Ships Introducing the Diamondback Explorer

They are updating the shadows in the Lakon ships including the Asp, so the visuals should be better in 1.3. They are also updating the sound of the engine straining. Both have been praised highly by beta testers, but beauty is in the ear of the listener. I too have a love/hate relationship with the Asp. But it looks like the best explorer option atm, so we are stuck with it for now. More importantly though, we still have this amazing game that is going to get even better in so many ways 1.3 ;)

Yes - don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on the game at all - I love it. And I cannot wait for 1.3 to arrive.

On that note: tomorrow please, if you're listening FD? So we can play on the weekend? I don't care if there are bugs.

I have given up on the Asp (it's not a criticism of the game in any way) - I just can't bear those bars in the cockpit, and those little lights: and the engine just makes my skin crawl. I have bought about 3-4 now, fitted them out for exploration and turned around after a few jumps and sold them - returning to Cobra/Dropship/Python. Have tried exploring in the Hauler and Adder but - again - once you've spent time in better ships it's hard to enjoy them.

Am planning a Sagg A trip - but at the moment am planning it in the Cobra as I like the feel of it compared to other options. If the DBE feels as good (or close) and I can get a useful few more Ls range then I will be very happy.
 
Looking forward to grabbing one of these, taking it for a spin. althou I already have a explorer specced Asp, gonna take the Diamondback out for some long range runs, who knows might have a better feel to it ;)

after thats its the "Sidewinder Exploration Trip" might visit Sag A :D
 
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Real excited to get one of these! Now I just need to find a station I can finally call home to store my Vulture and soon to be acquired DB-E before 1.3 release. Looking forward to it!
 
I do hope they introduce a dedicated explorer ship, but I am guessing that Mike Evans is pretty miffed at the naysayers right now, and our next explorer ship will be a true punishment ship. I am thinking it will have a fuel scoop two classes above it's FSD, but it will have a maneuverability=0, top speed=300, weak shields, and will tend to crash a lot during planetary landings.

I'm thinking that a dedicated explorer ship would be about on par with the price of the Anaconda but with a greater emphasis placed on FSD than normal space flight. So with that said, I don't see it being much different stats-wise than a base Anaconda but slightly lighter and likely to follow the module layout of the DBE but more modules. With atmospheric flight in mind, I think something along the idea of how the engines and winglets shift on the DBE when the gear comes down will probably be a concept used on future explorer ships, or really future ships in general. The DBE seems like the first real ship we will have in the game with atmospheric flight in mind. Most of the other ships in the game seem like they would have to rely on brute force and to quote Buzz Lightyear "Falling in style" to land on plants.

The reason I think that the next explorer minded ship will have a module layout similar to the DBE is because it follows the stripped down flying gas can model to try and extract the most of the ship and power plant size will be smaller to save on weight which will require the commander to be more skilled in power management.
 
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Real excited to get one of these! Now I just need to find a station I can finally call home to store my Vulture and soon to be acquired DB-E before 1.3 release. Looking forward to it!

Wolf 406 Hamilton Gateway had the community goal that awarded the 20% discount.
 
18 seconds is too long?! Are you serious?

Bizarre, eh?


Parallel World, where Diamondback Explorer is released with...

FRAME SHIFT DRIVE : Class 4
FUEL TANK SIZE: 16 Tonnes
MAX FUEL SCOOP: Class 4

Player reviews...

"Exquisite balance!"
"10/10, would speed-explore again!"
"Buckyball on a Budget, perfect!"
"I say, this vehicle's Scoop-to-Jump Ratio is better than the P/E of Apple!"


Our World, where Diamondback Explorer is released with...

FRAME SHIFT DRIVE : Class 4... NO!... -> Class 5
FUEL TANK SIZE: 16 Tonnes... NO!... -> 32 Tonnes
MAX FUEL SCOOP: Class 4

Player reviews...

"Takes too long to fuel scoop!"
"Poorly balanced!"
"This is not for Real Explorers."
"Fuel Scoop is way too small - 18 seconds to refill it is rubbish!"
"For a true Explorer, speed is everything."




Seriously, the Diamondback Scout came with this, if I remember correctly...

FRAME SHIFT DRIVE : Class 4
FUEL TANK SIZE: 16 Tonnes
MAX FUEL SCOOP: Class 3

...and "Real" explorers (cough) wanted one change... a Class 4 Fuel Scoop.


Now an alternate design appears with a Class 4 Fuel Scoop, only THIS one can ALSO...

- Fly further without refuelling
- Jump greater distances between stars.


Which is... good... isn't it, when you think about it.


Because now, you can...

