Info on Thermal Conduit effect.

[Legendary Keks]

absolutely? .__. No one said tlb/dispersal are weak mods just in most cases people stack TC to achieve more damage.
75% bonus damage! And for 5-10 minutes I assume such changes will burry even more ships and weps in organic

Well you wanted that the heat scales with the damage, and to nerf it you want to reduce its damage buff. If you take the average bonus damage between 100% and 160% of my example its 37,5% (+75% dmg at 160% heat). Pilotes that use tc carefully will benefit and tc is nerfed as well. It is really as close as our both sides will get.

 

[Legendary Keks]

To be fair an all gimbal beam and multi cannon build will destroy most none pvp ships even with the get good video they still don't react correctly. I'd say SPEAR probably have more of a problem with it because it counters there reverski Cutters to a degree. The guy getting ganked usually doesn't even what is killing him usually.

So your saying a reverski meta will be nice?

 

[Pigletslastand]

So your saying a reverski meta will be nice?

I think he was making a point to the opposite lol

 

[Legendary Keks]

@Andi13460 sry for the msg it was a misunderstanding

 

[Legendary Keks]

Sry i thought it was a msg from one of the spear promoting a long range meta again sry for the mistake

 

[CMDR Alswulf]

Well you wanted that the heat scales with the damage, and to nerf it if you take the average bonus damage between 100% and 160% its 37,5%. It is really as close as our both sides will get.

if the heat damage will be improved/"repaired" (mostly related to the heat damage above 160%) with your TC adjustments - it will work at least for me for sure.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I know because I still fly it like a heap of junk. As to TC on plasmas. I would say it requires skill to land plasma's never mind making sure the temp is over 100

I second that.
I have too many real life interruptions (and years) to beat anyone competent in a meta FDL. I have beaten frag mambas with it but I have always lost against the same pilots in FDLs with SRB rails, which are also great for PVE with the plasma slug effect, as are indeed 4 medium TC beams.

 

[galahad2069]

Although I find synthing and healies horrible for PvP, synthing and healies can be rewarding in AX combat. Healies in AX CZs can be fun and very helpful because of the duration of the AX CZs and number of Interceptors involved.

Synthing is also invaluable for soloing the Hydra and Medusa because of their massive health pools.

Basic synthesis is okay(ish), premium (=damage increasing) synthesis is not. Maybe it's not easy (and it shouldn't even be), but it's possible to solo a Hydra without premium ammo.
Healies should totally be removed (AX combat is irrelevant here, luckily you don't even need shields against Interceptors, the AX meta is a shieldless hulltank and it's not even an exceptionally tanky one at that).

 

[CMDR Alswulf]

Basic synthesis is okay(ish), premium (=damage increasing) synthesis is not. Maybe it's not easy (and it shouldn't even be), but it's possible to solo a Hydra without premium ammo.
Healies should totally be removed (AX combat is irrelevant here, luckily you don't even need shields against Interceptors, the AX meta is a shieldless hulltank and it's not even an exceptionally tanky one at that).

Hydra solo is possible without premms, it just requires much more synth/mats (which also kinda pain to gather), also agree for removing healies

 

[Pigletslastand]

Healies should totally be removed

I totally don't mind people making the choice to use them.. they're in the game for goodness sake and are fun if you're just mucking about in PvE but everyone will deride u if you try them in PvP but they are a legitimate thing... for the love of goodness don't use them though!! haha

But anyway that's slightly off topic for why we're here!

 

[galahad2069]

it just requires much more synth/mats (which also kinda pain to gather)

Yeah sure, but that's just a question of price (the amount of materials required), it definitely should be much cheaper.

 

[galahad2069]

I totally don't mind people making the choice to use them.. they're in the game for goodness sake and are fun if you're just mucking about in PvE but everyone will deride u if you try them in PvP but they are a legitimate thing... for the love of goodness don't use them though!! haha

But anyway that's slightly off topic for why we're here!

While it seems off-topic in itself, but it's still on-topic as a subject of comparison.
It literally makes no sense to "fix" (=nerf) something that's more of a positive thing from a balancing point of view while not touching anything else that's absolutely problematic.

 

[Pigletslastand]

While it seems off-topic in itself, but it's still on-topic as a subject of comparison.
It literally makes no sense to "fix" (=nerf) something that's more of a positive thing from a balancing point of view while not touching everything else that's absolutely problematic.

