Interdiction Dodgers

[Elios0]

i would like to add on the subject of interdictions that there needs to be a way to make it clear to other players AND npcs that THEY ARE BEING PIRATED
people ether seem to ignore or not know how to use the voice coms and people dont seem to read text
maybe a pirate interdiction module that makes a clear warning this isnt just the cops or some one wanting to just kill them

also there does need to be some thing done about combat logging and i see how people would just run back to solo or group
what about giving some incentive to play open maybe better mission pay outs? or the like

 

[Commander Silex]

True, but I imagine they could make it like how the current attack system works. You can interdict a wanted player for no bounty (just like you can blow them up for no bounty - they have a bounty on their head after all) but if you pull a clean player out of supercruise to pirate them, just the act of pulling them out warrants a fine.

A bounty hunter may or may not know their target is wanted for sure. This certainly fits into a moral grey area, but let's give an example.

A player knows Pirate player a is a criminal (or at least had a sizeable bounty on them recently). They see said pirate in a system they hold no bounty in, yet they want to interdict them to KSW scan them. Doing so renders them a criminal if it is done in civilized space, despite the fact the pirate is wanted in other star systems.

 

[Sayne]

I don't really like the sound of that, it's going too much the other way. If it was to work like that then it should only be in a few of the highest security systems.

I mean, obviously in Anarchy systems, anything goes. If you shoot someone you get a bounty, obviously. But if you essentially throw a sack over their head and drag them kicking and screaming into an alleyway to mug them (which is what interdiction is), then I think that should result in a fine / bounty too.

 

[Commander Silex]

I don't really like the sound of that, it's going too much the other way. If it was to work like that then it should only be in a few of the highest security systems.

The Galnet stories from around release time about FSD interdictors paint a fairly clear picture about them being a contentious issue. As such I wouldn't be that surprised if something happens someday.

 

[Elios0]

People do macro that even. So it is 100% up time with no player interaction, a 100% immunity to gimbals and turret buff for two utility slots. It kind of not ideal and imo the devs never thought about people using just several of the same modules. Same for the shield cells which people run as well with several.

so limit to one chaff unit and lower the number and up the reload time
done

 

[Sayne]

A bounty hunter may or may not know their target is wanted for sure. This certainly fits into a moral grey area, but let's give an example.

A player knows Pirate player a is a criminal (or at least had a sizeable bounty on them recently). They see said pirate in a system they hold no bounty in, yet they want to interdict them to KSW scan them. Doing so renders them a criminal if it is done in civilized space, despite the fact the pirate is wanted in other star systems.

I see your point, but I think if I were the security forces in the system, that would be decent price to pay for the safety of the majority of clean pilots.

And you could just pull him out anyways as the bounty hunter. If you pull him out, KWS him and he's wanted in Alliance space for 300,000 but you're currently in Empire space and he's clean as a whistle, you're still gonna get the Po-po after you for shooting him down.

 

[Father Cool]

What is it with cops interdicting you in any case? Surely some kind of warning that they are in fact police wanting to kick your tyres so that you can pull over quietly and not damage your ship if you lose the interdiction fight. It doesn't render your ship a wreck granted but an annoying repair bill of a few hundred creds is enough to object to such acts on principle. A bit like the police pulling along side you and nudging your car onto the kerb rather than flashing their lights!

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

That super easy avoidable. Bounty payout is limited insurance costs of the destroyed ship. Make them pay for each and every credit of their bounty. That way the system can not be exploited to make credits.

There are only two possibilities.

1. All bounty hunter income eventually derives from the losses of pirated merchants
2. The system can be exploited for free credits

I don't see how you can have one without the other. So if bounty hunting is to be profitable, the trading community has to support the bounty hunting community. And if piracy is to be profitable, then the traders have to support both communities with their losses to piracy.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

The problem is that, since the interdiction module is not a weapon, it is not considered an attack. Therefore, a person who is interdicted or not is not subject to the combat log mechanism, as they are not in danger. Unless the module is re-designated as a weapon, this would not change. If it is designated as a weapon then you will face fines for it's use. So your choice, weapon, and combat log injunction, or not a weapon and no combat log injunction.

