(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[Deathwatch]

Powerplay is a Player Versus Player Mechanic that uses the Environment to work, Powers are made up of players supporting a Environmental Character's beliefs and aims or just for the profit from it.

The Environmental part of this is the NPC's and the goods that each power produces, the Player Versus Player part is when players are going against the other groups to make their group end up on top, this can be done by players of the same power working together to do the Environmental part, Or they can hard counter the other power by eliminating the primary instigators of the other Power aka the other Players by suppressing them it means the other power is restricted.

Powerplay is in itself a competitive mechanic, that pits groups of players against each other, Players whom use Open have a uncontrolled environment where their environment can/could be invaded by other players of other aims to suppress their actions and to stop their power.

By giving Open Players a higher rating for their goods which seems like Sandro's suggestion, it would be looking at the Balance between Risk vs Reward, as any ship in Open should be looking at being built to at least escape and survive a Player Encounter as Players are one of the few major threats you can face while playing the game, the other being Stations and Station Turrets but those don't follow you around in Space.

Open Players wouldn't as per say benefit monetarily from these changes but rather see their risk rewarded.
Other Modes of play would still be able to work at their normal efficiency but find Open Play maybe being more efficient or at least equal too those modes.

Player versus Player isn't necessarily going toe to toe with each other, it involves anything where a player is aiming to affect another players interest, heck you could say Trading is Player Versus Player as they manipulate the Environmental Market, in addition to the action of some Traders whom manipulate/fake/change trade data out of their own greed.

If we quote the idea of Equality, you lot are viewing it the way many of you are that having the same things make you equal thats not how real life works.
Think of it this way, In Solo, you leave your house their isn't anyone around but these drones that don't do anything major.
In PG's, You are in an controlled environment, you leave your house their are still drones but your mate is their, now he may instigate a friendly fistycuffs with you and you may remove him from the group if you wish or you might work together.
In Open, You are in an Uncontrolled Environment, you could leave your house, their are still drones about, but some random guy could come and punch you to the floor and most things wouldn't care less.

 

[Lowievisser]

would be a good idea!

 

[Lestenio]

All of those things would benefit the player, this proposal will not, it only benefits the Power.

My point remains the same. Buffing one mode over another is a slippery slope regardless of the reason it was made and who it affects. Buffing PP in open could lead to the introduction to other buffs in the future and I am opposed to any mode being treated differently.

/2cents

 

[Deathwatch]

My point remains the same. Buffing one mode over another is a slippery slope regardless of the reason it was made and who it affects. Buffing PP in open could lead to the introduction to other buffs in the future and I am opposed to any mode being treated differently.

/2cents

But if you refuse to fix something because it "might" lead to introduction of other things then, your just sticking your head in the sand, If you refuse to try to fix something then you damn the game with your own fears.

 

[Ozram]

So with delivery oriented power play, what's to stop someone only logging into open at the stations and making their trips in solo?

 

[Deathwatch]

So with delivery oriented power play, what's to stop someone only logging into open at the stations and making their trips in solo?

What I would do is mark cargo, so if its picked up in Open it states say Open and if you change the mode it would remove that marker from the Cargo, this would mean the bonus isn't applied.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

But if you refuse to fix something because it "might" lead to introduction of other things then, your just sticking your head in the sand, If you refuse to try to fix something then you damn the game with your own fears.

Fixing something with something that doesn't work and results in more problems isn't a good way to fix anything. If there is a problem with PP in Open Mode, then that should be fixed in a way that doesn't devaluate the actions of other players, that isn't easily to circumvent and that doesn't result in giving player groups a huge advantage.

The proposed fix of giving Open Mode players PP actions more weight than the actions of players in other modes is flawed.

- Setting the router turns Open Mode in a very lonely experience. I bet that a lot of the competitive player groups will start tinkering with their routers to prevent other CMDRs to show up in their Open Mode instances. They will all deny doing it, they will all do it. It's human nature, they see an advantage and use it.

- It will result in Open Players wanting special treatment in all other aspects of the game. It doesn't matter if Sandro said it would only be applied to PP, the moment the players realize that this is possible they will want it for everything.
This will be at the cost of the players who don't want to play in Open Mode who will feel treated unfairly and as second class customers. Alienating those players from the game, the community and the publisher.
I bet instead of playing in Open Mode a lot of Solo Mode players will simply stop playing PP. I don't know if that is what FD and the community wants. The next step would be that FD has to adjust the values needed for success in PP to take into account that a lot of players stopped playing PP.

- If Open Mode becomes a better choice to play PP it will turn PP into a part of the game that is only effectively played in a large player group. Making it something only a subset of the Open Player base can effectively participate. This has the potential to completely ruin PP.

- It will be used as an evidence that Open Mode is the only true mode. Further deepening the gap between players.


