Instant Transfer: Practical Effects

[Goose4291]

In Powerplay for example you could fly your heavy merit carrying ship out to the fortification target, summon your asp/hauler taxi (for which the rebuy cost if lost will be lower) fly back at a much quicker rate than you could normally, summon your freighter and repeat.

This makes speed fortification considerably easier and also reduces further any risk of major loss.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

• what are the likely actual, gameplay consequences of instant ship transfer?

Much faster pace and versatility. You can instantly change what you're doing on a whim.

• how will this affect your own, personal gameplay?

Fuel scoops on all my ships will be a thing of the past. FSD mods will rather be faster boot sequence rather than increased range.

• how frequently does this seem likely to have an impact on your game, if any?

Always and permanently.

Bottom line: I like it. And let's not forget module storage and transfer. This will vastly enrich the gameplay of anyone who has yet only one ship. Easy refits for any task at hand, without losing the modules of the previous role fit. The icing on the cake would be the possibility to store and recall entire build configurations with one click, if all modules required for the new build are present at the location.

 

[mistohise]

If there is a concern that the facility is abusable to transport heavy fighters equipped with low-end FSDs, then I'd imagine that a fix for that is to only allow the transfer of ships that would otherwise [manually] be able to make the journey.

For me, I see the transfer of ships as a bonus. I'd have liked to see a time delay involved, purely from an immersive gameplay perspective, but ultimately I'm willing to handy-wave that, mostly because the other downsides of not having a time delay are fairly limited to "some idiot in open abusing the facility" and the problem there is "idiots in open" rather than "instant ship transfer".

I do think that there should be an element of risk involved in transport, depending on the journey involved (and perhaps there is, I have not read deeply into the announcements.) as it seems that transporting ships potentially vast distances to potentially insecure locations might leave them open to being hijacked or whatever.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Bear in mind that you you can't transfer and that FD has hinted distance cap - and it will cost.

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

Considering we will have module storage and transfer temporarily downgrading FSD will happen regardless of ship transfer. It's nonsense argument...

Hello sleutelbos,

I am not arguing with anything / anyone, I simply answered OPs questions

If i like the instant part of the transfer is now irrelevant, I am just trying to describe, how I would use (exploit) this new feature ;-)


Currently I just hop and hop and hop to the distant CG with my FDL... It takes time yes, but I do not really care. Its "my immersion" - I accepted, that FDL is a combat ship with crappy jump range.
If I want to use this ship for the CG, I must accept the fact, that getting there in it will be a tedious task of jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump - scoop - point to next system - jump HOORAY ! Interdiction, enemy player wing, KABOOOM ! :-D back to the beggining of this story :-D

o7 Karlos

 

[The Lawful]

Bear in mind that you you can't transfer and that FD has hinted distance cap - and it will cost.

Yes, and you will only be able to transfer to stations, in fact, only stations with shipyards. In general, I don't expect any major game impacts. Yes, it may be possible to transfer combat ships with low jump ranges faster and easier, though at a cost yet to be seen, but then, I recently went from the Pleiades CG up to Ambika in about an hour and a half in my FAS, and that was a 480ly travel. What difference does an hour or so really make? I definitely will not always bring the AspX first and then get the FAS or FDL via transfer and do the same on the way back to my homebase as well for sure. IIRC there have been FDLs even at Jaques, wonder what that would cost (if possible at all). And I would appreciate if there was no instant transfer, but if not, it's not the end of the world as we know it, and the matter in general is totally overblown IMHO. The feature itself is definitely nice. Lets see how it turns out in beta before to give FD a chance to adjust things if necessary. YMMV [noob]

 

[Agony_Aunt]

• what are the likely actual, gameplay consequences of instant ship transfer?
• how will this affect your own, personal gameplay?
• how frequently does this seem likely to have an impact on your game, if any?

Looking at the forums this morning, it appears we have given up trying to close threads on the same topic. But i like how this one is framed, so i'll respond.

1) Well, its hard to predict. Lots of wild speculation has gone on, and some of the things people are claiming are simply not possible. So ideally, probably best just to wait and see on this one.

