I'm sure I killed you a few times in Eve too.
Increasing open play incentives
- Thread starter Calenir Varrik
- Start date
I'm sure I killed you a few times in Eve too.
I've recently switched from playing mostly solo to open play. Didn't have a reason to shoot anyone, exiting hyperspace and docking permissions were faster and I'm not up for a chat when I play the game - I use the forums for that.
So basically, I had no reason to go open and many reasons to stay solo. With the introduction of events including conflict, that has changed now. Fighting NPCs is a rather dull experience after a while when even Elite rated ones in bigger ships are essentially pushovers, so I went to open for a bit of suspense. My only gripe is the almost complete lack of repercussions on death - the game lacks lacks in building up suspense if all you have to do is pay a few measly pennies to just respawn and no other downsides. I wish death in the game was something to be feared. Still hoping for ironman.
So basically, I had no reason to go open and many reasons to stay solo. With the introduction of events including conflict, that has changed now. Fighting NPCs is a rather dull experience after a while when even Elite rated ones in bigger ships are essentially pushovers, so I went to open for a bit of suspense. My only gripe is the almost complete lack of repercussions on death - the game lacks lacks in building up suspense if all you have to do is pay a few measly pennies to just respawn and no other downsides. I wish death in the game was something to be feared. Still hoping for ironman.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
derogative terms like that are banned from this forum. just because many do not like antisocial people forcing a play style on them that they do not want, using another fully supported play style does not make them a care bear.
Wow, I have been here for years and this is only my 3rd ever -ve rep!.
PS I play in ALL before you decide to accuse me of anything
This is the sad truth.
To each their own, people have the right to choose if they want to play open or solo.
Personally, I play open and enjoyed some good interaction with other players, I got interdicted by a guy in a Viper who told me we could do this 2 ways, I could give him half my cargo or he would take all of it. Playing for time, I asked why he only wanted me to give him half when he clearly had a loaded gun pointing at my head. His reply was "I can only carry 8, the rest would just go to waste so you may as well keep it" I laughed, dumped out 8 tons of Coffee (abandoned, not jettisoned) and made friends with the guy on the spot. Since then he's interdicted me again because "Dude, I got to make a living right?" and I've Interdicted and killed him twice because "Evil must be punished" and "If I beat you enough, maybe you'll learn the error of your ways"
If I was playing solo, I'd miss out on things like this and (in my opinion) Elite Dangerous would be emptier and more soulless for it.
Personally, I play open and enjoyed some good interaction with other players, I got interdicted by a guy in a Viper who told me we could do this 2 ways, I could give him half my cargo or he would take all of it. Playing for time, I asked why he only wanted me to give him half when he clearly had a loaded gun pointing at my head. His reply was "I can only carry 8, the rest would just go to waste so you may as well keep it" I laughed, dumped out 8 tons of Coffee (abandoned, not jettisoned) and made friends with the guy on the spot. Since then he's interdicted me again because "Dude, I got to make a living right?" and I've Interdicted and killed him twice because "Evil must be punished" and "If I beat you enough, maybe you'll learn the error of your ways"
If I was playing solo, I'd miss out on things like this and (in my opinion) Elite Dangerous would be emptier and more soulless for it.
I'm really quite confused and dismayed by the realisation that the overwhelming mentality in this game is that PvP is inherently a bad thing and involves nothing but griefing.
The risk of getting shot at and losing something, plus the chance to shoot back is what I was hoping was going to make this game actually decent.
The risk of getting shot at and losing something, plus the chance to shoot back is what I was hoping was going to make this game actually decent.
Um well for a few reasons .. (dont get me wrong, I too would be very interested)
This issue of identifying player numbers has come up in a few threads, offline mode, pvp vs pve, etc. People have discussed the 'numbers' regarding other more general issues as well, and it has also been mentioned when regarding some polls on various topics. I recall the Mods being a little sensitive about people making assumptions, and have quickly closed down debate as people started to zero in on possible numbers.
Nonetheless it seems elusive, and an untidy air of concern and silence if you ask a Mod or FDev directly to disclose these numbers. I will proffer my opinion as to why below, but it does come with a caveat; its just an opinion and very possibly inaccurate. So lets cut the cake ..
