Is Elite Dangerous a simulator to you?
- Thread starter rootsrat
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Deleted member 110222
D
It's a video game.
That's it. Nothing more.
It's no more a "simulator" as Ace Combat is an authentic flight simulation. That is to say, it isn't.
That's it. Nothing more.
It's no more a "simulator" as Ace Combat is an authentic flight simulation. That is to say, it isn't.
You can have fire in space, sounds too in some cases (putting your ear on the hull of a ship for example)
I have a HOTAS and VR (which REALLY helps with the immersion). The way I allow for the sounds in Space (when there isn't any, due to the lack of air) is that the various ship manufacturers have agreed a system whereby the detection systems on the ships (such as RADAR) then translate their output into information we mere humans can easily make sense of, including sound. This means that, rather than having to look at ship identification systems, you can tell that the ship approaching from behind and to your left is an Asp Explorer at speed, and not just a blip on the sensors.
Personally I'd call it a sim and I know the Guard Frequency (tagline "the best damn space sim podcast ever") definitely consider it a sim (and are frequently torn on whether to include NMS in their podcast), but I wonder what the definition should be? One way you could define it is to say that if it takes some practice simply to learn how to fly (i.e. take off, fly somewhere and land) then you can probably call it a sim.
I don't know about it being a simulator, but there are enough layers of gameplay to be entertaining (IMO) with the added bonus of 'flying' a bunch of 'spaceships' that behave sufficiently differently to make them fun.
But what do I know? I just play a game that does what it should do, entertain me.
But what do I know? I just play a game that does what it should do, entertain me.
People mention the flight model and physics without distinguishing between the two. The game simulates basics rigid body dynamics and Newtonian physics pretty well. However it has constraints overlayed on the flight model that apply inexplicable forces to keep ships and some other objects within those constrains, and some other objects are wholly static. However, we can still see the underlying Newtonian physics model if we keep within/work around limits, or during interactions with the few objects they don't apply to. For example, you can actually orbit, in freefall, worlds with sufficiently low gravity for the orbital velocity to not exceed the maximum stable FA-off speed of a ship. So yeah, it started with an actual physics simulation, then bolted on restrictions (which have generally become more and more severe over time) to come up with the heavily constrained flight model we see now.
Sounds in space? Those are explained as being simulated themselves, for the benefit's of situational awareness for our CMDRs, and while a bit of handwavium is involved (we hear things our sensors cannot perceive or extrapolate), it's a perfectly rational idea...no reason to leave available sensory inputs under utilized.
Anyway, trying to shoehorn titles into any single genre, or categorically exclude them, often doesn't do justice to the gameplay they provide, or don't. I'm not aware of any formal cut-off on what a simulator (as the game genre) must be simulating or exactly how much detail it must try to simulate.
Ideally, I want an alternately realistic, fantastic, sim experience.
Sounds in space? Those are explained as being simulated themselves, for the benefit's of situational awareness for our CMDRs, and while a bit of handwavium is involved (we hear things our sensors cannot perceive or extrapolate), it's a perfectly rational idea...no reason to leave available sensory inputs under utilized.
Anyway, trying to shoehorn titles into any single genre, or categorically exclude them, often doesn't do justice to the gameplay they provide, or don't. I'm not aware of any formal cut-off on what a simulator (as the game genre) must be simulating or exactly how much detail it must try to simulate.
Ideally, I want an alternately realistic, fantastic, sim experience.
Deleted member 110222
D
So do I. It's still a mere video game.
I tried that in a bathtub with Silent Hunter III, after my U-Boat was sank by ze verdammt Engländer.
You must be joking, how the hell ED can be a sim, if you even cannot vary engines thrust outputOh lol, simulator...
Doesn't the throttle vary engine thrust?
Imo your topic is more "what define clearly a simulation?"
If a simulation is just reproducing real world rules then clearly it is not.
If simulation is reproducing created world rules then it is.
That's where elite is to me , between these to , it's like a fantasy book : taking element from our world , and adapting/adding some others . So it is a simulation in his own world but not from our's.
Elite world have some rule and consistency among it but it is not as complicated as our world.
Problem is, if you consider that simulation can be simulation from crafted world rules , well, many games become simulation.
So my real feeling about what a simulation is : the level of complexity (to reach our complex world rules). If a game have complexes rules where not everything is automated , it slowly become a simulation.
Elite simulation greatest part is , space interaction , and flying ships , with newtonian model. (well except ramming)
But how the world works , mission , guns , NPC , even engineers , are not a simulation, even supercruise is out of it.
In conclusion to me elite is a simulation when it comes to flying ships and how they handle in space (not perfect , but complex enough). And they put this simulation in a created universe that have his own rules.
And tbh that make a great game.
If a simulation is just reproducing real world rules then clearly it is not.
If simulation is reproducing created world rules then it is.
That's where elite is to me , between these to , it's like a fantasy book : taking element from our world , and adapting/adding some others . So it is a simulation in his own world but not from our's.
Elite world have some rule and consistency among it but it is not as complicated as our world.
Problem is, if you consider that simulation can be simulation from crafted world rules , well, many games become simulation.
So my real feeling about what a simulation is : the level of complexity (to reach our complex world rules). If a game have complexes rules where not everything is automated , it slowly become a simulation.
Elite simulation greatest part is , space interaction , and flying ships , with newtonian model. (well except ramming)
But how the world works , mission , guns , NPC , even engineers , are not a simulation, even supercruise is out of it.
In conclusion to me elite is a simulation when it comes to flying ships and how they handle in space (not perfect , but complex enough). And they put this simulation in a created universe that have his own rules.
And tbh that make a great game.
So is any simulator used for entertainment purposes, no matter how complex or accurate it is.
I can prove that the throttle varies acceleration in Elite: Dangerous.
Turn FA off over a world with some significant degree of gravity. Note the throttle setting required to match gravitational acceleration and maintain the same altitude.
Deleted member 38366
D
Hmmm...
It used to be a Simulator to me when I was still new to the Game.
But after "looking under the hood" and realizing it wasn't a Sandbox and how the primitive Scripts trying to emulate the fake Sandbox worked (i.e. our fake, rubber-band pseudo-Economy with the so-called NPC Trading that never existed), it all quickly fell apart within months.
Ever since and increasingly so, I see it primarily an Arcade Game in a wanna-be/make-believe Simulator dressing.
In some areas it's still a bit Sim-like but in most areas it's plain Arcade.
(in my books, Exploration - despite all the tight limitations/quirks of Stellar Forge and limited content - still comes as close as it gets in ELITE in terms of being a Simulation)
It used to be a Simulator to me when I was still new to the Game.
But after "looking under the hood" and realizing it wasn't a Sandbox and how the primitive Scripts trying to emulate the fake Sandbox worked (i.e. our fake, rubber-band pseudo-Economy with the so-called NPC Trading that never existed), it all quickly fell apart within months.
Ever since and increasingly so, I see it primarily an Arcade Game in a wanna-be/make-believe Simulator dressing.
In some areas it's still a bit Sim-like but in most areas it's plain Arcade.
(in my books, Exploration - despite all the tight limitations/quirks of Stellar Forge and limited content - still comes as close as it gets in ELITE in terms of being a Simulation)
go try Elite 2, then return and tell us how you feel.