2) Mainly just for keeping my fleet together. Got rank 5 FSD boosts on most of my ships, and as an Explorer its not like i care about whether a trip takes 10 jumps or 20. Mainly i'll keep flying the way i do, but when i want to relocate my home base or pop off to shinrata for a new ship, then ill probably do it in my Cobra and then use the summon. I find this to be a bonus. It saves time that would otherwise be wasted just mindlessly transferring ships back and forth. If there was a delay, it wouldn't change much anyway. If i decide at some point to move to Bubble 2.0, then it will be a major bonus.

3) Not frequent. I don't have plans to change my homebase any time soon. And except for when i head off exploring, i do most of my activities in and around my home system. Its mainly going to be an occasional time saver. If i have the need to travel somewhere a bit distant, then as long as i only need the one ship, then i'll travel in the ship i need. Even in the Gunship/Dropship (lowest range ships i have) its not likely to be more than 20 jumps. Switching ships would save me a tops of 10 mins. Don't see the point. At least i will travel in a combat capable ship and can pew-pew any pirates, rather than having to run like i would have to if i was in a stripped down jumping ship.

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

Looking at the forums this morning, it appears we have given up trying to close threads on the same topic. But i like how this one is framed, so i'll respond.

1) Well, its hard to predict. Lots of wild speculation has gone on, and some of the things people are claiming are simply not possible. So ideally, probably best just to wait and see on this one.

2) Mainly just for keeping my fleet together. Got rank 5 FSD boosts on most of my ships, and as an Explorer its not like i care about whether a trip takes 10 jumps or 20. Mainly i'll keep flying the way i do, but when i want to relocate my home base or pop off to shinrata for a new ship, then ill probably do it in my Cobra and then use the summon. I find this to be a bonus. It saves time that would otherwise be wasted just mindlessly transferring ships back and forth. If there was a delay, it wouldn't change much anyway. If i decide at some point to move to Bubble 2.0, then it will be a major bonus.

3) Not frequent. I don't have plans to change my homebase any time soon. And except for when i head off exploring, i do most of my activities in and around my home system. Its mainly going to be an occasional time saver. If i have the need to travel somewhere a bit distant, then as long as i only need the one ship, then i'll travel in the ship i need. Even in the Gunship/Dropship (lowest range ships i have) its not likely to be more than 20 jumps. Switching ships would save me a tops of 10 mins. Don't see the point. At least i will travel in a combat capable ship and can pew-pew any pirates, rather than having to run like i would have to if i was in a stripped down jumping ship.

I like your post, repped... o7 Karlos

 

[Cosmos]

Competely trivialises FSD ranges on all ships.
Removes players from the game world.
Almost Insta mobility around the bubble.
Ship redundancy.
Total evisceration of my suspension of disbelief.
Further unbalancing of PvP, a totally new set of min/max PvP meta.
No meaningful choices on ship load out or module setup.

In short it totally changes the way the game is played:


One ship to call them all, one ship to find them, one ship to bring them all and in the galaxy mind them

 

[DocLooshkin]

I was going to leave this thread to continue for a while, but since there's a hint that all threads on this and similar topics might be locked in favour of a megathread, at some point, I'll quickly reply to you all now.

To everyone who responded sensibly, I thank you all. Your responses are genuinely appreciated.

For the record, when I created this thread, it wasn't my intention to foreclose or diminish any particular viewpoint, but rather to get to the purely practical side of things. The other threads have this, but it's all a bit buried under players' subjective feelings - often about more lore-focused issues, such as seeing too many Asps - and not clearly visible.

For my own part, I have no strong opinions on the matter: it seems like a reasonable feature, a delay would have been nice, but if not, no great shakes. From this thread (and Ziljian's comments - about his investment in upgrading his ship - in other threads), I can see there are some issues that FD might want to address in some fashion.

I'll think further about your answers, but for now, I must get some sleep.
Thank you very much, everyone.

 

[Cynaqq]

For my that is a game braking effect, that players warships dont travel.
I know that you like EVERYTHING what FD will add or have added to the game . . .

I don't know, great minds think alike?

Jokes aside though, I don't simply like anything and everything. I just respect their decisions and trust their ability to analyse and reconsider if things don't go the way they predicted.

On the forums, I frequently oppose criticism not just for the sake of opposing it but to show there can be different sides to every discussion. I frequently defend the opposite view of what I think myself because in the end, FD are professionals and they should be able to come to the decision that's best for their game and their business. I believe in showing logical criticism or support instead of hyperbole and slippery slope arguments coupled with a lot of straw men.

