Increasing open play incentives

[Calenir Varrik]

As a person who enjoys all kinds of gameplay (PvP, PvE and coop PvE) I have to add that this is, at it's core, a multiplayer game (please note I didn't say PvP only)

Human player interaction and affecting other players and the universe, is a central part of this game's premise, otherwise Frontier would have simply made the game offline only.
They did not. Going so far as to drop the offline single player component entirely because it would not be in keeping with this theme.


Personally I don't random player kill in any MMO I play, preferring to hunt down killers in addition to protecting traders, new weaker players and those generally not versed in general PvP.


As far as Elite goes those who don't want to interact have solo, those who do have open (the game as it's meant to be) however the incentives (besides being social and interacting) are somewhat lacking and for many players the risks outweigh the rewards.


Currently:
Bounty hunters (like myself) have the incentive to hunt down player killers who may have much larger bounties on their heads.
Pirates have the incentive of stealing loot from players carrying expensive cargo.
Sadly however traders really have no incentive (and only risk) playing in open.

I created this thread as a chance for the community to discuss the issue and come up with ideas that would encourage more players to play and stay playing in open play.

My first suggestions would be that

1) rare commodities' initial sell value be increased substantially but only be available in open play (or otherwise keeping them as is in solo but greatly increasing their initial sell value in open play)

2) increased faction reputation gains in open play.

3) adding a few more "rare" financially rewarding bulletin board delivery missions (only available in open play)

Those are the simplest ones I came up with initially but hopefully with your help we can expand this list further.

 

[Dabba]

I can tell you right off the bat that will still get exploited.

1) Im going to fly to the station that sells them in solo. Save and exit to main, log into open, buy the commodity, save and exit to main, log in to solo, fly to the station I want to sell them at, save and exit to main, log in to open, sell them. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Will do the exact same thing with 3. 2 isn't a bad idea, but rep builds up fairly quickly already with trading even offline, so not that worried.

The only thing thats going to get me to log into open and stay there prior to wings being implemented, and probably even after, is a pvp toggle. Until they get that figured out Open is probably going to be a fairly lonely place. Ill stick to Solo or the Mobius PVE private group.

 

[noodle]

I really don't get this fear of open play. I traded my way up to a Type 6 without being attacked once by another player.

 

[Macgyver]

Tried the MMO side, got ganked a bunch of times or held up for my cargo, got tired of it.
Went to solo play and have never had any issues again, I can just get on with it.
No reason to try multi player again basically due to the costs of loss/death and the ridiculous insurance mechanics this game seems to think was a good idea.

Sounds like Most of the Newbies are solo playing and now the grievesrs are grieving there is no players to shoot... Go figure...

The only way to increase player base on the multi player side is to offer some form of safety for new players, at the moment there is none.
But this is Elite Dangerous.. It's suppose to be dangerous you say...
Well ok, enjoy the limited player base then and lack of sales.

 

[kurush]

Hell, I might even go open then. But I will still have my "kill Elite process" hotkey ready and I'll likely just firewall all P2P traffic just to be safe, lol. And yes, I do enjoy these threads. Griefers must grieve.

 

[pwnieb0y]

Hell, I might even go open then. But I will still have my "kill Elite process" hotkey ready and I'll likely just firewall all P2P traffic just to be safe, lol. And yes, I do enjoy these threads. Griefers must grieve.

Please stay solo if you plan on keeping that key bound.

I switched to open in Gamma, and haven't had a single problem since. The only time I've ever been attacked by another player was way back in open beta and that was in a warzone, so it was totally legit.

 

[obliterator]

I can tell you right off the bat that will still get exploited.

1) Im going to fly to the station that sells them in solo. Save and exit to main, log into open, buy the commodity, save and exit to main, log in to solo, fly to the station I want to sell them at, save and exit to main, log in to open, sell them. Rinse, lather, repeat.

That sounds like the most boring and ineffective exploit ever. The constant loading time will reduce your profits to almost nothing.

But even then, all they could do is to keep track of the mode you've been playing with the item, and set the value to the lowest price. That way, if you'd buy in open and reconnect in solo, the price would then adjust itself to solo mode, and stay that way even if you tried to sell them in open. Problem solved.

The only thing thats going to get me to log into open and stay there prior to wings being implemented, and probably even after, is a pvp toggle.

That would be a MAJOR immersion breaker. Mechanics that cannot be explained by the in-game universe have no place in this game. Perhaps a bigger bounty for attacking a player? Or a way for you and your friends to actually team up and defend against pirates?

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

Hell, I might even go open then. But I will still have my "kill Elite process" hotkey ready and I'll likely just firewall all P2P traffic just to be safe, lol. And yes, I do enjoy these threads. Griefers must grieve.

I think it's funny you have to kill your game. I think thats more of a grief than actually blowing up your ship. I have so much power over you, I made you do something IRL.

 

[Andromalius]

And what if you left people to decide for themselves where they want to play ? All that you are looking for is a way to force them to adapt your playstyle. Also, lots of people play coop with friends, not "solo". Why do you want to force yourself into their games exactly ?

