You want full ship interiors or just cockpits?
Because with only cockpits you’d still need to model the collisions. But it’s less work for sure.
Then you’d get fancy walk around and then fade to black to the exterior… which is not that much better.
Interiors Vs FDEV's Escape Argument
- Thread starter Mav359
- Start date
You want full ship interiors or just cockpits?
Because with only cockpits you’d still need to model the collisions. But it’s less work for sure.
Then you’d get fancy walk around and then fade to black to the exterior… which is not that much better.
I am aware of that one and x4 that kinda does that without detailed interiors.
Then no other simulators that I have played does that, and the best ones I know do not do that… they simulate vehicles and focus on them and solid missions and careers.
I would not go as far as saying that vehicle exit and entry and on foot vehicle discovery is where simulators shine since they do not do that except two of them.
I also think that (I would say I know that, but the truth is I don't KNOW it as I don't work for Frontier)
Because want to put blocks in the way of things they don't want to do. Remember, is a one dimensional company. They struggle to see the issue from any other perspective but the brick wall in front of them.
While I entirely agree with you, seems to be determined to block this direction of development. Odyssey was (and largely still is) a less than MVP so things like this were WAY out of scope I suspect! But keep pointing this stuff out... Hell, some of it might make it past the 'filter out all suggestions' sub-processor.
Full interiors would be great,partial interiors would be fine for now,corridors connecting these areas,remove all fade to black transitions and finish that part of the game.
This is something we could get FD to consider.
Weird chicken and egg argument.
No. You don’t start work on something in any domain without purpose. You don’t model something in a game without thinking about its purpose and then you find something to do with it.
I work as a modeler in a game studio, I have been doing this since 2000 and did some modding before that. Every cent I have comes from that line of work. You never model stuff and try to justify it afterward. That’s the best way to bankrupt your project.
I don’t know what work you do but I am sure it works the same. You don’t start work on something without knowing why.
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I keep saying the same thing, but still...
Modelling a plausible ship interior isn't the hard part.
The hard part is creating a system that allows players to stick any module in any slot and still result in a plausible interior layout.
It should be possible to do this, using a variety of "cheats" and workarounds and/or allowing players the freedom to decide where slots are physically located within the interior of a ship and then create corridors and elevators for themselves but it'd be pretty difficult to create a system that allowed the game to generate plausible interiors automatically, only using the currently available outfitting tools.
Basically, what you'd need would be something a bit like the base-construction system in games like Fallout 4 or Subnautica, where you'd place prefabricated modules within your ship and then add things like corridors, doors and elevators.
Only trouble is, those things are static within their game-worlds.
In ED, the interior you created would need to be able to move through the game-world dynamically.
That's probably going to require moving quite a bit of data around, using ED's P2P netcode.
Which is why you should ignore the module 'slots' and build a generic 'backbone' for each ship with the common required functions. For me, a suit change locker (removing the ability to suit change in a small SRV - perhaps in a larger one) and a bunk (respawn point if killed when not wanted) are probably the ideals.
Additional modules should be designed and fitted around the common cores. For some, they should probably be accessed by 'lift' (spawn mechanism).
The current outfitting tools are pretty abstract. To physicalise them you likely need to cheat.
Basically, what you'd need would be something a bit like the base-construction system in games like Fallout 4 or Subnautica, where you'd place prefabricated modules within your ship and then add things like corridors, doors and elevators.
Only trouble is, those things are static within their game-worlds.
In ED, the interior you created would need to be able to move through the game-world dynamically.
That's probably going to require moving quite a bit of data around, using ED's P2P netcode.
From a network point of view, this is why ships in Starwars Galaxies had opaque (from outside) windows. It culls immediately the need to network update on a frame by frame update the contents of separate ships TO the contents of separate ships.
A gloss black tinted outer window (for both concourses, buildings and ships) saves an absolute nightmare in network synchronisation.
Agree with both of these things... mostly.
