Increased rebuy for engineered modules to tackle credit inflation

Yup apparently make all others suffer that DON'T do mining because people get rich with one gameplay method, yup, that makes all the sense. I don't mine, my credits aren't inflated, they need to boost the other methods instead or drastically nerf opals to curb this idiocy.
 
Credits are utterly inflated since the implementation of void opals and deep core mining in general. Lore wise, actually a cool thing as with advanced technologies we now are able to amass a giant fortune. The problem? They aren't worth anything anymore. New players can easily get a fully A graded Anaconda within a day and unlocking a hand full of basic engineers in a week will grant them the top power level there is to achieve in this game.

Only ship transfer costs display a somewhat valid credit sink but that's about it. Even the most expensive ships are no longer expensive, relatively seen. To tackle this I propose the following:

- Increased rebuy for engineered modules.

Your insurance grants you your ship as it was when you lost it, a fatal failure in the first place. And you do not pay any extra credits for engineered modules where valueable materials, way more valueable than credits, are spend to even achieve this level of power for each module. It is only fair to pay extra credits for your insurance company for them to replace your modules, engineered.

This works intuitive, like this: Assume a vanilla module costs 5% of its buying price to replace, each grade of modification increases this percentage by 20% and each secondary effect (for example fast charge for shield generators or phasing sequence for pulse lasers) by 5%. This means that a G5 engineered module with a secondary effect will cost 5% + 5*20% + 5% = 110% of its original credit value to replace. The credits are spent to pay their respective workers which gather materials for the company to be able to replace such high value modules.
Keep in mind that this is only accounted for each module so if you only run one G5 engineered module (for example a G5 increased range FSD) your total rebuy upon ship destruction won't increase significantly (maybe instead of 5% you pay 10% relatively speaking).

The aimed effect for this change is to make losing expensive ships more risky and cheap, small ships not so. For example a fully G5 engineered Viper MK III will never exceed a ~3M-ish credits rebuy mark as a fully A rated Viper MK III merely costs 3M credits to buy in the first place. This is intended because engineering a higher class (=expensive) module gives a much higher effect than engineering a smaller class module. Take a C3A and a C8A powerplant for example. Overcharging them both to G5 and adding the monstered effect (which have the very same material costs for both modules) will result in +5.5 MW for the C3A powerplant but +17MW for the C8A powerplant. That's 3 times as much despite having to pay the same amount of materials.
With this pwoer difference it is only fair to scale the rebuys the same way the prices are scaled (non-linear). The result is as already mentioned: high risk for piloting big, expensive ships engineered and low risk for piloting small, cheap ships engineered.

With much higher rebuys the potential loss of a ship displays a huge credit sink that is appropiate considering how fast credits are earned these days.

Additionally let's assume you lost your ship and can't afford to rebuy it completely. You will be able to unselect specific modules as you already can and replace them with stock modules using the already available feature of the rebuy menu. This will significantly reduce your rebuy costs per modules at the cost of losing an engineered module.

Lastly, another sideeffect is that purchasing modules in discounted equipment shops plays a more significant role as the scaling of the rebuy price soley depends on the original starting price. Assuming you bought one module in normal shops and one in LYR space (= -15% module costs) means that you can save 16.5% max. of the initial module price upon paying a rebuy if you bought it in LYR space compared to normal shops, making module buying location much more significant which adds a tiny bit of gameplay depth.

The values can obviously be adapted and changed but I aimed for around 100% of a module's original buying price for a fully G5 engineered module so this whole idea wouldn't work if it would be implemented using a 30% aiming mark as the difference is too low and credits will remain inflated, albeit not as much.

Thanks for your attention.
or frontier could get their head out of their ass and actualy put rank locked missions back since they want to gate the ammount of credits newbies get so badly and stop kicking their vets in the balls to cater to time gating newbies. and stop destabilizing the economy
 
The issue is not the rebuy... rebuy is onerous enough already for law abiding players. The issue is that there is still too much crime and not enough punishment.

Where players attack and destroy other players' ships, as well as engaging in illegal destruction of NPC's ships, the penalties need to be much more severe. Bounties on murderers need to be much higher than those for pirates who use non-lethal methods of stealing cargoes.