I have so much power over you, I made you do something IRL.

Especially people like this, who are on the internet to purge the frustration of being no one in their life. ^^

 

[OldSalt]

With respect Frontier didn't drop Offline because it was not inkeeping with a theme, rather they got in a technical/logistical hole that meant they couldn't deliver it without compromising the other game modes. As for the rest of what you say I think it is well intended and constructive comment but so long as players who favour combat oriented PvP play treat open mode as a dogfight server the more frustrated they will become for two reasons, the game provides numerous ways to prevent it (both fair play and not) and the availability of other modes which can be switched between at leisure (of which I approve btw). The premise of the game was always that player on player encounters would be infrequent but the apparent current attitude could mean they are all but non-existant.

PvP enthusiasts should eat a slice of their own cake as I see it and instead of shouting down others with 'play solo' set up their own private groups where they can be as aggressive as they like among like minded players. Treat Open as a digital space going life simulator where hard earned gains are precious, as is your life, and it will work as intended- ramming new players in the docking slot while flying an Asp because its 'fun' wont.

Edit- Typo's- too much Sherry (its Christmas)

 

[The Tominator]

The answer isn't to increase incentive for open play.

The answer should have been all along that there should be ONLY open play, no solo. Remove the solo option, like every other MMO, and then the focus would be on game balance, risk vs. reward, and you'll have a real sandbox environment where there will be pirate-only guilders, and anti-pirate guilds, etc. (Look a Vendetta-Online and how its social sandbox evolved.)

The game could implement high-sec vs. low-sec systems (sorry for the Eve reference, but it's a really good mechanic), trade routes through riskier space will yield greater profit, etc.

 

[Calenir Varrik]

And what if you left people to decide for themselves where they want to play ? All that you are looking for is a way to force them to adapt your playstyle. Also, lots of people play coop with friends, not "solo". Why do you want to force yourself into their games exactly ?


Especially people like this, who are on the internet to purge the frustration of being no one in their life. ^^

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, merely offering suggestions to increase the rewards of playing together with others.
I'm all for players who prefer solo or group play to continue playing the game as is.

Open play has increased risk, why them should it not have increased reward (without taking anything away from the other game style)

 

[Connor Caple]

They tried some of these ideas in Ultima Online to make Felucca more attractive about 10 years ago. The general outcome was that a few of us got things much cheaper than everyone else because we knew how to use the PvP area well (having 'grown up' there) and everyone else continued to ignore it because, basically, people don't want to play in 'open pvp' as they want a single player or co-op game where they can chat to people and have fun.

That IS what the majority always want. It has been proven time and time again with studies, surveys and plain old 'what do they spend their money on'.

That's why WoW had 9 Million subscribers and EvE had under 100K.

You are flogging the greasy spot where the dead horse used to be.

 

[nosscar]

I joined the PvE group because i thought in open i would be getting hit all the time, i am primarely a trader.
Truth is i now play open all the time, the only time i have seen more than one human player in open is when there is some sort of event where people purposely meet up, such as following someone on streams (eg: Kate russell).
I have played since beta and been threatened by a non npc once ( a noob, in a sidey lol).

Open play is relatively safe, and in fact should be more risky than it is to add excitement, multi player mechanics needed to encourage players to group up, (i know, wings coming soon).
At the moment i don't see a need for single player mode, or even group play to be honest.

Trust me folks, get into Open and check it out, it is as safe as single player, the npc pilots are the only problem in what ever the mode, and in all modes they are rubbish pilots, and so easy to kill.

 

[Dabba]

The answer isn't to increase incentive for open play.

The answer should have been all along that there should be ONLY open play, no solo. Remove the solo option, like every other MMO, and then the focus would be on game balance, risk vs. reward, and you'll have a real sandbox environment where there will be pirate-only guilders, and anti-pirate guilds, etc. (Look a Vendetta-Online and how its social sandbox evolved.)

The game could implement high-sec vs. low-sec systems (sorry for the Eve reference, but it's a really good mechanic), trade routes through riskier space will yield greater profit, etc.

That game exists already, you referenced it, its called Eve. Id never have bought this game to begin with if there was no Solo option. Elite was never an online game before.

 

[Bambi]

Hell, I might even go open then. But I will still have my "kill Elite process" hotkey ready and I'll likely just firewall all P2P traffic just to be safe, lol. And yes, I do enjoy these threads. Griefers must grieve.

I don't understand, if you're just going to quit as soon as you see another player, why don't you play solo from the beginning? It is not very nice to your attacker who has his opportunity to interact with someone else ruined by a quitter.

A player attacking another player isn't griefing. Considering there is no teamplay whatsoever right now griefing is impossible.

 

[obliterator]

That game exists already, you referenced it, its called Eve.

Even if it was open only, elite would be NOTHING like eve.

Elite was never an online game before.

Well it is now.