Agreed.. it would be much better if they looked at this from a holistic balancing approach where they game to the community first to get some feedback.. to be honest I was kind of alarmed to hear on stream they were thinking of changing it without input from the wide spectrum of users so started this thread in the hope we would get a broader voice for them to see on the subject but you are right.. would be nice if they looked at the balance of everything but I think that is a long way off and bye and large most of it is decent.. (rip hulltanks and stealth though)

 

[Morbad]

There are strong experimentals like TLB, the 4 secound Chaff etc

TLB was fairly potent before it had a cooldown, but is lackluster since that was implemented. It has some utility in interrupting missile lock and resetting subsystem targeting, but with it only working every five (?) seconds now it's hard to choose over more damage.

Dispersal is situationally potent, but it's a binary effect and there is almost never a reason to mount more than one dispersal weapon. Everything else can be TC, even if one thinks they'll be fighting gimbal users.

That's the problem with TC, it's not that it makes plasma easier to use, it's that it's usually the only special for plasma, and takes an already impressive source of damage and applies a universal and stacking increase to it, with no downsides.

A few random examples, just off the top of my head

The game has seven years of balance issues and bad fixes layered on top of each other like a rotting onion. Personally, I think it could use an overhaul from the ground up.

Plasma may not be anywhere near the top of my list of balance issues, even if I think it was silly to have changed it to do absolute damage, but thermal conduit is probably at the top of my list of balance issues within plasma itself.

someone is able to preturn me consistently and therefore he's capable of landing insane amount of TC PA damage on me?
More power to them, it's an utter non-issue, at least compared to all the above it most certainly is.

The issue is that even if you are every bit as good, or even modestly better, you still need to take TC on your plasma to be competitive, because none of the other specials for plasma do anything to most credible opponents.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Thermal Conduit certainly is a bit broken these days, to the point whre you’re not running it, you are putting yourself at a serious disadvantage.

With the changes to heat damage, as well as the adjustment to Thermal Conduit with 3.0, the drawbacks to using it are virtually negligible.

Prior to the engineering overhaul, Thermal Conduit came with a debuff, and the damage would indeed scale with heat level. Overheating was also much more dangerous back then, so it was rarely used.

Currently, if you are over 100% heat, you get a 50-60% damage buff, period. There is no damage debuff for being cooler at this time.

The removal of the debuff was certainly welcome, but I feel taking away the scaling damage was a mistake. That 50-60% increase is incredibly powerful, and needs to have some more serious drawbacks than a broken cargo hatch.

In support of the current state of Thermal Conduit— it is the best counter we have to the insane hitpoint inflation issue. In the past, Fdev discussed nerfing shields a bit— they did the exact opposite and buffed them with 3.0. Shields are stronger than ever, as is armor.

 

[Yamato2012]

Another hint that TC PAs are definitely over powered

Everyone probably knows about the "The Git Gud Guide to Trading in Open" explaining how to survive a PvP encounter with a T7, right?
Well, after the new TC PA meta settled in, the author of that video did a test against a FDL with 5 TC PA and no matter what they did, they always died in 3 simple clicks.

Now imagine what a full wing of these can do, and the poor PvE folks...
Please, consider voting up the issue.

Agreed its absolutely insanely broken, in addition to this massive damage buff it is also placed onto already the best weapons in the game.

 

[Pigletslastand]

Welp... can't argue with legit one of the best players in the game! ^^

 

[Yamato2012]

Welp... can't argue with legit one of the best players in the game! ^^

I think that TC and Heat damage must both be fixed at the same time, Id say heat damage is even more broken than TC to be honest, they must both be fixed to avoid a prismatic SRB rail meta aswell.

 

[Pigletslastand]

I think that TC and Heat damage must both be fixed at the same time, Id say heat damage is even more broken than TC to be honest, they must both be fixed to avoid a prismatic SRB rail meta aswell.

Agreed

 

[Kate Balthazar]

I think that TC and Heat damage must both be fixed at the same time, Id say heat damage is even more broken than TC to be honest, they must both be fixed to avoid a prismatic SRB rail meta aswell.

I wonder if there's something to that, if they make heat more dangerous, and maybe improve Thermal Cascade type experimentals as a specific hoser for ships which intentionally run hot? Tweaking TC numbers might reduce damage output, and increasing heat damage might mean a TC user needs to be more careful about its use, but if utilizing TC put the user at risk of taking a hit from a Thermal Cascade weapon and entering an uncontrollable meltdown, that might actually put off some people from using it. Just like how some wingfight builds today will forego SCBs since it can be assumed that good opponents will cancel the bank.