the lights on, for an area of the game that they feel needs re-adjustment.
I doubt that many that support the changes are holding any vigil at all.
 
I hope they change the FSS so you can play the game how you want. No need to add the ADS back in for that from what I can gather.


I doubt that many that support the changes are holding any vigil at all.
Oh, but they are, and you keep jumping in to silence their prayers to the almighty FDev
"Oh Lord (Braben)... please send forth a change in the blight that you cast upon us, end it and bring back the ADS so we may enjoy life once more"
 
I guess the forum users who support these changes are kind of holding a vigil, keeping the lights on, for an area of the game that they feel needs re-adjustment.
I'm more about the general principle. The longer FDev leaves issues unaddressed, hoping the problem people will just give up & leave, the more determined I am to demonstrate that problems do not go away because they are ignored. There are plenty of other long standing issues that don't affect me (powerplay, combat logging), this one does.

What else might be changed on a whim? We are no longer experimenting with a beta here, we are looking at a mature game with an established playerbase. Big, sweeping changes have ramifications that should be addressed. They were not addressed, even though the solution is straightforward and still nearly a year later easily implemented without significant impact (other than the inevitable complaints over capitulation to an entirely reasonable request).
 
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