So the truth is, I oppose the instant ship transfer to the core from a realism and philosophical point of view. I simply think game mechanics should make sense, and if combat ships have naturally short jump capabilities, they should suffer from it by being confined to smaller regions of space.

However, I also understand where FD is coming from and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Had the community on the forums voiced their opinion without depending on the logical fallacies I mentioned, I would have an easier time to chime in with my true feelings but no one does that except a few. I'd like to see balanced discussions instead of this illogical flame fests.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Competely trivialises FSD ranges on all ships.
Removes players from the game world.
Almost Insta mobility around the bubble.
Ship redundancy.
Total evisceration of my suspension of disbelief.
Further unbalancing of PvP, a totally new set of min/max PvP meta.
No meaningful choices on ship load out or module setup.

In short it totally changes the way the game is played:


One ship to call them all, one ship to find them, one ship to bring them all and in the galaxy mind them

The Hyperbole Hero strikes again! You heard it here first folks: no meangful loadout choices anymore! FSD range trivialised! Instant mobility!

Next up: area man claims increase in price of grapefruits likely to destroy humanity!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Competely trivialises FSD ranges on all ships.

How? You still have to get around. If im pirating a system over, i still need to get out of that system. I'm not pirating in a max jump range ship. I'm still going to want good jump range on all my ships.

Removes players from the game world.

What??? How? People don't leave the game to make ship transfers.

Almost Insta mobility around the bubble.

No. You still have to travel. Depending on distance, you might shave off some minutes travelling in a high range ship, but you also increase risk doing so if you have it stripped down for max range.

Ship redundancy.

How? You really suggesting some ships will no longer be flown (beyond what already exists)? I'm with MB on this one, i think we will see more variety in ship usage, as people will now be more likely to buy those low range ships for their fleets as they can now transport them easily.

Total evisceration of my suspension of disbelief.

Eviscration you say? Wow.... Do what i plan on doing. Just pretend they are being transported in real time. Suspension of disbelief restored. Even if FD do decide that 3D printing is how they will hand wave it away, it won't be like that in my head. The 3D printing suggestion is dumb on so many levels.

Further unbalancing of PvP, a totally new set of min/max PvP meta.

PvP unbalanced you say? Well, i never. Keep in mind though, high waking is still the best way to get out of a combat situation. Any PvPer that nerfs their range into the ground to get a little extra performance is going to be denied that ability. Its a risky choice.

No meaningful choices on ship load out or module setup.

Right. Let me know how well you get on in combat zones in that stripped down Asp will you?

 

[Kellan Fell]

The Hyperbole Hero strikes again! You heard it here first folks: no meangful loadout choices anymore! FSD range trivialised! Instant mobility!

Next up: area man claims increase in price of grapefruits likely to destroy humanity!

I don't think it's hyperbole, it's a genuine fear. Currently we have no real idea how the mechanic will be implemented, what the costs will be or anything about it, but you've got to admit that on face value it seems to do away with the need to balance FSD range with firepower on a combat build any more. It may be that it is so expensive to transfer a ship that only the many billionaires in the game will be able to afford it, and so we will have to grind for credits in order to be able to perform transfers, or that you can only transfer if you are allied to the controlling faction at the target station, so we will have to grind reputation for transfers. Based off previous FDev implementations either of these is possible, since everything they introduce seems to be a new way of getting some grind in there

Until 2.2 comes out, it's all just speculation and opinion, and my opinion is that if a gameplay mechanic is deemed to be bad, rather than removing it, try to improve it...

 

[Cynaqq]

The Hyperbole Hero strikes again! You heard it here first folks: no meangful loadout choices anymore! FSD range trivialised! Instant mobility!

Next up: area man claims increase in price of grapefruits likely to destroy humanity!

Oh no, he's right.

Don't you know everybody just ran around in pure combat fit ships, jumping for hundreds of ly each and every day? Don't you know the only meaningful decision on loadouts was how far the jump range was? Don't you know the majority of the playerbase is playing in Open and their gameplay balance is dependent on the inability of combat specialist pilots being unable to travel around?

Now that people can just call in their ship to anywhere in the bubble, they no longer have to think about how to best fit their combat ship because any loadout will do. PVP fit ships with shortest FSD ranges will SWARM every system in Open and no where will be safe.

