Increase Supercruise Acceleration and Top Speed to No More than 20 Seconds AFK

[DrGrib]

This is my counter-proposal to

• Hyperspace Jump within system?

Advantages of this over In-System Jumps

• Can still enjoy smooth in-system transition between astronomical bodies
• Preserves interdiction mechanic
• Can still reward missions for longer distance from star
• Is much easier for Frontier to implement

Reducing Boredom

This reduces the problem of boredom which is explained articulately and fairly by Obsidian Ant here

• Should In-System Space Travel Be Fun?
• My Problem With Long Travel Times In Star Citizen And Elite Dangerous

Sense of Scale

Within those videos, Obsidian Ant provides an excellent rebuttal to people who think long travel times are necessary to demonstrate a sense of scale in space.

To summarize: travel time isn't the only way (or the best way, imo) to convey scale and Space Engine retains a sense of scale while allowing travel speeds of 320 million light years per second.

My opinion is that the Milky Way galaxy has such a massive number of star systems that even traveling at the extreme speeds of Space Engine can't possibly diminish its sense of scale. There are just too many stars to travel to. Inserting long in-system travel between these traversals of star systems actually detracts from our ability to appreciate that particular sense of scale because we spend less time visiting more star systems and more time staring blankly at a screen traveling in-system.

Acceptance Criteria - No more than 20 seconds of AFK

If there is ever a point at which a player can take their hands off the controller or keyboard and watch a full 20 seconds of video while still safely reaching their destination, the in-system travel is too long. So that could be the criteria that Frontier could use for testing: can you take your hands off the controller or keyboard to watch a full 20 seconds of video without looking at your screen and still safely reach any destination within a system? If so, the acceleration and top speed still need to be increased.

Why 20 seconds? That is a short enough time that it (hopefully, pending testing) isn't boring but is still smooth enough to appreciate the transition between astronomical bodies.

It also allows time for the interdiction mechanism to still work. Interdiction can scale to the distance between astronomical bodies. The longer the distance between bodies, the faster the travel time between them. Interdictors would scale with travelers and travel the same speeds.

 

[VR Golgot]

Props for the endeavour here!

I agree this could be a neat, and very achievable, solution potentially.

Part of me (possibly unrealistically) wants more if they were to revamp it, but this would certainly get us 'back in the box' in terms of being near areas of potential activity etc.

I think the only real downside is that it would be an enforced change. IE the ED players who actively like the dead time aspect would lose their preferred style to allow ours. In an ideal solution both styles would be possible, just with pros and cons. (Putting us back into 'extensive dev' territory though of course )

 

[DrGrib]

I think the only real downside is that it would be an enforced change. IE the ED players who actively like the dead time aspect would lose their preferred style to allow ours. In an ideal solution both styles would be possible, just with pros and cons. (Putting us back into 'extensive dev' territory though of course )

One possibility would be to just raise caps on acceleration and top speed. That way players who still want to travel slower can just lower their throttle to achieve a lower speed.

 

[lenna]

@DrGrib: I disagree with the fundamental premise of what you seem to be wanting to achieve.

Travel time is not intended to convey scale, it is a fundamental consequence of it.

Had a quick look at space engine, not impressed with it and do not see any reason to try to copy any part of it.

As for no more than 20 seconds AFK, I disagree with this as a hard limit or any amount of time as a hard limit for AFK during travel. Not that I would leave the game running unattended for 20 seconds intentionally but the point is any such limit would be artificial and for unavoidably long journeys it would make matters worse, not better. That being said, I have nothing specifically against radiant signal spawns being at most 20-30s apart but even that could start to feel artificial and unnatural.

TL;DR I am diametrically opposed to this proposal. The current incident interval and radiant signal spawn mechanics are balanced and reasonable as is, FD have already catered too much for the instant gratification crowd with certain other changes.

 

[DrGrib]

TL;DR I am diametrically opposed to this proposal. The current incident interval and radiant signal spawn mechanics are balanced and reasonable as is, FD have already catered too much for the instant gratification crowd with certain other changes.

So just to be clear: you prefer the in-system travel to be constructed in a way that you could take your hands off of the keyboard or controller, completely divert your attention away from the game for more than 20 seconds to watch a video outside of the game, and still safely reach your destination?

