(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

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PowerPlay AMA related links regarding Modes and Powerplay;

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=106524&page=27&p=1663438#post1663438
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140032&page=22&p=2145448&viewfull=1#post2145448
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140032&page=25&p=2145528&viewfull=1#post2145528

All 3 quotes from people higher up than Sandro.

Face it folks, he just likes trolling PvPers and teasing them with alleged nerfs to the mode system.
Not his first time either - you lot never learn.

I'm not following you with those quotes, you sure you got the right ones? First one actually has Michael saying 'None are planned at the moment' in direct reference to different perks in the different modes...the second quote..huh? And the 3rd quote doesn't actually apply, sadly David isn't always up to date on what's going on in the game, I think most of us are aware of that too.
 
LOL - If there's an advantage to PP in Solo, then play in Solo if you want.

This is just another ploy/plea from the PvP crowd to lure more victims into their gunsights...

and lol, Sandro took the bait

Good luck getting this fish off the hook.

And that simply shows the problem, as so many of us keep pointing out, Solo/Group have an advantage over Open for PP, everyone who does PP is aware of this, FD knows it, this isn't a secret or something only a few select people know, there's entire threads on it here and on reddit.

2 solutions, Sandro offered one, Open PP gets modification that gives the PP Power more from the actions of the players in Open. Not my preferred method of dealing with this issue, but it will do the job none the less. The PLAYERS aren't getting anything in Open that the players in Solo/Group don't get, it's balanced.

My preferred solution, remove PP from any mode but Open, but that's not going to happen, just look at how people react to the thought of making PP balanced as it stands, there's no way they'll go for removing it from anything but Open, they want their cake, they want to it eat, and they don't want to get fat OR get diabetes from it either.
 
I'm not following you with those quotes, you sure you got the right ones? First one actually has Michael saying 'None are planned at the moment' in direct reference to different perks in the different modes...the second quote..huh? And the 3rd quote doesn't actually apply, sadly David isn't always up to date on what's going on in the game, I think most of us are aware of that too.

Sandro talked about giving a bomus to one mode - quote 1 is his boss saying otherwise.

No idea why the 2nd was in there... had the links grouped up for a while.... so just ignore it, will need to remove it or move it from my other post where it is stored.

3rd is saying there is balance, solo players balance solo players...... and as Frontier are the only people who have the numbers, you'll have to take their word for it.
This whole "David isn't up to date...." is a load of tosh, you have no proof there is an imbalance caused by the mode system - no players have any information, stating that Frontier don't know what is going on makes you look daft.
 
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And that simply shows the problem, as so many of us keep pointing out, Solo/Group have an advantage over Open for PP, everyone who does PP is aware of this, FD knows it, this isn't a secret or something only a few select people know, there's entire threads on it here and on reddit.

2 solutions, Sandro offered one, Open PP gets modification that gives the PP Power more from the actions of the players in Open. Not my preferred method of dealing with this issue, but it will do the job none the less. The PLAYERS aren't getting anything in Open that the players in Solo/Group don't get, it's balanced.

My preferred solution, remove PP from any mode but Open, but that's not going to happen, just look at how people react to the thought of making PP balanced as it stands, there's no way they'll go for removing it from anything but Open, they want their cake, they want to it eat, and they don't want to get fat OR get diabetes from it either.


There is an imbalance between every mode and Open, whenever there is a popular 'thing' occurring. What makes PP so special? If it's so special then why aren't the other issues between open and other modes going to be addressed. It's the same mechanic whether the BGS, CG's, or PP are being addressed....player interactions reduce the effectiveness of Open. Fix it all or leave it alone.
 
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Which part of "keep playing in solo" is confusing? This isn't going away. How does slightly increasing the benefit to the power in open make it non-viable in solo?

This sounds a lot like using PVP as a reason to keep the artificial distortion in place? I'm not sure if that's the intention of your post; but it reads a lot like it. In solo, nothing changes. In open? The power benefits more.

The commander in solo gets the same number of vouchers as open; so your entire argument supposes that there is a net loss to a commander, where no such loss exists. Which, to me, means you didn't read and instead jumped to the conclusion that this is to force people into PVP.