That doesn't follow. The legality of using a FDS Interdictor is a game world issue. Whether or not it appears in the combat log is a game implementation issue. The two are entirely separate. One is lore, the other is game mechanics.

 

[PacalB]

TBH I wish these chicken poo commanders would just move over to solo mode, after all why bother to play online if they are going to chicken out of any contact ??

A tad bit inflammatory a line like that, still I get what you are saying but I think you are wrong. You know, you are wrong to whine about this, as the player base increases there are going to be a hell of a lot more characters like yourself looking to go guns up and get into a tussle. It's only a matter of time, You need to learn a bit of patience and stop 'expecting' Rome to be built in a day. It will come, and for god sake man, stop expecting people to play the game the way 'you personally' want to play it. Stop throwing the toys out of your pram there, it's not cool. I truly doubt you've had that many people drop out of game because of your interdicts, I've interdicted people all over the place and haven't had one person do what you say you are experiencing. So who's special here? Me? You? I get the feeling, you just want to toughen the penalties of the game up so you can get more results, yes?

 

[Rennard]

This seems like a good idea. But you need to block solo and group play than too for as long as this was not resolved and most players would still simply discon and play something else instead of giving up their cargo. So in the end it would not have the wanted result. Sorry.

I think maybe you haven't quite understood me. If you don't reconnect in the given window then the player gets to destroy your ship and claim your cargo/bounty. Its in your interest to recover from the disconnect (or don't force disconnect).

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

True, but I imagine they could make it like how the current attack system works. You can interdict a wanted player for no bounty (just like you can blow them up for no bounty - they have a bounty on their head after all) but if you pull a clean player out of supercruise to pirate them, just the act of pulling them out warrants a fine.

Clean players can have bounties on their head. That is why we KWS them ;-)

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I think maybe you haven't quite understood me. If you don't reconnect in the given window then the player gets to destroy your ship and claim your cargo/bounty. Its in your interest to recover from the disconnect (or don't force disconnect).

You are correct, I seem to have over-read or just simply forgot about that part when answering. See right now no loopholes than.

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so limit to one chaff unit and lower the number and up the reload time
done

Imho with only one it is kind of balanced. You can navigate around the timers with your gimballed cobra if you just boost in those moments out of your targets view or just keep at his six and use the pause to recharge your capacitor.

 

[Xantasia]

A Work Around That Puts Everyone Equal Open/Solo/Groups

Wow so many posts in such a short space of time, glad i am no longer in the age group that needs to take exams

My apologies if i have missed this being posted but.........

As i see it the problem ( QTD )has an easy fix ( ok i admit i have no idea about program code etc etc ).

If i lose connection or quit via task manager when i start the game again i am in the same system as before but at zero speed and out of SC. So my logic is that the Servers remember where i was. Could some sort of telemetry ( Big word lol) be added so that the instance was recorded in terms of ships/rankings etc.

When you restart the game you are put back in the same situation as when you left,regardless of what type of loss of connection caused it.
Yes i know its a persistant universe and all that it entails but bear with me.

If i am fighting a CMDR and he/she disconnects then i lose nothing but enjoyment.
When the CMDR next decides to play again regardless of Mode then he/she should be back in the same situation as when they left ie in a fight.

Yes it may sound like an offline mode but thats not my view point.

1. The universe will continue to evolve as normal, so no change.
2. The CMDR will not be against the same CMDR as the universe moves tick by tick.
3. The CMDR should be up against an AI in the same ship and same rank as the CMDR before the disconnect.

Point 3 is the main point, it is unrealistic to put both CMDRs back in the same situation, as 1 or both could not play again for weeks, but what it does is say "Ok i lost connection in the middle of a fight, i am not going to complain if i get to restart where i lost connection".

Yes i guess it will cause extra work for the devs but if it was separate from the save and exit feature, and i am sure they can spot the difference,then apart from those wishing to maybe take advantage of an in game mechanic the who else is going to complain.

It should work for game freezes etc if you need to force close, if you are in a station then thats where you get put back as of now, nothing really needs to change overall from the players point of in game process, its just the poor Devs that would need to work on how to implement it.

Sorry Devs, i love you all really

Anyway time to run and hide



EDIT

The restart into a combat situation should only be if disconnect was whilst in a combat situation.