- Fly a more direct route
- Cross more "sparse" regions directly, instead of detouring around them
- Cross more "non-scoopable" regions directly, instead of detouring around them


Correct?
 
<snip>

Player reviews...

"Takes too long to fuel scoop!"
"Poorly balanced!"
"This is not for Real Explorers."
"Fuel Scoop is way too small - 18 seconds to refill it is rubbish!"
"For a true Explorer, speed is everything."

<snip>

What's funny is that the same posters worried and voicing their displeasure here are met with the same responses by posters in the beta forum. From what I've been reading in the beta forum, the main complaint is that for a ship of its size it pitches awfully slow. So bring the guns to bear against a target is problematic considering that the ship's shields hampered due to the weight of the ship being over the optimum. I'm not a shield statistic wizard, but I do remember reading that the Imperial Courier's shields are not that far behind the Vulture's.

At any rate, due to the abilities of the DBE I'm definitely going to buy it.
 
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Bizarre, eh?


Correct?

It. Is. Not. About. Fuel. Tank. Size. It. Is. About. FSD. Class. Versus. Scoop. Class.

Throughput. Is. Not. Capacity.

Class 4 FSD is generally paired with a class 5 scoop (type 6), or at the very least class 4 scoop (cobra). Class 5 FSD is paired with a class 6 scoop (asp). Class 5 FSD and class 4 scoop = undersized scoop. Moving a scoop up to 4, while moving FSD class up to 5 just makes the problem worse -- it's not the absolute class that matters, but having the right size for both FSD and scoop. Adder scoops just fine with a class 3 FSD and a class 3 scoop.

Fuel tank is completely irrelevant. Fuel tank is completely irrelevant. Fuel tank is completely irrelevant.

Jesus Christ. I should stop reading this forum, it is making me very sad. Do you ... actually own a car? Have you done a road trip in it?
 
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It. Is. Not. About. Fuel. Tank. Size. It. Is. About. FSD. Class. Versus. Scoop. Class.

Throughput. Is. Not. Capacity.

Class 4 FSD is generally paired with a class 5 scoop (type 6), or at the very least class 4 scoop (cobra). Class 5 FSD is paired with a class 6 scoop (asp). Class 5 FSD and class 4 scoop = undersized scoop. Fuel tank is completely irrelevant.

Jesus Christ. I should stop reading this forum, it is making me very sad. Do you ... actually own a car? Have you done a road trip in it?

You can increase it by flying on economy.
 
It. Is. Not. About. Fuel. Tank. Size. It. Is. About. FSD. Class. Versus. Scoop. Class.

Throughput. Is. Not. Capacity.

Class 4 FSD is generally paired with a class 5 scoop (type 6), or at the very least class 4 scoop (cobra). Class 5 FSD is paired with a class 6 scoop (asp). Class 5 FSD and class 4 scoop = undersized scoop. Moving a scoop up to 4, while moving FSD class up to 5 just makes the problem worse -- it's not the absolute class that matters, but having the right size for both FSD and scoop. Adder scoops just fine with a class 3 FSD and a class 3 scoop.

Fuel tank is completely irrelevant. Fuel tank is completely irrelevant. Fuel tank is completely irrelevant.

Jesus Christ. I should stop reading this forum, it is making me very sad. Do you ... actually own a car? Have you done a road trip in it?

I reprogram the ECU of my car in assembler, actually...
 
Chassis diversion leads to interesting thing, look at all the ships and envisage 3 different chassis types, now we are having fun :)
 
I'm tempted to make fuel scooping incredibly slower just to spite everyone that makes such a big deal over mere seconds when I'm sure going the toilet or just spacing out adds up to more wasted time in their 6 hour marathon sessions of Elite lol

First off great ship Mike! Loving the design and color scheme of her, a real beauty. As for that little tidbit on making scooping slower, I believe it would be the right thing to do since we're getting additional fuel tanks right?
 
now, you can...

- Fly a more direct route
- Cross more "sparse" regions directly, instead of detouring around them
- Cross more "non-scoopable" regions directly, instead of detouring around them


Correct?


It is definitely a modest improvement over the scout. Because now it only takes 3 seconds longer to refill your tank than a DBS, and you can make 1 more jump on a full tank and on a more direct path. But neither ship will win any speed races ....and really, that is OK. I just have to accept that my own playstyle of target-focused exploration is not a popular one. It's hardly as if like the game is broken and without a ship that can jump and scoop. There are plenty of other good options for doing in game "science."


