Ships Introducing the Diamondback Explorer
- Thread starter Edward Lewis
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I am sorry, but in which way are the DB Explorer and Asp Explorer not explorers? Because they have the option to mount guns? Then the Viper is not a fighter: it could mount cargo racks and transport as much as 14t - that is comparable to a Hauler, a dedicated trader not much smaller than it. And according to your logic, there are no dedicated traders, because they can mount guns, too.
Also, what is wrong with a 30+Ly jump range? In which way does a 40Ly jump range suddenly transform a ship from "not a true explorer" into a "true explorer"? Not that I wouldn't welcome a decent, stylish (Gutamaya!) explorer with that kind of jump range, but I don't see how that is a sheer necessity. If the DB Explorer and Asp had a 40Ly jump range, you'd probably complain we had no ships with a 50+Ly jump range.
Finally, who says we aren't ever going to need weapons out there? What if we meet the Thargoids out there? What if we need combat equipped Asps and Diamondback Explorers and Scouts and Anacondas etc. eventually?
The reason to explore, is that you want to. Just like the reason to bounty hunt - if you want to. Not because the game tells you "you must do activity X for unique reward Y", as most MMOs do it. Look at where some explorers have been already. Exploration is very compelling already the way it is - why should the game artificially incentivise it any further? I am not saying it shouldn't also pay accordingly, of course, but that is true of any activity; you shouldn't do something just because it gives you 2x as many credits as the second-efficient activity.
Edit, epilogue: Maybe we should all sit back and relax a bit. I know I have been vehemently criticising the Courier initially, too; because I had different expectations about speed, agility, etc. But you know what, it does its job well, just not in the precise way I had anticipated. So I know how you people feel. You have a specific image in your mind what an explorer should be like, and FD did not fulfill that hope. But these ships are viable. They are decent. For 95% of all exploration purposes, it matters little whether you use a DB Scout, DB Explorer, or Asp; or, heck, an Imperial Clipper. The remaining 5% are split into 4% exploring where the stars thin out and every Ly jump range count, and thus the Conda > Asp > all, and 1% are things like Buckyball A* where raw interstellar speed is the only thing that matters.
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It's an interesting point.
If you make a ship capable of accepting an "oversize" fuel scoop, then it can fit "oversize" shields for OTT defence, or "oversize" cargo bays for OTT trade earnings.
If you make such a ship a dedicated explorer by making it completely unarmed, then it'll get used with oversized shields as a rare-trade-circuit specialist pirate dodger. It'll get used with the oversize cargo bay as a trade earnings multiplier in a relatively safe trade run.
I guess you could make a dedicated explorer by hardwiring in a fuel scoop - no option to remove - and cutting up the bays into teensy Class 1/2 bits.
These % are completely made up. Do you actually explore?
I agree with the larger point of your post. However, a class 5 scoop for a class 5 FSD is not "oversized" it's "normal." Same for 4 and 4, and 3 and 3. Asp and anaconda have "oversized" scoops. But then, that is why they are kings.
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First, an explorer ship has nothing to do with fuel scoop, jump range and so on, it has to do with being equipped with correct scanners or not.
Any ship equipped with correct scanners which are used to scan diverse celestial objects is a exploration ship.
Second, could you please give me any actual aircraft or ship model which is a dedicated mass produced exploration aircraft or ship ?
Exploration vessel are most of the time adaptation of commercial vessels (so exploration T6 is one of the most realistic vessel).
Third, any ship should have disadvantages. Any.
It should never be possible to have "the perfect ship".
Yeah, I think the number of Buckyball A* speed-runners is likely far lower than 1% of explorers.
But fast travel is not only useful for buckyball runners. I don't know how _you_ explore, but _I_ often fast-travel to a particular region in the galaxy when I explore. Because it is of special interest to me. Am I doing it wrong? Are you going to arrest me? Absent detailed demographic/polling data, these % numbers are completely fabricated.