Short: PP might need a fix, but the proposed fix does more harm than fixing anything.

 

[Jukelo]

Thanks for that, I'm just not that sure the risks in open are that much higher after all you do need to get into the same instance as your intended target also I've been told it's childs play to escape if you know what you're doing so you lose only a few seconds. Oh and then there's the fact that even within the bubble there's a lot of ground to cover and if I play it safe my would be assasin is salking the systemI just left while I'm now heading to undermine/ fortify and other system that way I can have people chasing their own tails and laugh myself silly.

These are all valid points regarding open in general. Powerplay is slightly different in that it tends to be played by organized player groups. So running away can be a lot more difficult (see wings), and the playerbase is a lot less diluted throughout the 20k inhabited system than happens with the rest of the game. Each turn, there is only about a dozen points of interest for each power, where you are much more likely to meet other, pontentially hostile players.
Now it would still be possible to pick any of the wholly uninteresting and unthreatened systems and grind away there with little risk of meeting somebody as if you were in solo, but the risk still exists, although to a lesser degree. I guess it could be possible to have whatever bonus Sandro wants to implement, change depending on factors like player activity in the system. Sandro mentioned a bonus as high as +100% power influence, and although I'd say that's a pretty good figure for systems with a high player population where you're very likely to meet opposition, that's would probably be ludicrous if applied to every system.

 

[Deathwatch]

Fixing something with something that doesn't work and results in more problems isn't a good way to fix anything. If there is a problem with PP in Open Mode, then that should be fixed in a way that doesn't devaluate the actions of other players, that isn't easily to circumvent and that doesn't result in giving player groups a huge advantage.

The proposed fix of giving Open Mode players PP actions more weight than the actions of players in other modes is flawed.

- Setting the router turns Open Mode in a very lonely experience. I bet that a lot of the competitive player groups will start tinkering with their routers to prevent other CMDRs to show up in their Open Mode instances. They will all deny doing it, they will all do it. It's human nature, they see an advantage and use it.

- It will result in Open Players wanting special treatment in all other aspects of the game. It doesn't matter if Sandro said it would only be applied to PP, the moment the players realize that this is possible they will want it for everything.
This will be at the cost of the players who don't want to play in Open Mode who will feel treated unfairly and as second class customers. Alienating those players from the game, the community and the publisher.
I bet instead of playing in Open Mode a lot of Solo Mode players will simply stop playing PP. I don't know if that is what FD and the community wants. The next step would be that FD has to adjust the values needed for success in PP to take into account that a lot of players stopped playing PP.

- If Open Mode becomes a better choice to play PP it will turn PP into a part of the game that is only effectively played in a large player group. Making it something only a subset of the Open Player base can effectively participate. This has the potential to completely ruin PP.

- It will be used as an evidence that Open Mode is the only true mode. Further deepening the gap between players.


Short: PP might need a fix, but the proposed fix does more harm than fixing anything.

Let us remember that the reason we have player minor factions is because FD realised they stuffed up, by calling back Player groups with the offer of Minor Factions in the name of their group.

How would you fix the issues then if you can come up with something im happy to hear it but currently you aren't giving any fixes.

 

[Jockey79]

But if you refuse to fix something because it "might" lead to introduction of other things then, your just sticking your head in the sand, If you refuse to try to fix something then you damn the game with your own fears.

Yes, Power Play needs something, but giving one mode a buff over others is not the "fix".

For a start, all someone has to do is toggle uPnP off and that will cut the number of people the matchmaker will instance you with by a massive amount.
If someone is feeling more adventurous, then putting the game server on your firewall white list and blocking all other peer to peer connections creates a pseudo solo mode while playing and gaining any buff in open (this takes like 10 minutes to throw together) and if you really want to enjoy your work you can put friends IP address on there as well so you can still play with friends.

Buffing one mode over the others does not "fix" anything, it will just create tutorials on how to play with your routers or firewalls and Power Play will still be a dull grind that is broken.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
How would you fix the issues then if you can come up with something im happy to hear it but currently you aren't giving any fixes.

It's not my job to come up with fixes. That's the job of the game designers at FD.

I'm just pointing out that the proposed fix doesn't fix the problem and introduces a lot of problems.

 

[Derath]

It's not my job to come up with fixes. That's the job of the game designers at FD.

I'm just pointing out that the proposed fix doesn't fix the problem and introduces a lot of problems.

This pretty much summarises why it doesn't pass muster for me, it doesn't fix the problem and it probably makes things worse. I agree they should be looking at it though, but the way they suggested isn't the way to go about it.

 

[Deathwatch]

This pretty much summarises why it doesn't pass muster for me, it doesn't fix the problem and it probably makes things worse. I agree they should be looking at it though, but the way they suggested isn't the way to go about it.

The only way to test it would be to trial it, say in a simulated environment or something ?