Additionally, those players guilty of multiple murders should have bounties so high that both players and NPCs alike will be swarming to claim the bounty, any system which is not Anarchy should eventually become off-limits, with all stations firing on the offender automatically - thus forcing them to the lawless fringes of society, and finally, any player killed who has multiple murders on their file should have their ship confiscated and destroyed for being the tool/proceeds of crime, with no rebuy, and they should be imprisoned at a penal establishment in a sidey with no weapons or frame shift drive and no access to any remaining funds or ships until they have earned their way out of prison, by carrying out penal station missions... doing meaningless, tedious tasks like scanning 20 incoming or outgoing ships, and then paying their way out of jail with their prison-earned funds.

... possibly all the while with their presence being advertised to the galaxy for anyone who has been wronged by them to come and try to kill them in their weaponless prison sidey.

This would make the punishment for antisocial behavior quite real... if the punishment missions paid out much more if conducted in Open, and any CMDR killed by the prisoner told where he is imprisoned so they can come and take a free, authorised shot at him, there would be incentive to do the prison grind where those wronged by the prisoner could come and show them the error of their ways.

The prison missions could be set up to require perhaps 8 hours of grind in Open, or 40 hours of grind in solo, so the criminal couldn't just wait out his imprisonment. The prisoner would also have to cover rebuys on the prison sidey at an increased percentage if killed by wronged CMDRs. Give them a taste of their own medicine...
 
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Yup apparently make all others suffer that DON'T do mining because people get rich with one gameplay method, yup, that makes all the sense. I don't mine, my credits aren't inflated, they need to boost the other methods instead or drastically nerf opals to curb this idiocy.
The issue is that too many players already have mined alot of void opals and bought alot of ships ... and by that I don't mean one Cutter, Vette and Anaconda ... I mean five of them, each.
If you now nerf void opals you can buff those who mined them even more and thjeir earnings will be even more unrealitsic and high compared to the other income sources.
 
The issue is not the rebuy... rebuy is onerous enough already for law abiding players. The issue is that there is still too much crime and not enough punishment.

Where players attack and destroy other players' ships, as well as engaging in illegal destruction of NPC's ships, the penalties need to be much more severe. Bounties on murderers need to be much higher than those for pirates who use non-lethal methods of stealing cargoes.

Additionally, those players guilty of multiple murders should have bounties so high that both players and NPCs alike will be swarming to claim the bounty, any system which is not Anarchy should eventually become off-limits, with all stations firing on the offender automatically - thus forcing them to the lawless fringes of society, and finally, any player killed who has multiple murders on their file should have their ship confiscated and destroyed for being the tool/proceeds of crime, with no rebuy, and they should be imprisoned at a penal establishment in a sidey with no weapons or frame shift drive and no access to any remaining funds or ships until they have earned their way out of prison, by carrying out penal station missions... doing meaningless, tedious tasks like scanning 20 incoming or outgoing ships, and then paying their way out of jail with their prison-earned funds.

... possibly all the while with their presence being advertised to the galaxy for anyone who has been wronged by them to come and try to kill them in their weaponless prison sidey.

This would make the punishment for antisocial behavior quite real... if the punishment missions paid out much more if conducted in Open, and any CMDR killed by the prisoner told where he is imprisoned so they can come and take a free, authorised shot at him, there would be incentive to do the prison grind where those wronged by the prisoner could come and show them the error of their ways.

The prison missions could be set up to require perhaps 8 hours of grind in Open, or 40 hours of grind in solo, so the criminal couldn't just wait out his imprisonment. The prisoner would also have to cover rebuys on the prison sidey at an increased percentage if killed by wronged CMDRs. Give them a taste of their own medicine...

I likle thea ideas. Draconian punishment was something me and some others requested during the CnP overhaul discussion. However, FDev stated that highly dislike draconian punishment and now we have some pseudo punishment that actually is the same as before as you can even it out with void opals/inflated credits. 1B bounty to pay? Pff, that's merely 5 hours of gameplay to recover from .. if you even get caught in the first place. Then you have to consider, that this 1B bounty takes actually more time to build up (in PvP) than farming 1B credits.
 
So for those of us who never went credit exploiting, (lets be honest, most fortunes were earned by such activities) we now have to pay basically the full price for our engineered ships, the total price, and some, of what we sunk into the vessel to upgrade it simply because some people have no restraint with how much money they NEED to have?