I'm pretty sure I'll buy a DB Scout just for fun, because I do love a little ship, and it looks like a ton of fun to fly. I think I'll pass on the DBE though since it's too big and clumsy looking with a very low top speed. And it looks to be quite "Power Play unfriendly" if you're returning to the bubble with a ton of data, let alone playing in Open. It is a damned beautiful ship though. The art department deserves a huge kudos for the design.
 
I reprogram the ECU of my car in assembler, actually...

And that's relevant because... it means you can use a bigger engine and fuel tank while needing to use less fuel (not having to fill up as much). :rolleyes:

Look guys, there is no argument here, so please stop pretending that there is one.

I'm glad FD came out with the Diamondback Explorer just as I'm glad they came out with the Diamondback Scout.

I think both are cool ships, but that doesn't change the game's dynamics.
 
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TL;DR - It's a good ship, I'll be buying one flavor of it (probably the Scout), but it needs to be able to fill its own role to avoid comparison to the Cobra/Asp.

My issue is that the ship isn't being allowed to fill its own niche. The original version is kind of a Viper-Cobra hybrid. The Explorer version is kind of a ponderous Asp without the utility (but it has bigger guns!). Hopefully the flight model of the Explorer will get a little massage to at least bring it in line with the Asp, though I'm not sure if I should be hopeful or not at this point.

I guess the real question in my mind is what's wrong with a ship being a combat-explorer? Mike said that it was never really the intent for it to be an explorer, even though that was part of its description. Min-max explorers have their own set of requirements, as we've all seen in this thread. They would like having a fuel scoop a class larger than the FSD, as many existing ships are capable of. I think the bare minimum for them though is having a scoop that achieves at least parity with the FSD, as ALL ships (up until now) in the game have. A Diamondback of either flavor are the only ships currently in the game that don't have at least 1:1 FSD:Scoop class parity. I also have a feeling that they (and everyone else) would prefer to not have to put scanner modules into oversized slots, especially when that oversized slot could be better used for something else, like an AFMU. They also like jump range. The Diamondback does not fail in this regard, IMO. ~30ly capability in an explorer configuration is great, especially for a stock price of 600k.

So, the positives of the original Diamondback are that it's a fun, fast, agile ship that can pew pew slightly better than a Cobra, and jump at least as far in a similar configuration. The problem is that it can ONLY jump and pew pew. It has none of the versatility of the Cobra. It can't run 40t of rares 20ly per jump while still packing guns and a shield cell (http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=702,4yG4yG7N77N701Q0_g,2-6Q6u6Q5K5K5K6k,7Re07207203w03w7dg). Not only that, but the Cobra can pack guns, A-rated components, a shield, a scoop, an SCB, AFMU, and both scanners, and still go 20+ light years (http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=702,4yG4yG7N77N701Q0_g,2-6Q6Q6Q5K4s5K6k,7RA4_w7go0Iw2jw2UI). That's what I would define as a combat-explorer. So what's the point of the Diamondback again? It looks awesome, at least.

Now we have the Scout's bigger sister, and the same problems persist. The FSD got a boost in size, it got another module slot, AND it had two slots boosted up a class. Great! But first reports say it flies like a brick. Not so great. Maybe this aspect is still in the tweaking phase, hopefully. The most direct comparison now is to an Asp. We get a boost in firepower, but increased weight, reduced armor, and ever so slightly better base shield rating. We're still using oversized slots for scanners, but we can now take an AFMU or a shield cell. That's good. I think it's a valid decision for a pilot to have to make. Do I want something that can repair modules out in the black, or do I want to hopefully prevent those modules from taking damage in the first place if I'm being shot at? That requires some thinking and planning on the part of the Commander. Parity of the FSD and scoop still doesn't exist in this ship.

Instead of two ships, we really only needed to have the original version buffed a little bit. In terms of physical design, if the model needed to be changed to accommodate the modified internal layout, fine (I'd really love to see the behind-the-scenes in what FD uses to model the internal layout to determine number and class of modules, since it doesn't appear to be just an arbitrary thing). They've already done that with the bigger Explorer version (though, they went too big, imo). It could've gained some weight, maybe 10 or 20t because of the larger hull. The 128t (that's TWO Vipers!) we gain from going from the Scout to the Explorer feels excessive. Given an increase of 20-25% more than than the original, it should then be able to run ONE class size upgrade to a module, and allowed that C2 to become a pair of C1s. That's still five module slots (1x C4, 2x C3, 2x C1), but it allows the explorers to have their FSD:Scoop parity, or it allows the combat pilots to have a slightly buffed shield. Having two C1s instead of a single C2 allows both scanners, in properly sized slots, and doesn't force us to sacrifice a primary module slot. The sum of changes gives the ship a defined niche, without stepping on the toes of the Cobra and Asp when those ships aren't configured for combat/range. With these changes, the ship can jump, scan/map a system, and shoot at anything that takes offense to that. The tradeoff is it doesn't have the module versatility of its nearest competitors for cargo running. Boost the base price up to about a million and a half, and I think that it becomes an even trade.