Firstly, I think the numbers might reflect a trend away from 'open play'. This means there are more people happy to play in groups, and happy to play in solo mode. If this is the case, then the entire drive for 'we can only play this game online, there is no offline mode' becomes a little defunct. If the people are truly playing without the apparent need for the server, then it re-opens the wound of the removal of offline mode. Sure the servers are there for market data blah blah blah, but the constant need for connection is diminished, and small markets updates could occur through login. So basically FD might have putt all their eggs in the online basket, and the numbers might reflect that the playerbase mostly enjoys a semi-offline model. (read: opinion, not fact)
Secondly, no doubt FD wants to be as inclusive as possible, it is a market after all, and wants everyones money. If the numbers show that the pvp audience is basically sod all, then they are massively outweighed by the sheer volume of players happy to conduct mostly pve play (even with the occasional consensual pvp stint). If this is the case, the pvp players would be hounded off the forums and marginalised permanently. To an extent, their validity in the whole debate is because their number is invisible. If the clearly large population of pve'ers worked out theres just a couple of thousand, loud and forthright pvp players, then the debate would almost stop on a dime. "most of us want this, very few of you want that, so sod off, democracy and all that". If this occurred, lots of potential money would be lost from sales to pvp customers. (read: hypothetical, opinion, rhetoric, not fact)
So even if I'm slightly right, it would definitely pay FD to keep the numbers quiet. Just like any other business, telemetry can tell a lot about how you operate to future customers, so its best to keep some of that under wraps.
However, apologies for thread hi-jack. It is a good thread, with a noble cause. Its not just another pvp vs pve thread, although the well trodden path seems to lead the cows the same direction sometimes. This thread is about bringing people back to open play to enrich it for all of us.
You might have missed the part where a few pvp players also conducted some rampant griefing, thus blurring the line. You might still be able to find one or two so-called pvp players waiting outside starter bases in heavily armed ships shooting new people in sidewinders who havent even had a fly yet. Way to go guys :|
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Same, if anything, the NPC's are more of a present threat then other players.
Back in '84, I could only dream of playing in such a massively connected environment. I'm surprised how many people don't want to be part of this, but each to his own. Some real jeopardy adds a lot to the experience; that nagging sense of paranoia is far more real than anything else you'll get from this simulation. No Occulus Rift will ever come close to creating that emmersive emotion.
John Bartholomew Roberts.
John Bartholomew Roberts.
Getting my ship shot out from under me while transporting a valuable cargo is inherently a bad thing. And yes, this is the definition of griefing in my opinion.
All you folks who want to pvp, great, you have your own mode, it's called open. I don't want to deal with it, so I play my way, solo.
What does it matter to you which way I prefer to play? Oh right, there's too few players in open-play because losing a bunch of money, time and effort to someone waiting to blow you out of the sky, IS A BAD THING.
In the history of MMO's, PVE games that had dedicated PVP servers almost all the time had issues with populations on those servers.
I get your point, im nodding nodding and then no. They dont have the best 'mode' to play in, there is no difference between 'open play' and some of the larger pve groups. I think Mobius is comes in around 1800 players (in one group), and with only 36 players in any given instance, thats more than enough chance for interaction.
Most of the pvp'ers hang around Sol I think, so they can actually find someone to kill. All these people wandering around saying they have never been shot at and dont know what all the fuss is about might feel differently if they took a loaded type-9 to daedalus...
I have tried PvP in the past, and absolutely hated every minute of it. I'm in my fifties with slow reactions, and fighting other players almost always resulted in my player's death. In Elite that means a substantial loss, a boring, tedious and dreary experience.
Remember Elite is not the only game out there. If people don't enjoy non-consensual PvP, they will leave, and the game will suffer. I absolutely accept that PvP should be an option, but I don't agree that it should be compulsory.
People differ. We vote differently, enjoy different music or books, play different sports and have different hobbies. Frontier have recognised this with the separate groups, which is vital if they are going to maximise sales. What is exhilarating to one person may be utterly boring and frustrating to another.
If there are enough people who enjoy PvP, they will be able to make a go of the open group, maybe setting up areas for them to fight in. If there aren't enough people to do that, there isn't a reason to make PvP compulsory. WoW does allow for a PvP/PvE split, and it's been substantially more successful than the PvP only Eve.
Have a great Xmas everyone.