Its a hard no from me.
 
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Some criminal was recently killed for a whopping 760m bounty.
Unfortunately, the enforcers only got 2m(?) each, but the criminal had to pay 760m out for their rebuy.

With credits being how they are, I suggest allowing enforcers to claim bigger chunks of bounties, obviously no 760m, as that would be quickly exploited, but a decent amount.

Bit off topic there... Lol

I do support a high rebuy on engineering though, but thinking about it, grades 1-3 shouldn't increase too much, but 4-5 should increase dramatically.
 
The issue is that too many players already have mined alot of void opals and bought alot of ships ... and by that I don't mean one Cutter, Vette and Anaconda ... I mean five of them, each.
If you now nerf void opals you can buff those who mined them even more and thjeir earnings will be even more unrealitsic and high compared to the other income sources.

Hey whilst e're at it why not just remove funds from people who have these tens, or even hundreds of billions. That should do the trick. Reset everyones paychecks to the tiny amount of say 5 billion.

Or you know, why not go even more overboard and just straight up remove everyones engineered modules just for the lolz.

I'm sory but if this was iplemented BEFORE engineers were a thing, it would be fine, but many of us are not multi-billionaires and are more interested in playing the game than earning credits through mindless grinding. But these players should be punished regardless amirite?

Sorry but this concept is too orientated around the fact that YOU are in that percentage of players who has too much money. People should really be able to play the game and enjoy it, not have to do mindless hours of something they dont enjoy because the game "is'nt real enough" for a small group of people.


Just let the damn credits thing lie man.
 

dxm55

Banned
The solution as I said before would be to let the rebuy remain, but respawn the ships with the modules reverted to stock.

After all, engineering isn't about money, which many have boatloads of. It's about the effort taken to engineer those ships as well. All the grinding, all the travelling around.
This puts everyone on a level playing field. You lose the same amount of money whether your ships are engineered or not.

Besides, I've never seen an insurance company cover your extreme car modifications. You wreck it, they will replace it with a stock vehicle, or one at market value.

This way.... Gankers with over engineered ships also run the risk of losing all the good stuff that makes their ships overpowered, should they slip up and get destroyed.

Easy
 
The solution as I said before would be to let the rebuy remain, but respawn the ships with the modules reverted to stock.

After all, engineering isn't about money, which many have boatloads of. It's about the effort taken to engineer those ships as well. All the grinding, all the travelling around.
This puts everyone on a level playing field. You lose the same amount of money whether your ships are engineered or not.

Besides, I've never seen an insurance company cover your extreme car modifications. You wreck it, they will replace it with a stock vehicle, or one at market value.

This way.... Gankers with over engineered ships also run the risk of losing all the good stuff that makes their ships overpowered, should they slip up and get destroyed.

Easy

And by turn, all the legit PvPers lose thier ships also because PvE players dont like being shot at.
 

dxm55

Banned
And by turn, all the legit PvPers lose thier ships also because PvE players dont like being shot at.

Wouldn't it make their PVP all the more interesting then?
To gamble with real consequences.

You know... like taking your car to the Nurburgring and then losing it into a wall?
 
This way.... Gankers with over engineered ships also run the risk of losing all the good stuff that makes their ships overpowered, should they slip up and get destroyed.
For a lot of players pvp is just sport, mean to get better in game, scrapping engineering after rebuy is even harder punishing pvp for lack of any matchmaking mechanism.
If you want to punish gankers just introduce some C&P first.
 

dxm55

Banned
For a lot of players pvp is just sport, mean to get better in game, scrapping engineering after rebuy is even harder punishing pvp for lack of any matchmaking mechanism.
If you want to punish gankers just introduce some C&P first.

Actually it has nothing to do with PVP players. A module reset after death punishes everybody.

It was meant in response to the OP thread. And because there is no point in increasing rebuy for engineered modules simply because credits are easy, according to some.
It was also meant to introduce some real world sensibilities, because no insurer would insure your modified parts.
 
I dont remember this kind of suggestion when it was just about the monthly goldrush and PvP groups exploiting the crap out of it.

Because BGS exploit that made the bank for the vets, and then FDev patching it, that was the intended organic experience people crave of course.
 