 

[VR Murgle]

Elephant, meet room. Room say hi to Elephant. Apperantly so many people care so little about PvP (or even dislike it outright) they will actively avoid it whenever it suits them, does it sound like a good idea to risk upsetting these people?

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

I'm a Solo player. I've been signed up with ALD from day one since her stated aims were most in-line with my commander's attitude; the bonuses were just... well, bonuses! I've never been rank 5. When I don't have the time or the inclination to optimise my contribution to her cause, I at least try to do something that won't damage the ongoing efforts by reading up on the latest tactics thread. I don't fifth column. I just play in Solo, and I PP because I enjoy having Fedscum or Kumo crew try to take me down (and I can't deny that as an assassin and bounty hunter, it's nice to get the BH bonus).

Sandro's suggested fix is effectively punishing me. I realise it's a very minor punishment (ie, reduced efficiency), but it's still a punishment; I'm collateral damage because people who presumably would rather be playing in Open instead duck into 'my' mode for the sake of efficiency and apparently for subterfuge. In this particular case, PP, I can tolerate it. I don't like it; I don't like the implied "you're now a second class space citizen"; I don't like the precedent being set for the imposition of more drawbacks on my chosen mode of play in the future, because this PP adjustment is setting foot on a slippery slope (it's already been demonstrated a dozen times in this thread). Frankly, I don't like anything about it, but I'll still tolerate it if I must because I see some merit in the idea that PP is PvP by means of PvE mechanics and I want the game to be fun for everyone who plays it, even you griefing, Open-playing psychoscum, so that it can live out a long and hallowed lifetime as a game people play for years with lots of updates and improvements and awesomeness, which requires money, which requires customers, which requires people having fun.

However, I think there are better ways of handling this apparent imbalance.

Thanks Sandro -- good to hear something is being considered towards the 5c issue. To me it seems the counter should come from the powers themselves. I mean, why are they doing nothing to stop or punish members who actively undermine them from within? This is the major flaw that needs addressing, I think. They're quite happy to hunt you down for a few days if you defect, but not if you're sabotaging them while being a member. Having a punishment for that behaviour at the power level doesn't require incentivising one mode over another.

This one, for a start. Make it an in-game drawback and it just becomes gameplay, and gameplay is good for everyone. Interfering with the balance of modes is a whole 'nother thing and is inevitably going to leave one segment or another of the community feeling wronged to a greater or lesser degree. If such a thing is truly unavoidable then go ahead and do it, but like a surgeon making an incision, you'd better be damn sure you're cutting precisely where you need to cut, and bear in mind that surgery is generally the last option after all others have been investigated.

 

[Deathwatch]

Elephant, meet room. Room say hi to Elephant. Apperantly so many people care so little about PvP (or even dislike it outright) they will actively avoid it whenever it suits them, does it sound like a good idea to risk upsetting these people?

Yes because these are the people whom actively persecuted and had huge numbers of the PvP crowd banned from the forums from Alpha, heck their was some shady actions done by certain of our blue's on these forums back then.

By pandering to one crowd constantly your bound to fall, the player groups create content by making the world living.

 

[VR Murgle]

Yes because these are the people whom actively persecuted and had huge numbers of the PvP crowd banned from the forums from Alpha, heck their was some shady actions done by certain of our blue's on these forums back then. By pandering to one crowd constantly your bound to fall, the player groups create content by making the world living.

You're right better pander to the PvP crow because that would be a huge success...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ok it didn't take long to take that down. Still question remains is a solution that creates new problems really a solution because lets face it you can keep information such as was just removed from the offical forms but you can't moderate the entire interwebs...

 

[Deathwatch]

You're right better pander to the PvP crow because that would be a huge success...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ok it didn't take long to take that down. Still question remains is a solution that creates new problems really a solution because lets face it you can keep information such as was just removed from the offical forms but you can't moderate the entire interwebs...

What it is doing is balancing the modes as per the developers opinion on the matter not pandering to any crowd, we didn't ask for it, Sandro just suggested it.

 

[Jockey79]

Ok it didn't take long to take that down.

Ahh, censorship of public information.
Would love to know what it is supposed to achieve removing the information form here that Google brought up on the first page of a search "Should I use UPnP".

If Frontier brought out a buff for open mode, lots more people will be searching Google and finding that information.

 

[Deathwatch]

Ahh, censorship of public information.
Would love to know what it is supposed to achieve removing the information form here that Google brought up on the first page of a search "Should I use UPnP".

If Frontier brought out a buff for open mode, lots more people will be searching Google and finding that information.

Then Logically if they were caught they could be classed as exploiting the game, anyway can we stay on topic this topic is here to debate the suggestion of Sandro's.

It would hopefully bring challenge to Powerplay especially when freedom fighters comes out.