 

[eeps]

Currently:
Bounty hunters (like myself) have the incentive to hunt down player killers who may have much larger bounties on their heads.
Pirates have the incentive of stealing loot from players carrying expensive cargo.
Sadly however traders really have no incentive (and only risk) playing in open.
.

Im not quite sure why you want 'open play' to become more popular .. the motivation seems unclear. Yes it is a 'multiplayer' game, but only loosely, and not in the usual sense that most other games that use that descriptor.

But you are quite correct in the summation quoted above. So lets do some quick math :

PvP/griefers/pkers/pirates/whatevers are desperately running out of targets, and in a universe some 400b stars big it must be hard to find another player, let alone one that is disadvantaged by ship/weapons and therefore worthy of intimidation.

Pve/carebears/players/whatevers totally dont give a darn about the presence of other players. Their game will hardly change if the entire pvp player group were vaporised by Vogons to make way for a hyperspatial express route.

The hard part is going to be convincing pve players without just saying "Please come back to open play so we can shoot you", which will always be a sub-text to this sort of request. There might well be plenty of goodies on offer to encourage people back to 'open' but those goodies may lose their shine pretty quick after they have been robbed from you or destroyed with your ship in a blaze of "Yarr..."s .

Personally I absolutely dont see the point of 'open play' beyond just a pvp battleground, absolutely everything you need is available in solo/group mode.

By introducing new items or rare gimmicks just to provide more cannon fodder for over zealous pvp players, theres a possibility you will actually create more grief to the pve playerbase. Since those rare items are going to be the prize, you would just encourage pvp players to setup an ambush and lie in wait for pve players to investigate. A recipe for disaster, and you would be unlikely to coax the pve playerbase out from the shadows again.

@noodle, I'm not so sure its a 'fear' as you described. Well done on your type 6, but many have not been so lucky. Most players are generally having a hard time making money. Most alpha/beta backers are wealthy because they understood the methods to make cash long ago, and know how to fly, and know what mistakes not too make. But for most newer players they are only just coming to terms with flying, let alone amassing a fortune.

So if you take one of these players, who has spent all week just trying to scrape together enough cash to buy a hauler, and spent 3-4 hours a night trying to do so. Finally the purchase is made, and with a beaming grin the unsuspecting player ventures out into space with a load of cargo he can barely afford, to find some pvp guy in a well hung ship, snickering into his hotas as he deploys his hardpoints. And in a few short seconds the struggling player has had his entire week of gaming/enjoyment/quiet time removed, as if that week never existed, all those real-life hours utterly wasted. So thats like coming home on a friday after a long week of work, and someone just rolls into your lounge room and explains that you wont be getting paid this week, and all your effort is pointless, tell me about how motivated you would be to return to work on monday, knowing your efforts may once again be nullified. I wouldnt call that fear, I would call that 'I'm not going to waste my time'.

Im not sure how getting more players into 'open' will ever be achieved, and even if it needs to be achieved. The focus should be on co-operative play (imho), to encourage people to team up, protect their friends, and enjoy the game together. Getting more people back into 'open' will just drive conflict (imho) and therefore drive people away from the game.

 

[Calenir Varrik]

With respect Frontier didn't drop Offline because it was not inkeeping with a theme, rather they got in a technical/logistical hole that meant they couldn't deliver it without compromising the other game modes. As for the rest of what you say I think it is well intended and constructive comment but so long as players who favour combat oriented PvP play treat open mode as a dogfight server the more frustrated they will become for two reasons, the game provides numerous ways to prevent it (both fair play and not) and the availability of other modes which can be switched between at leisure (of which I approve btw). The premise of the game was always that player on player encounters would be infrequent but the apparent current attitude could mean they are all but non-existant.

PvP enthusiasts should eat a slice of their own cake as I see it and instead of shouting down others with 'play solo' set up their own private groups where they can be as aggressive as they like among like minded players. Treat Open as a digital space going life simulator where hard earned gains are precious, as is your life, and it will work as intended- ramming new players in the docking slot while flying an Asp because its 'fun' wont.

Edit- Typo's- too much Sherry (its Christmas)

I agree, the technical issues were the final reason but nevertheless they chose to go with their vision of a "living" universe (which means player interaction) and the online modes.

It's frustrating when griefers ruin someone's experience, they are the scum of the gaming world and I'm all IP bans for that kind of repeated behaviour.

That being said I feel for many the experience of knowing there are random dangers and rewards lying out in the deep black makes for a much richer experience.
often times it's not the action but the freedom of choice that's most rewarding.
Knowing that every encounter "could" be deadly (hence my hatred of a PvP toggle that hopefully never gets implemented)

That at being said I'm not suggesting taking away anything from the solo and group play just simply suggestion some extra incentives to encourage players to come and interact in open play.

PS. Enjoy the sherry and happy holidays.

 

[Connor Caple]

Well it is now.

Which just proves that it's not all progress. Stupidest decision ever, as evidenced by the backers who demanded refunds when they found out...