That is "94.3% of all statistics is made up on the spot."
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I still think that at some time in the near future bad things could happen to explorers out there. Flying around with shields and weapons might be a good idea. That UA stuff makes me nervous. The Diamondback Explorer might be a good option. It might take (a little) longer to reach something, but it has a chance to come back.
If you are unable to adapt to ships limitations, yep, you are doing it wrong.
You seriously seem to be implying that other explorers are, from your previous posts.
If fast travelling is a concern to you, stick to the Asp or Anaconda; the Diamondback Explorer is not for you, but for more scanning oriented or budget explorers perhaps. It doesn't mean the the fuel scoop is undersized though, even if it doesn't work for your purposes.
That's like telling a trader that they are doing it wrong by not adapting to the FDL limitation of not being able to carry any appreciable cargo for its price point. That's blaming the victim. It's the ship that's bad for the job, the trader is doing it right.
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I genuinely wouldn't be averse to that. I spend more than 18 seconds refuelling my car. It takes me an hour to reach my place of work in the same city I live in. Making the galaxy a milk-run cheapens it. Granted game != life, but taking that too far diminishes the sense of scale.
I think puca is often in the position of having to defend the reasoning behind why certain attributes of ships make them more or less suitable for exploration than others. Having to repeat himself frequently with others sometimes not seeming to understand his legitimate (in my understanding) rationale can understandably be rather frustrating.
I have read and participated in many of these Diamondback related threads, and I don't think he is at all trying to imply that anyone is going about exploring incorrectly.
Having a sufficiently capable fuel scoop is one of a handful of factors that determine a ship's overall exploration potential and prowess. This factor may be more or less relevant for different people and their specific exploration styles, though it does play an active role in all of them to at least some extent, as I highly doubt that there are any explorers that choose to hang out in the corona of every star they jump to in every system, such as those that are already know to be cataloged, when moving through different areas of the galaxy, including in and out of the "bubble" of charted space.
Anyone can explore in any ship, just as anyone can trade in any ship and fight in any ship, and while people often willingly choose ships that might not be as best suited to those specific roles overall for various reasons as others, that of course doesn't mean that certain attributes of ships and the combination of those attributes don't make them more capable of filling basic progression types than others.
The confusion and frustration from some of us regarding ship capabilities seemingly not lining up with their generally apparent role types when other ships that are less costly and/or excel at other roles as well are overall more capable at roles that other ships are apparently intended for is what prompts us to want to bring these discrepancies to other people's attention in hopes that they can be resolved, or at least acknowledged. It isn't that we are ungrateful for what we have nor that we don't like the new content and ships that FD is adding into the game; it's that we're strategists that got our hopes up for ships that were described (at least somewhat) as comparatively excelling at certain roles that we were looking forward to utilizing. What we got however where ships that don't quite make the cut for those roles, even when compared to similarly or sometimes even less costly ships that again, aren't even specialized for those roles.
Sorry if this post is long winded and hard to follow. I haven't gotten any sleep since I watched and took care of an injured friend last night that can't move around on his own, so conveying my thoughts in easier to understand ways is more difficult for me now than normal.
I have read and participated in many of these Diamondback related threads, and I don't think he is at all trying to imply that anyone is going about exploring incorrectly.
Having a sufficiently capable fuel scoop is one of a handful of factors that determine a ship's overall exploration potential and prowess. This factor may be more or less relevant for different people and their specific exploration styles, though it does play an active role in all of them to at least some extent, as I highly doubt that there are any explorers that choose to hang out in the corona of every star they jump to in every system, such as those that are already know to be cataloged, when moving through different areas of the galaxy, including in and out of the "bubble" of charted space.
Anyone can explore in any ship, just as anyone can trade in any ship and fight in any ship, and while people often willingly choose ships that might not be as best suited to those specific roles overall for various reasons as others, that of course doesn't mean that certain attributes of ships and the combination of those attributes don't make them more capable of filling basic progression types than others.