I dont remember this kind of suggestion when it was just about the monthly goldrush and PvP groups exploiting the crap out of it.

Because BGS exploit that made the bank for the vets, and then FDev patching it, that was the intended organic experience people crave of course.
Well at this time we expected this to be fixed as it was indeed an exploit. Now, however, you are making more cr/h than with any other exploit there was and this is not going to be "fixed" as it is intended. I understand that more credits aren't necessarily a bad thing but also increase costs to make credits worth the same and just changing the situations how and how much credits you earn/lose.
 
Wouldn't it make their PVP all the more interesting then?
To gamble with real consequences.

You know... like taking your car to the Nurburgring and then losing it into a wall?
High risk is what most PvP players have been asking for for ages. Right now we have a HD shield PA/rail meta. You frequently see full booster ships with thousands of MJ, making you invicible against any kind of firepower that can be achieved in this game. You can easily escape a heavy gank of 12 ships. Thus, the case that you have to rebuy your ship is very rare and even then, you only pay 5% of its value in credits, which is nothing for today's standards. For example, a fully A graded and G5 engineered Vette or Cutter may cost about 50m credits to rebuy. That are ~33 void opals which can be mined by cracking 2 asteorids which can be found within an hour approximately ... or in 5 minutes if you are lucky. One hour to cover a row of failures coming all together in a meta where barely anything is a subject to being blasted into the void is laughable. You could very well remove rebuy, it only punishes the players who are not having access to such high income sources yet (not that it is difficult to get there). But as it stands now, rebuy (and bounties in that case) don't really add anything to the gameplay loop. The transfer costs are usually higher than your rebuys long term and with my suggestion I aim to make ship loss something dangerous again that you don't take as easily as today where yo uself destruct to safe 5k ly of travel time.
 
The solution as I said before would be to let the rebuy remain, but respawn the ships with the modules reverted to stock.

After all, engineering isn't about money, which many have boatloads of. It's about the effort taken to engineer those ships as well. All the grinding, all the travelling around.
This puts everyone on a level playing field. You lose the same amount of money whether your ships are engineered or not.

Besides, I've never seen an insurance company cover your extreme car modifications. You wreck it, they will replace it with a stock vehicle, or one at market value.

This way.... Gankers with over engineered ships also run the risk of losing all the good stuff that makes their ships overpowered, should they slip up and get destroyed.

Easy
Well insurance companies should never cover war machines anyway as thats a loser financially.
 
None of the good players fly a prismatic FDL.

That build is for scrubs who need that kind of defence to stay flying. Moreover, you fly a FAS do you not? A ship that can be flattened by any opponent with a good set of railguns.
You would get very, very bored of paying 100 mil, and the rest every time you inevitaly get plant sniped.

Players who spend more time fighting than grinding (By a VERY large factor), and only sit around 100mil/150mil at any given time would be able to afford one rebuy under this system. Then be forced to go and do an activity we despise or have no interest in, just to get enough cash for another rebuy.

Seriously, this post is written from the perspective of the 1% who have all the money, anyone who PvP's and is'nt god tier rich is going to get actively punished for loosing a ship whilst it will make sweet F all difference to those who have these hunereds of billions.

I dont remember this kind of suggestion when it was just about the monthly goldrush and PvP groups exploiting the crap out of it.

Because BGS exploit that made the bank for the vets, and then FDev patching it, that was the intended organic experience people crave of course.

Because they wanted financial security. Now they have it they realise there is no incentive to really try to get better anymore. These players shot themselves in the foot when it comes to in game risk and now we're getting ideas like this travesty floating around that actively burns anyone who didnt/doesnt abuse the credit exploits.

You want risk? Ask Fdev to cut down your credits to a reasonable level then go fight folks. Or buy 30 A rated Cutters, you have the potential already in gam to make your experience riskier. Suggesting things that bankrupt anyone but the "L33t" players with hundreds of billions is just stupid. Morever, people should not have to sacrifice any more of thier time to play how they choose to. What with the already vertical grind wall to PvP having that kind of inflation on said ship would just add insult to injury. Fine for folk who just play ED and have no life, for the rest of us who PvP, thats a forced kick out of the gameplay we enjoy.
 
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