Sure, to push a power along, means there is less advantage to distorting power outcomes in solo. Which is the point. To redress the balance.

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Honestly though; this feels like frontier still don't really have a direction for multiplayer in Elite.

I mean it was obvious as day that adding a purely commander driven mechanic into a mode where other commanders don't exist was going to have pretty predictable results. The entire thing simply encourages fifth column activities because there's literally no other counter.

And now the mechanic is so well know, and so abusable in solo, the developer decides it's time to maybe fix that and every single commander who finds solo a GREAT way to game the heck out of PP is up in arms.

This whole silliness keeps repeating. It's hilarious. Bad. But funny as hell.

Sorry, but what part of "Fix the game" did you not understand?
All I'm saying is incentives are bad.
Fix it first, add incentives later if you must but I think you'll find they won't be well received.
This game was never designed to be solely multiplayer focused.
 
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Sandro talked about giving a bomus to one mode - quote 1 is his boss saying otherwise.

No idea why the 2nd was i nthere... has the links grouped up for a while.... so just ignore it.

3rd is saying there is balance, solo players balance solo players...... and as Frontier are the only people who have the numbers, you'll have to take their word for it.
This whole "David isn't up to date...." is a load of tosh, you have no proof there is an imbalance caused by the mode system - no players have any information, stating that Frontier don't know what is going on makes you look daft.

And Michael's quote 'None are planned at the moment' shows they may come LATER, otherwise, it would have been, 'No, never will happen', and FD could have stuck to their guns with that statement. Michael didn't say that though, he left an out in case they decide to do something exactly like what Sandro has proposed.

And the imbalance is not imagined, it's not made up, it's not a load of tosh, it's an established fact that's been exploited for a while now by all the groups doing PP in earnest. FD sees it, Sandro tossed out the idea because of the imbalance, it's real, it exists, and the response ALL the PvE only players make shows it, 'just play in Solo/Group yourself'...yeah, because there's no imbalance there.... David does NOT always know what's going on in the game, he's shown that more than a few times now, he's not an actual god, you realize that right? He does make mistakes and isn't all knowing and all wise.
 
The problem was always the issue that the AI was not up to standard to prevent players dropping to PvE to manipulate the system. There are no harsh penalties either.
If you want to fix the problem then it needs to be done with regards to the game, not by pandering to those who only seek to have their cake and eat it. I will tell you this that when you encourage people into an unenjoyable experience they surely won't return.
And that's what incentives do, either if well intentioned or not because humans. You always find a way to annoy other humans and the annoyed humans spit the dummy and tend to leave.

The solution to this lies in the game but not at the expense of it's player base.

What you are doing is trying to bring a competitive environment to a game which has no competitive history. This is annoying to players who have been with this franchise since 1984. What they want is to play in a sandbox where they have the freedom to make their own choices. A majority are cool with there being repercussion for their actions if they are naughty. It's part of the game's history and most really want that but it's not quite there yet but it is one of the things that really needs fixed. When ppl played this game in 1984, they played a "game", not the player.
What a great many, as in Solo / Private Group and even Open players don't want is to be dictated to as in how they should play the game.

PP is not an old thing, it is new to the franchise but it should not be that thing that is only for PvP players. You have to remember that you are only that one player and the influence you have upon the game is minimal at best but I guess this is not enough for some players.
You need to understand that there are solo players in every Power as well so it balances itself out.
A minority of human idiots is not a good enough reason for the game to undergo drastic changes just to suit a certain ideal either...by gaming the system just to make a point.

I don't think you should be calling people "idiots" just because they disagree with you.

The problem is that we don't know if this playerbase is predominantly PvE or PvP nor their attitude toward either activities. We know this forum is predominantly PvE, that is an observation I think most of us can agree on.

The history of this game goes way back where internet wasn't even utilized much at all, and now it has all these potentials and they should be explored.

PP itself as a competitive PvP mechanic still uses mostly PvE activities to contribute to the overall PvP image. If PvE players refuse to play PP because the needed equality is brought about with this change, then the one being inconsiderate isn't the "idiotic minority" as you put it, but a narcissistic portion of the community that somehow believes PvE gameplay should somehow be superior or more important than PvP gameplay from a conceptual standpoint.