 

[nanite2000]

Great suggestion OP!

I’d also be happy if FDev just doubled SuperCruise acceleration and top speed to still preserve the relative sense of scale without requiring people to wait around for an unreasonably long time.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

NO - DONT!

Simply put, apart from the fact that the OP's suggestion would detract from the percievable scale of the galaxy, and instantly deprive any sort of interdiction opportunities, powerplay, piracy, PvP, Hostile BGS, Assassinations, "liberate XYZ cargo", and numerous other aspects of the game would be effectively locked out by such a modification to supercruise mechanics. Put it this way, you drop into system, hit the throttles turn around towards your target and 20secs doing a "safe disengage" at <1.00Mm from your destination, what chance does that give a federal agent/cop/pirate/bounty hunter/murder-hobo/CG Troll to get on your 6 and pull an interdiction on you? That would mean the only sources for combat would be electing to drop in on a Nav Beacon, RES, or a CZ.

If they do that the might as well rename the game Elite:Cotton-Wool.

 

[VR Golgot]

@DrGrib: I disagree with the fundamental premise of what you seem to be wanting to achieve.

Travel time is not intended to convey scale, it is a fundamental consequence of it.

Travel time is certainly one way to convey scale, but it's not the only way:

Spoiler

The whole 'space must involve long empty journeys to represent its big, empty nature' conceit is such a blunt, unimaginative take, to my mind.

If you think about all the other ways FDev has successfully represented scale we can see that transit times & content levels can flex and still retain the awe. Think of hyperspace jumps. They're the ultimate shortcut, but thanks to things like galmap routes & representations, the skybox shifting as we travel, the tiny-foreshadowed sun of the Hyperspace animation becoming the giant monstrosity of arrival... a suitable amount of awe and scale is retained. (And really, would you want to spend hours at a time traversing to each star, nay a realistic light year or two? . The payoff is pretty effective and affective...)

The same can be said of systems themselves, if not more so. Look at the way the new planetary colourings have added another 'bump map' style layer of realistic mountainous-ness to our gnarled friends, making speedy passes near them more convincingly the act of a tiny craft near a giant rock (despite our mind's eye being unaccustomed to such things). Speed near giant objects is an effective tool for conveying scale, when done right.

This is extended further by the celestial timings of the clockwork orrery. The shadow cast upon our station by a moon moving into eclipse does as much to convince us of the enormity of our environs as any chilly 10 minute trek towards a beacon of distant activity. There are many tools we can play with here...

Games, even sim-leaning ones, use a spread of techniques to create the impression of a reality. Empty transit time is a potent one for representing scale, but a negative one in terms of game fun (for many players). Which brings into question whether it should be deployed so readily by the game, given other alternatives exist. Because make no mistake, it's not some physical inevitability derived from the game's structure. It's a design choice ultimately. And one that needs nuancing, many would assert

TL;DR I am diametrically opposed to this proposal. The current incident interval and radiant signal spawn mechanics are balanced and reasonable as is, FD have already catered too much for the instant gratification crowd with certain other changes.

Do you really feel that slowing down for the odd USS on the way to a second sun is gameplay which is heavily slanted towards 'instant gratification'. Because dear lord is it a long way from that

(On a more constructive note, if you want a proposal designed to allow both me and you to have our fun, IE one that adds gameplay for me but leaves your preference intact, click my sig image )

 

[ebbrell]

I like the idea, using engineering on thrusters or something. I don't thing quicker acceleration and max speed should change out of the box etc

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

As I commented on OA's video, remember it is looking 95% certain we are getting space legs in 2020, so on longer supercruise transits you will have the opportunity to, may even need to, get out of your pilots seat, and interact with a plethora of other things in your ship.

 

[Northpin]

NO - DONT!

Simply put, apart from the fact that the OP's suggestion would detract from the percievable scale of the galaxy, and instantly deprive any sort of interdiction opportunities, powerplay, piracy, PvP, Hostile BGS, Assassinations, "liberate XYZ cargo", and numerous other aspects of the game would be effectively locked out by such a modification to supercruise mechanics. Put it this way, you drop into system, hit the throttles turn around towards your target and 20secs doing a "safe disengage" at <1.00Mm from your destination, what chance does that give a federal agent/cop/pirate/bounty hunter/murder-hobo/CG Troll to get on your 6 and pull an interdiction on you? That would mean the only sources for combat would be electing to drop in on a Nav Beacon, RES, or a CZ.