As an explorer, I would (as I also keep saying) like the ability to spend time interacting with my ship.
Arrive in a system, stick it into SC, head toward some distant planet and then head over to the engine-room or an equipment room to tweak/service/repair things.
It'd be nice if everything was physically represented as a "room" but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.
Each ship could have, say, an "maintenance room" which'd be populated by doodads that represent all the stuff you have fitted to your ship so you wouldn't have to see the actual thing, itself.
There could be stuff bolted to the walls to represent core-modules such as sensors, FSD, life-support, PDist etc and there could be a bunch of blanking-panels which get replaced by other doodads when you fit things like a shield, AFMU, limpet controllers, SCBs etc.
Basically, a ship interior could consist of just a bridge/cockpit, a maintenance-room, an engine room (optional) and personal quarters.
The only other "cheat" required would be related to SLF/SRV hangars.
They would need to seem to be in a plausible position, near the bottom of the ship - which'd mean setting the game up so that whatever size hangar you fitted, and however many hangars you fitted, they'd always appear to be in a plausible position.
I might be wrong but it seems like that should be easy enough to achieve simply by accessing them via an elevator, which always takes you to the desired location with no regard for whether those slots are, physically, where they "should" be within the ship's interior.
Obviously, this wouldn't be acceptable for those who want to be able to wander around their Annies/Belugas/Cutters and look inside every cabin or inspect all their cargo but it'd be fine with me.
Oh I wasn't trying to imply otherwise, but had missed the bit where the other user was talking about developing areas with nothing to do in them. I agree things shouldn't be modeled willy-nilly. Thought we were still at the conceptual part.
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It's great that all of the software development experts in this thread have given professional cconsultancy advice to Frontier for free on this thread. I'm sure that, with this new knowledge, we'll have ship interiors available in the next update. Hurray and huzzah to all!
Maybe people who never did that job will understand one day after being told countless times that it’s not simple and not cheap and that it requires a better justification than « I want to walk around » before starting that task.
Maybe… but I am not holding my breath.
But hey I agree that it would be damn impressive if we could do that. At some point yeah it would be great.
In terms of justification, how about the CEO of the company outlining that exact thing in the game's development plan 9 years ago?
The intended direction for Ship Interiors was not revisited at any point, other than players being told shortly before the release of Odyssey that it's coming not at launch, and most recently that there are no plans for it.
And Space Engineers. And X has something like this. As does Helion, a game made by like 3 guys.
A scenario like that would require a really epic background, you being chased etc. But looking at the current state of things.. i dunno... I think I could even stop in the crew lounge for a tea before having to take off.
Yep, so do other simulators - even those that typically only rely on vehicle simulation, e.g. almost all of the Bus and Train Simulator games...
But right now we have modelled ship cockpits that you can't walk around, modelled stairs into ships that you can't climb up, modelled SRV bays that you can't get to, and an immersion breaking blue circle teleport cop out.
Repeating - Stage 1 should be that you land, and when landed you can get out of your chair and walk to a door at the back of the cockpit that as a minimum fades you to an airlock at the top of the stairs / ladder, or to your SRV hangar. At that point, as a minimum a door opens with a his of air and you descent the stairs or ladder or ramp to the surface. Hardly any new geometry involved and no instancing concerns as the transition is handled by the fade.
Later, you could add to that by placing, say, a suit locker and an armoury in the airlock to bring immersion to the loadout aspect. You could add to that by connecting the rooms with a lift or a corridor. You could add to that by adding rooms off the corridor, like a customisable respawn bunk, or whatever other rooms might come with time. Those are nice to haves for sure, but the teleporting to the surface and teleporting into your seat are weak design decisions at the very best. It wasn't Yamiks that came up with the Armstrong moment, it was Frontier. They have not even close to delivered even an interim version of this at the moment.
9 years ago he did not have a crystal ball. Didn’t know how much money he will have and what state the game would be in. It was just talk.