You know what will happen? Pirates will just run around in their 50ly engineered Asps, and then when they find a juicy target upon their travels, will quickly land in a station, will call their FAS or FDL, go back out to supercruise while the whale is still in transit, incapacitate the whale, go back to the station and call in a freighter ship, go back to the whale because they'll be in a wing and the beacon will be on, break out its cargo and profit.

Don't you see how game breaking this is?

 

[Trueno33]

- hey, I have eight ships in my fleet
- fine, where are they parked?
- erm, right here in my pocket

 

[Lestenio]

Travel simply becomes jump into max range ship and jump, jump, jump. Swap to ship of choice and do stuff.
If travel is so insignificant, we might as well do away with it completely. Free instant travel anywhere if you don't hold cargo.

 

[CMDR Aengus]

It's going to be awesome.
I will play more instead of, meh I cant be bothered moving ships just for one night's gameplay at a CG or something else I found interesting. Because by the time I've finished moving, it will be way past my bedtime.

The way i see it, I've simply programmed all my ships computers to follow me round in a wing and re-establish new FOBs in areas of interest. Albeit maybe a few minutes behind me.

Immersion solved!

I'm not going to stop playing around with modules and loadouts, I'll probably still fit half decent fsds because, high wake anyone! when I'm down on shields and hull.

And as has happened to me before, I've found CZs in systems without stations in a pure combat build and then found I can't wake out to get repairs, rearm and refuel or there's no systems in range with stations that can rearm, repair and refuel.

Swopping mods out in a ship just to travel somewhere to do a CG or wing up or anything else. Getting there and finding the station doesn't have what I need, or no outfitting and then spending and hour faffing about trying to find what I need...

Then it way past my bedtime again.

Tldr

I will play more.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't think it's hyperbole, it's a genuine fear. Currently we have no real idea how the mechanic will be implemented, what the costs will be or anything about it, but you've got to admit that on face value it seems to do away with the need to balance FSD range with firepower on a combat build any more. It may be that it is so expensive to transfer a ship that only the many billionaires in the game will be able to afford it, and so we will have to grind for credits in order to be able to perform transfers, or that you can only transfer if you are allied to the controlling faction at the target station, so we will have to grind reputation for transfers. Based off previous FDev implementations either of these is possible, since everything they introduce seems to be a new way of getting some grind in there

Until 2.2 comes out, it's all just speculation and opinion, and my opinion is that if a gameplay mechanic is deemed to be bad, rather than removing it, try to improve it...

No, it is not reasonable fear. Allow me to demonstrate:

MODULES CAN BE STORED.

Let me repeat that: MODULES CAN BE STORED.

It doesnt matter how you transfer your ship, manually, instantly or delayed if you're concerned with everyone using FSD 2E on their corvette. That will be totally possible regardless of how that ship got there. You will just dock, get the tiny FSD, and when you want to leave you plop the modded high-end FSD back in.

Before mods existed this was already the case, you'd just find a CZ/res in a high-tech or some such system, and you'd go ape with your lightweight ship. Nobody every complained about it, and when it was discussed it was discussed as a form of tactics and planning. So why are we so fearful of it now? Because people dont like the concept of instant transfer and are drumming up fake reasons why it shouldnt happen, rather than just be honest about it and say it breaks their immersion. People who want to farm might put a tiny FSD in their corvette, regardless of ship transfer. People who do missions wont, because it'll take far more time if you have to change ships for every 10LY jump.

As for your last sentence: what if it does work for some (explorers), but doesnt for others (people just trying to get to their mining ship for a relaxing mining-session)? Maybe keep it the same for explorers and change it for the latter? Ofcourse, that only works if people acknowledge that different people have different 'needs' in ED, and can tolerate others playing in a different way. Which the fanatics as usual cant accept. They want to wait 15 minutes? Then everyone should wait 15 minutes. Why? Because.

 

[CMDR Aengus]

Aaaand none of this matters a jot when you're outside the bubble anyway.

Fancy that.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

OH oh oh..and... For explorers returning from a long trip, pop into the nearest station. Dial up your best, toughest combat ship. Take all your data to your preferred choice of faction and hand in.

Awesomeballs

I like it even more.