Info on Thermal Conduit effect.

and again nope

there is a second fact which makes pas much stronger then frags

todays combat speed is very high.
frags need more then a second to deploy the full damage of multi salvo. we are flying > 500 ms / second. this means the pellets are spreaded on a area of more then 500 meters.
PAs deploy the full alpha damage on one specific moment with a combined hit field of about 50 meters. this makes them a lot stronger then frags.
there are very few frag pilots who are able to anticipate where they have to fire so the opponent flies in the cloud of pallets but they are very rare and even this can be countered as it can be seen in several of my videos. if the opponent flies orbit with range control frags are on the edge to useless.
Are you actually saying that gimballed frags are harder to use than PAs?
 
I will say it directly - SPEAR has interest TC to be nerfed as only a couple of you use PAs and all of your "enemies" fly with them. But fine let's be civil and speak numbers - according to Coriolis this is the sustained dps when WEP are not empty against a 5 booster prismatic FDL with 4 pips in shields:
  • meta fdl with 3 PAs with TC -> 40.4 (thermal 7, kinetic 5, 28 absolute) and two rails 17.2 (thermal 13, kinetic 5) => combined thermal 20, kinetic 10, 28 absolute, TOTAL 58 damage per second to shields;
  • gimballed multies FDL (all overcharged, huge and 2 medium incendiery, one med emissive, one corrosive) => combined thermal 17, kinetic 8, TOTAL 24.4 damage per second to shields;
  • mamba with long range fixed beam and gimballed frags (all overcharged, large incendiery, smalls corrosive and drag) => combined thermal 37, kinetic 7, TOTAL 43.7 damage per second to shields;

So meta FDL needed to sustain heat levels, full faOff proficiency, boost timing, pre-turns, pips management and no drifting has currently 32.7% better dps on paper. In a real fight the difference of damage output might be even less. The skill needed to fly such a mamba is just joust, click 3 times to shoot the frags, turn point and click to shoot the beam, repeat. Looking at those numbers I actually thing that TC is underpowered OR frags are overpowered XD Without it the sustained dps between the two is pretty much even. The difference with the gimballed multi-cannons looks good.
Beautiful numbers ty!
The problem with plasmas and everyone knows it. Is also that you wont be able to shoot them alle the time so you WONT be able to shoot them every 3 secounds.
So if you would nerf plasmas you also need to nerf all weapons that can shoot further then 4 km... else you would create an imbalance as well.
 
Beautiful numbers ty!
The problem with plasmas and everyone knows it. Is also that you wont be able to shoot them alle the time so you WONT be able to shoot them every 3 secounds.
So if you would nerf plasmas you also need to nerf all weapons that can shoot further then 4 km... else you would create an imbalance as well.
Yeah this is where theorycrafting doesn't hold up to real world testing. The amount of people who think their coriolis build is better until they get out there and use it.
 
I had interested into TC fix even before I joined SPEAR mate. State of this experimental forced me to stop using pa cause non-tc aren't that viable against tc pa. I do enjoy them as well as fixed MCs, sometimes use both in fights or in places where TC is restricted like latest RoA hulltank tournament. Not sure if your boasting or mocking other guys regarding skill is really necessary here - pa was (and is) decent weapon even without tc which requires experience to use it effectively, no one here denies it.
Regarding numbers you also have to keep in mind:
- gimballed multis can be countered by chaff/dispersal/tlb, it has jitter which reduce it's effectiveness and requires still (not much but still) staying somehow on target
- same goes for frags, might not that effective (I also not an appreciator of this wep) where 1-2 volleys also can be shot into the void
But non of that can deal such decent alpha damage by single shot with such penetration+resistance ignoring.
With old TC game was different: you could face in organic something else except 3pa2rail FDL (or 4+1 and 5or6 booster) and receive joy/challenge. The last ofc is much more complex topic where current TC is only a part of the picture
Absolutely wrong!!! There are strong experimentals like TLB, the 4 secound Chaff etc I do agree that it should be fixed, but nit nerfed... if you would introduce a scale that the damage increases with heat% there musst be and exchange for that for example getting 1.25% damage for every 1% heat resulting 75% buff at 160% heat...
If you constandly stay at more then 160% your ship will be inoperatable in like 5- 10 minutes. That should be enough time for spear to be able to stop ganker and pvp community is happy bc tc is now more complex and uses more skill.
That would be a perfect outcome wouldnt it?
 
You will need to hold heat between 148 and 160 to gain something from it. And in every other case you lose... that must be a good enough nerf.
A few random examples, just off the top of my head:

  • netcode is a mess, people are rubberbanding around and/or sometimes you get shadowrammed randomly -> that's a problem
  • ramming damage is utterly inconsistent and unpredictable -> that's not good
  • zero skill weapons like seekers can easily overwhelm yor defensive modules and are capable of deleting your external modules including weapons nearly instantly, and you cannot even engineer mrp's to give them the level of protection internal modules have -> that's an utterly bad design
  • your canopy can get oneshotted by a reverski railspammer from 6 kms -> oh well, but why cannot we at least keep the goddamn reticle after canopy breach?
  • why, for heaven's sake, after so many years, is the game still unable to draw the damned target orientation indicator triangle around the opponent consistently, every single time you need to retarget someone?
  • healing weapons? what kind of a dumb idea is it? I'd really like to know what was the one who came up with it smoking -> should be removed and its place in the code should be sowed with salt
  • premium ammo? you get increased damage because you were doing some braindead grind of shooting rocks? -> stupid idea, remove it altogether
  • and the list could go on and on and on

- someone is able to preturn me consistently and therefore he's capable of landing insane amount of TC PA damage on me?
More power to them, it's an utter non-issue, at least compared to all the above it most certainly is.
 