Remember Elite is not the only game out there. If people don't enjoy non-consensual PvP, they will leave, and the game will suffer. I absolutely accept that PvP should be an option, but I don't agree that it should be compulsory.
People differ. We vote differently, enjoy different music or books, play different sports and have different hobbies. Frontier have recognised this with the separate groups, which is vital if they are going to maximise sales. What is exhilarating to one person may be utterly boring and frustrating to another.
If there are enough people who enjoy PvP, they will be able to make a go of the open group, maybe setting up areas for them to fight in. If there aren't enough people to do that, there isn't a reason to make PvP compulsory. WoW does allow for a PvP/PvE split, and it's been substantially more successful than the PvP only Eve.
Have a great Xmas everyone.
Regarding the PvP switch...
I'm largely in favour of this. The lore be dammned. I'd like to fly around and see more players around and be able to coop and chat with them. But i have no intention of being the target of someone just out for laughs. And that is the problem. Even if 99% of pirates are decent and honest players, who only will demand cargo from those with, who won't attack sidewinder, etc... then there are still a small % that are just out for kicks, and that spoils the immersion a lot more for me than any PvP toggle. The way people get into PvP as though their lives would not be on the line because "lore" says you eject and get back to safety is really silly in my eyes.
While i don't want to play Ironman either, i do at least understand those guys and appreciate their willingness to risk all.
Unfortunately this forum has shown quite clearly there are some players who are just out to "win" with comments about attacking startwinders, attacking anything smaller than themselves, and no consideration for the cargo/booty.
I see one other option that might work. Two forms of open play. No-PvP and dedicated PvP.
This then gives Mobius a break accepting thousands of join requests. There will be a single clear No-PvP group (especially for newbies), and a clearer message to those who don't want PvP to avoid the PvP group. Those who seek PvP will also know exactly where to go.
The upshot for PvPers in this is:
1) Shouldn't get so many people combat logging.
2) High level of skill of opponents, since you would assume those seeking PvP have honed or will hone their skills. Giving PvPers what they claim they want, a challenge.
You do know mentioning that game around here can lead to a drubbing?
And no, its not the solution. You may have noticed a little storm that happened around here when they cancelled offline mode? Yeah, imagine that multiplied by a faction of 10 or a 100, and the refund requests that would go flooding in. It would be suicidal for FD to consider that.
I'm largely in favour of this. The lore be dammned. I'd like to fly around and see more players around and be able to coop and chat with them. But i have no intention of being the target of someone just out for laughs. And that is the problem. Even if 99% of pirates are decent and honest players, who only will demand cargo from those with, who won't attack sidewinder, etc... then there are still a small % that are just out for kicks, and that spoils the immersion a lot more for me than any PvP toggle. The way people get into PvP as though their lives would not be on the line because "lore" says you eject and get back to safety is really silly in my eyes.
While i don't want to play Ironman either, i do at least understand those guys and appreciate their willingness to risk all.
Unfortunately this forum has shown quite clearly there are some players who are just out to "win" with comments about attacking startwinders, attacking anything smaller than themselves, and no consideration for the cargo/booty.
I see one other option that might work. Two forms of open play. No-PvP and dedicated PvP.
This then gives Mobius a break accepting thousands of join requests. There will be a single clear No-PvP group (especially for newbies), and a clearer message to those who don't want PvP to avoid the PvP group. Those who seek PvP will also know exactly where to go.
The upshot for PvPers in this is:
1) Shouldn't get so many people combat logging.
2) High level of skill of opponents, since you would assume those seeking PvP have honed or will hone their skills. Giving PvPers what they claim they want, a challenge.
You do know mentioning that game around here can lead to a drubbing?
And no, its not the solution. You may have noticed a little storm that happened around here when they cancelled offline mode? Yeah, imagine that multiplied by a faction of 10 or a 100, and the refund requests that would go flooding in. It would be suicidal for FD to consider that.
It is not an overwhelming mentality.
There are a number of people with an irrational fear of human interaction.
Fear will make people express their opinions very loudly and strongly.
There is absolutely no way to entice these people to play open and they would absolutely quit the game if they were forced to, so they should be left alone to play in their solo or group modes.
The issue is them transmitting their fear to others with their loud, strong and baseless opinions.
The way this game is designed griefing is utterly impossible.