If they do that the might as well rename the game Elite:Cotton-Wool.

what he said.

ps> I got a mission to kill thargoid scouts that sent me 350000ls within a system. And i did it. No biggie

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

As I commented on OA's video, remember it is looking 95% certain we are getting space legs in 2020, so on longer supercruise transits you will have the opportunity to, may even need to, get out of your pilots seat, and interact with a plethora of other things in your ship.

Given that the 'new era' is a DLC, it's going to be problematic if I need to get out of my pilot's seat in SC, since I won't be buying it

 

[VR Golgot]

what he said.

ps> I got a mission to kill thargoid scouts that sent me 350000ls within a system. And i did it. No biggie

Others would find that maddening and a terrible game experience. That is why these threads exist.

Because we've travelled somewhere to get Tharg missions, and been met with options like that. Because we've accepted missions with no info on their distance, only to have the destination revealed to be that far away. Because of exactly that stuff.

A solution that leaves you to enjoy your trek, and us to get their faster via gameplay, seems desirable...

 

[nanite2000]

what he said.

ps> I got a mission to kill thargoid scouts that sent me 350000ls within a system. And i did it. No biggie

What did you do during that half hour wait to get to 350000ls?

Did you ‘play Elite Dangerous’ by staring at the SuperCruise screen for half an hour? Or did you do something else while you waited for the time to pass?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

There's a well understood principle of paths of least energy for orbital transfer.
Those paths are non-linear.
Implement them in the game and have them provide a reasonable boost to SC acceleration when following them.

That provides a non-AFK method for those in a hurry while not affecting those who use that SC travel time to do other things.

I personally used that SC flight time to plan next jumps, check material levels, and other menu driven activities.
Having opportunities to do non-flight activities while travelling is useful.
Removing those opportunities by forcing SC to require a constant hand at the stick limits those activities and would be detrimental.

 

[VR Golgot]

As I commented on OA's video, remember it is looking 95% certain we are getting space legs in 2020, so on longer supercruise transits you will have the opportunity to, may even need to, get out of your pilots seat, and interact with a plethora of other things in your ship.

Honestly that doesn't sound like a solution. Any 'tweak the engine' gameplay could be done from the cockpit in theory. Any rote 'maintain the ship' stuff risks being mindless hammer bash. It would be something of a titanic task to make 'flight maintenance Legs' interesting.

I hope we all get 'stare out the window' Legs. And multicrew Legs. And also sorts of additive Legs. Holding out for 'flight attendant' Legs or 'pipe lagger' Legs does not appeal as a fix to SC transits however :/

 

[lenna]

Travel time is certainly one way to convey scale, but it's not the only way

Try actually reading and comprehending before responding...

Travel time is not intended to convey scale, it is a fundamental consequence of it.

In a multi-player context, the options are limited to reduce travel times and arguably any such reduction measures in a product such as ED should come with a cost tied to it. The fundamental problem is there is a competing mindset here...

Those looking for action oriented games, and those looking for the traditional Elite experience. The more FD try to appease the former then the more chance they have of alienating the latter.

 

[lenna]

There's a well understood principle of paths of least energy for orbital transfer.

These only really apply when Newtonian mechanics are exclusively used as the basis for travel - the principles of the Alcubierre Drive make the Newtonian principles you are referring to on the most part meaningless.

 

[Northpin]

What did you do during that half hour wait to get to 350000ls?

Did you ‘play Elite Dangerous’ by staring at the SuperCruise screen for half an hour? Or did you do something else while you waited for the time to pass?

God forbid we have to actually travel in a game about space travel

What do you do when going to Colonia?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

These only really apply when Newtonian mechanics are exclusively used as the basis for travel - the principles of the Alcubierre Drive make the Newtonian principles you are referring to on the most part meaningless.

When your drive is theoretical, you can do what you want for gameplay reasons.