I can dream, I suppose.
 
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Dont get me wrong here i really like this ship. Its in my opinion even better than the scout version. The problem I see with this is how the courier fits in there now?! The DBExplorer seems equaly priced but with way better jump range, more firepower, better hardpoint placement and bigger internals.

Whats the point of the courier now, just looking good and shiny?

I could be wrong here but It fells like the courier has become useless...
 
I'm not feeling the explorer, it's a cut rate Asp that offers no benefits over the Asp. The Asp has better fire power, better armour, better shields, it's faster and can carry more. The Asp can even get one more light year in jump range when stripper right down in explorer configuration.

Granted the Explorer is much cheaper, but almost all the cheap ships have a trick to distinguish them.
Viper - The king of speed.
Scout - Very Agile and Fast.
Cobra - Best all rounder, with a monster boost speed.
Courier - Excellent all round handling with big shields and good power overhead.

Explorer - Does everything slightly worse than everyone, slow, clumsy, poor cargo, weak shields. Good armour, good jump and okay armament - but the Asp is still better.

They need to shave 20T of the Hull Mass and give it an exceptional jump range, give it something to be proud off, not just a stepping stone to a Asp.

- - - Updated - - -

Dont get me wrong here i really like this ship. Its in my opinion even better than the scout version. The problem I see with this is how the courier fits in there now?! The DBExplorer seems equaly priced but with way better jump range, more firepower, better hardpoint placement and bigger internals.

Whats the point of the courier now, just looking good and shiny?

I could be wrong here but It fells like the courier has become useless...

The Courier is MUCH faster, and shields twice the strength. It's also not power constrained like the explorer.
 
Explorer - Does everything slightly worse than everyone, slow, clumsy, poor cargo, weak shields. Good armour, good jump and okay armament - but the Asp is still better.

They need to shave 20T of the Hull Mass and give it an exceptional jump range, give it something to be proud off, not just a stepping stone to a Asp.

Using the ship as a cargo hauler never even entered my mind. The T6 does a much better job at that and cost less.

The asp is roughly 4 mil more as a base price, and to outfit similarly for combat (A rated gear) is roughly 2 times more than the Diamondback Explorer (Asp runs into 40 mil territory). And if ED Shipyard is anything to go by, if they are equipped for either exploring or combat jump ranges are similar. If anything I would argue that as an explorer, it almost makes the Asp obsolete as it is a cheaper alternative and there isn't much reason to progress further ship-wise if exploring is your main thing. BTW, my setup on my Asp is currently at 22 or 23 mil. Setting up a DBE for solid exploring is in the neighborhood of 11 mil. If the DBE can go everywhere that the Asp can exploring, then what is the point in buying a ship that costs more?

The Asp was great when it was the only game in town that could go a little over 30ly and multiple jumps at a time with its 32t fuel tank. Now the DBE offers the same capability at a fraction of the cost. The main reason people in this section are knocking it is that it doesn't allow for a class 5 fuel scoop (to be on the same level as the FSD) and that using a class 4 takes slightly longer....

Between the Asp and the DBE, its definitely the Asp that needs the buff in weight reduction to give it a slight edge on the explorer front. A slight buff in the pitch of the DBE based on what I have read regarding the ship would be great, but if it got a weight reduction to give it a stand out quality for range under FSD I wouldn't be upset either. I just think that it would pretty much make the Asp pointless from an exploration perspective if the DBE can go everywhere the Asp can. FD could play with the buff for an Asp under the Galnet as Lakon doing some retrofit upgrade to customer ships or something like that.

Edit to add: The DBE already stands out at its price point for jump range. Everything below it, including the Cobra, has a shorter jump range.
 
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Using the ship as a cargo hauler never even entered my mind. The T6 does a much better job at that

Indeed. But did it ever occur to you that a T-6 also out performs the DBE at exploring? The T-6 jumps almost as far as the DBE, slots an oversized fuel scoop, can slot massive repair modules, and can boost to 406 to make sure your data gets home safely. And it costs half as much as the DBE. There's a lot to like. It also has superior visibility. The only thing a DBE can do better at exploring is heat management. That doesn't really come into play on the T-6 however because it can scoop so damn fast.

Until il we need to brings guns into the black a 1M CR T-6 will always be preferable to a 2M CR DBE. Except maybe for screen shots. And even then, the T-6 is a good looking ship as well.
 
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