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I think the consensus so far is still

1) TC is broken due to it applying before 100% heat. we all agree that it should apply with the buff from 100% and up to 160% for the max buff
2) heat damage from using these weapons was meant as a balance to them and that that heat damage is also currently not working as a proper balance.


I can understand why fdev won't take much of the forum discussions seriously. Too many people are trying to fight their little culture wars in them. A quick glance at the messages there too a lot of mud slinging this is just unhelpful.
 
A few random examples, just off the top of my head:

  • netcode is a mess, people are rubberbanding around and/or sometimes you get shadowrammed randomly -> that's a problem
  • ramming damage is utterly inconsistent and unpredictable -> that's not good
  • zero skill weapons like seekers can easily overwhelm yor defensive modules and are capable of deleting your external modules including weapons nearly instantly, and you cannot even engineer mrp's to give them the level of protection internal modules have -> that's an utterly bad design
  • your canopy can get oneshotted by a reverski railspammer from 6 kms -> oh well, but why cannot we at least keep the goddamn reticle after canopy breach?
  • why, for heaven's sake, after so many years, is the game still unable to draw the damned target orientation indicator triangle around the opponent consistently, every single time you need to retarget someone?
  • healing weapons? what kind of a dumb idea is it? I'd really like to know what was the one who came up with it smoking -> should be removed and its place in the code should be sowed with salt
  • premium ammo? you get increased damage because you were doing some braindead grind of shooting rocks? -> stupid idea, remove it altogether
  • and the list could go on and on and on

- someone is able to preturn me consistently and therefore he's capable of landing insane amount of TC PA damage on me?
More power to them, it's an utter non-issue, at least compared to all the above it most certainly is.
Sadly this.. would be good if they looked at all areas but what is the likelihood eh?
 
If this devolves into bickering we will lose being listeneed to, let's put our differences aside and act like adults so that the people who are thinking about changing the game listen to us. We risk making things worse for ourselves if we don't. Please just think about that for a min.
Mitochondria are membrane-bound cell organelles (mitochondrion, singular) that generate most of the chemical energy needed to power the cell's biochemical reactions. Chemical energy produced by the mitochondria is stored in a small molecule called adenosine triphosphate (ATP).
 
I don't want to have to .. but if you choose to derail this with rubbish I'll ask that your comments are removed.. please don't be that guy. You're better than that.
 
Absolutely wrong!!! There are strong experimentals like TLB, the 4 secound Chaff etc I do agree that it should be fixed, but nit nerfed... if you would introduce a scale that the damage increases with heat% there musst be and exchange for that for example getting 1.25% damage for every 1% heat resulting 75% buff at 160% heat...
If you constandly stay at more then 160% your ship will be inoperatable in like 5- 10 minutes. That should be enough time for spear to be able to stop ganker and pvp community is happy bc tc is now more complex and uses more skill.
That would be a perfect outcome wouldnt it?
absolutely? .__. No one said tlb/dispersal are weak mods just in most cases people stack TC to achieve more damage.
75% bonus damage! And for 5-10 minutes :D I assume such changes will burry even more ships and weps in organic
 
I love the FDL but I understand why people are upset, I wish more ships were as good as the FDL at PVP combat. If other common combat ships like the Chieftan, FAS, or Krait were able to perform as well as the FDL it would be nice. I don't want to see the FDL nerfed, but would be very happy with a buff to bring other ships to its level. I may be verging on heresy here, but what if some ships were better than the FDL in some ways??
FDL is only any good if the person flying it knows what they are doing with it and has probably months if not years of learning involved. Flown FA on with bad weapons its as much a heap of junk as anything else. I know because I still fly it like a heap of junk. As to TC on plasmas. I would say it requires skill to land plasma's never mind making sure the temp is over 100. Its pointless if you haven't the skill to land them. From what I see most haven't and all they want to do is moan at the people that have taken the time to master them. You only have to look at all the low skill Cutter builds & missile builds to realise no one wants to invest time. Pack hounds and the like should never have been a thing either for example.
 
Although I find synthing and healies horrible for PvP, synthing and healies can be rewarding in AX combat. Healies in AX CZs can be fun and very helpful because of the duration of the AX CZs and number of Interceptors involved.

Synthing is also invaluable for soloing the Hydra and Medusa because of their massive health pools.
 
of course not they wanna keep their most powerful ganking weapon. i saw countless of times with my very eyes what a gankerwing of them can do against any shield tank non pvp pilot with this broken weapon as it is right now.

but agreed we are very close related to an agreement.
still consider tho that a 4 PA Fdl without any TC at all still can do 384 mj damage when built smartly. isnt this enough?
3 of them still deploy about 1000 mj damage and this is without any rams. so even 12k mj cutters can be taken down fastly. means 257 raw damage on a shield with 4 pips to sys.
To be fair an all gimbal beam and multi cannon build will destroy most none pvp ships even with the get good video they still don't react correctly. I'd say SPEAR probably have more of a problem with it because it counters there reverski Cutters to a degree. The guy getting ganked usually doesn't even what is killing him usually.
 
Most people worth their salt don't fly 6 boosters.
Doesn't a 5 booster with dual banks have more shields than a 6 booster? On the other hand if your in Deciat with a 6 booster you can stack a lot of hull modules. (6 booster prismo 3,664 Mj & 2,612 Abs hull) (5 booster with banks 4,111 Mj & 1,690 Abs Hull)
 
It's much of a muchness but the difference is you can't put pips into hull. I tend to run a chaff anyway with one heatsink but it's kinda more fun with banks etc. That's purely my opinion though and others can do what they like.
 
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