Maybe a linear increase in class/rank of ship/pilot if multi disconnects in a given time frame.

A notice given before selecting start mode saying you are being placed back into a combat situation.

As all modes are switchable, switching between them will not avoid being put back into a combat situation.

 

[Sayne]

Clean players can have bounties on their head. That is why we KWS them ;-)

Thread's moving pretty quick, man, I addressed that point... errr... here we go! (After a mad scramble to find the right link) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=30&p=1579757&viewfull=1#post1579757

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

There are only two possibilities.

1. All bounty hunter income eventually derives from the losses of pirated merchants
2. The system can be exploited for free credits

I don't see how you can have one without the other. So if bounty hunting is to be profitable, the trading community has to support the bounty hunting community. And if piracy is to be profitable, then the traders have to support both communities with their losses to piracy.

Jup and for that very reason I have no problem with traders making 10 times as much as bounty hunters or pirates, because with proper game mechanics they have to share a little of that with the rest of the players.

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Thread's moving pretty quick, man, I addressed that point... errr... here we go! (After a mad scramble to find the right link) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=30&p=1579757&viewfull=1#post1579757

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=30&p=1579757&highlight=#post1579757

Oh, you did found it as well, I would agree that getting fine might be appropriated for intercepting cleans, those fines are anyway rather small. It would solve as well the issue of shooting first after an interdiction for traders, they are free to shoot the red.

Personally I would even more prefer to simply kw and cargo scan out of super-cruise.

 

[Darkwolf]

A player knows Pirate player a is a criminal (or at least had a sizeable bounty on them recently). They see said pirate in a system they hold no bounty in, yet they want to interdict them to KSW scan them. Doing so renders them a criminal if it is done in civilized space, despite the fact the pirate is wanted in other star systems.

Yes, and what that bounty hunter did IS illegal in that jurisdiction. Like in real life, a bounty hunter can't just go and assault someone and drag them away just anywhere. Matter of fact, RL bounty hunters are routinely arrested and tried for kidnapping when they attempt to apprehend wanted persons in jurisdictions where that isn't recognized.

 

[[VR]tailgunner30uk]

That doesn't follow. The legality of using a FDS Interdictor is a game world issue. Whether or not it appears in the combat log is a game implementation issue. The two are entirely separate. One is lore, the other is game mechanics.

I see so you want the best of both worlds. Interdictor module, not a weapon for the purposes of PvP, so that you as a PvPer can attack your victim without consequence, but your victim must be punished for choosing to leave the game when not being shot at with a weapon. Now all is clear!

 

[lexandro]

I see so you want the best of both worlds. Interdictor module, not a weapon for the purposes of PvP, so that you as a PvPer can attack your victim without consequence, but your victim must be punished for choosing to leave the game when not being shot at with a weapon. Now all is clear!

Interdicting someone is not a crime, nor should it ever be. Attacking a player is a crime, as it should be. You seem to be under the misapprehension that interdictions = attack when it is nothing of the sort. In point of fact, as a "police" unit players should be pulling ships out of SC to check the cargo for smugglers. If it was considered an attack, it would completely screw up half the gameplay options we have.

 

[Uueerdo]

Yes, and what that bounty hunter did IS illegal in that jurisdiction. Like in real life, a bounty hunter can't just go and assault someone and drag them away just anywhere. Matter of fact, RL bounty hunters are routinely arrested and tried for kidnapping when they attempt to apprehend wanted persons in jurisdictions where that isn't recognized.

Yep, I can't remember what it was I read when I was still figuring out if I was going to buy this game, but it definitely didn't give the impression the bounty hunters were just making "citizen's arrests". Now, if the interdicting player in question is green for the faction controlling the system, I could see that allowing interdiction without flagging; but I don't see system authorities letting "some guy we've never heard of or don't even like" lay down "spike strips" freely.

That said, KWS should be usable in SC.

 

[BlackReign]

Actually he said he hadn't seen any "human wanted players" - and to be fair neither have I.

In fact is this at all related to all player's combat ratings appearing as Harmless?

I'm Expert currently, but another player confirmed that I'm just coming up as Harmless to them. Maybe all players are coming up Clean as well even though they're Wanted?

hmmmm, interesting. Have your reported that obvious bug? That's not cool at all.