The confusion and frustration from some of us regarding ship capabilities seemingly not lining up with their generally apparent role types when other ships that are less costly and/or excel at other roles as well are overall more capable at roles that other ships are apparently intended for is what prompts us to want to bring these discrepancies to other people's attention in hopes that they can be resolved, or at least acknowledged. It isn't that we are ungrateful for what we have nor that we don't like the new content and ships that FD is adding into the game; it's that we're strategists that got our hopes up for ships that were described (at least somewhat) as comparatively excelling at certain roles that we were looking forward to utilizing. What we got however where ships that don't quite make the cut for those roles, even when compared to similarly or sometimes even less costly ships that again, aren't even specialized for those roles.
Sorry if this post is long winded and hard to follow. I haven't gotten any sleep since I watched and took care of an injured friend last night that can't move around on his own, so conveying my thoughts in easier to understand ways is more difficult for me now than normal.
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After thinking about the Diamondback Explorer a bit, I came to the realization that the ship does two things really well:
1. Being a combat-explorer. Even fully armed, you can easily go over 30 ly / jump. Which is more then any other combat-ship can do.
2. Being a stepping-stone to an Asp. With the Adder, the Diamondback Scout and now the D. Explorer, we have a clear line of ships up to the Asp.
So it is a good ship, just not a Asp 2.0. For a better Asp, I guess we still have to wait for Frontier to add a high-tier explorer at some point. We're still missing at least one high-end ship in the explorer-line up. If you compare to the combat and trader-lines of ships, the explorers are still kind of the ugly duckling of the bunch. Essentially as soon as you hit the Asp, it's Asp or get out until you have the money for an Anaconda.
1. Being a combat-explorer. Even fully armed, you can easily go over 30 ly / jump. Which is more then any other combat-ship can do.
2. Being a stepping-stone to an Asp. With the Adder, the Diamondback Scout and now the D. Explorer, we have a clear line of ships up to the Asp.
So it is a good ship, just not a Asp 2.0. For a better Asp, I guess we still have to wait for Frontier to add a high-tier explorer at some point. We're still missing at least one high-end ship in the explorer-line up. If you compare to the combat and trader-lines of ships, the explorers are still kind of the ugly duckling of the bunch. Essentially as soon as you hit the Asp, it's Asp or get out until you have the money for an Anaconda.
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That's a good point. I do look forward to finding useful niche roles for these Diamondback ships, regardless of them not quite meeting my exploration related hopes.
I really like the look and feel of the Diamondback Scout especially.
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You really missed the point. Time and speed cumulatively lost over distance is puca's entire position. The T6 has a shorter jump range and and a smaller tank. When compared to the DBE or Asp, it will lose more time over distance comparatively as they can travel further and have the extra gas in the tank in case a patch of non scoopable is run across to try and save the ship.
This is a somewhat more specific scenario, though I agree that it is still fairly common and that large fuel tanks and FSD ranges are of course good attributes of exploration ships as well.
I think what may be somewhat lacking still though regarding the Diamondbacks' exploration potentials is more of a balance between the various attributes that make for a good exploration ship, while some other ships seem to have an advantage in this regard.
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In your scenario, the trader would be a victim of him/herself for not selecting a tool that can adequately do the job they are looking for. So the blame rests squarely on the trader in your scenario.
The questions you should be asking are what does the Asp offer that the DBE doesn't, or if the a DBE seemingly go the same places the Asp can then why buy an Asp? The obvious answers are larger fuel scoop, more shields/armor, and more guns on the platform if they are ever needed. But for some, I'd bet that the incentive to buy an Asp has diminished somewhat.
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What bothers me, however, is that we don't actually need new explorers at all right now. We have cheap Hauler at entry level. Then there is Cobra which is pretty damn good ship for exploration, as well as T6. Then there is an Asp, and finally jump king Anaconda. While exploration comes down to scanning celestial bodies and nothing else, currently available ships are having it pretty well covered.