When in a competitive mechanic where people are rationally driven to private and solo, there is no equality to speak of, this change is bringing equality to us.

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All I'm saying is incentives are bad.


Then where were you all this time PP has been the way it is? It's been incentivizing private and solo mode for a long time, where were you?
 
But the limitation of membership is what separates the modes. Hence in making the decision to play in a certain mode, the player already "did" something, and it's a choice to be distinguished under a competitive setting.

That's where we start to disagree. In any game you compete against the people you choose to play with or against. Elite is no different. Now, we've both seen folks claiming on these forums "my kung-fu is superior! You are all scrubs!" but we both know they are simply fools. We're playing the same game whether we are in solo, an arbitrary group or in open. We may not be directly competing against each other at all. We may only be able to oppose each other indirectly or we may find a way to face each other, lasers blazing, across a random piece of space. It's still the same game. It should STAY the same game.
 
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Please go flame elsewhere?

You can't stop religious people converting others to the same religion. The auto-responses to sandro's comment make that abundantly clear. PVP is a nice excuse; the bulk of the resistance stems from people knowing full well that solo is the best way to game PP.
 
There is an imbalance between every mode and Open, whenever there is a popular 'thing' occurring. What makes PP so special? If it's so special then why aren't the other issues between open and other modes going to be addressed. It's the same mechanic whether the BGS, CG's, or PP are being addressed....player interactions reduce the effectiveness of Open. Fix it all or leave it alone.

Because PP is the only mechanic where ONLY player actions count, as you should be aware Roybe, so that's the one where the imbalance must be addressed by FD directly.
 
flame?

Just because they made the same observation I made a year ago - most of the complaints come from perceived problems in open, remove open and you remove the problems.
It is that simple. the game would still be an "MMO" without open mode. But then you'd have to join a group or make one. Not hard as there is a "Groups" sub forum

I don't know what else to tell you but what you're doing right now is flaming the thread.

"Remove Open" seriously?

Edit:

All we need right now is someone that walks in here and say "Nope it's all solo's and group's fault that open is the way it is now, remove them" and we have ourselves a locked thread. That must be obvious to you.
 
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That's where we start to disagree. In any game you compete against the people you choose to play with or against. Elite is no different. Now, we've both seen folks claiming on these forums "my kung-fu is superior! You are all scrubs!" but we both know they are simply fools. We're playing the same game whether we are in solo, an arbitrary group or in open. We may not be directly competing against each other at all. We may only be able to oppose each other indirectly or we may find a way to face each other, lasers blazing, across a random piece of space. It's still the same game. It should STAY the same game.

Only in open I can be stopped when undermining. In solo, I cannot be stopped. This is an automatic imbalance. It's not the same. It's never been the same. Arguing the game should be the same in all modes is great; but because of the way those mechanics work, they never will be. "fair" and "same" is an illusion.
 
Hello Commander Asp Explorer!

Clearly we would need mechanisms to prevent activities performed in Solo Play from being counted in Open Play.

Again, this is all hypothetical at the moment, but I think we would be able to achieve this.

It's not going to work anyway. Log into Open, block UDP port. All the benefits of Open with the joy of Solo.
 
Someone please explain how solo and private have such an advantage over open that open needs a bonus?

You undermine a faction for 3 hours in solo. I cannot stop you. The reverse is also true.

I freight pieces of paper from place A to place B, you cannot stop me; the reverse is also true.

I can try, as hard as I might to out undermine, or out freight; but I cannot at any time actually influence. This is the imbalance. There is no way to prevent or influence. Solo might make it easier to earn vouchers, but the biggest reasons is that actions cannot be affected.

It's a group methodology being almost entirely run in solo.
 
"Incentivized" how? What advantage do the other modes have besides the absence of PvP?

Because in the competitive scope, having no hindrance in one's activity in PP is infinitely better than having hindrance. It's even better when you control the environment where people only cooperate with you. There is no reason to play Open other than run into potential player interference. Which is an irrational choice.
 
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