Is gaining INFLUENCE of any use to players who don't care to muck about with the BGS?

Almost correct. The two things that would continue to happen are Famine and Outbreak.

FD confirmed a while back that they put in a "Natural increase" in the occurrance of Famine and Outbreak that is (typically) countered fairly easily by player activity... but with no interaction, factions will eventually hit a famine/outbreak state.

This was because famine/outbreak were (literally) not happening anywhere in the galaxy for a while.
I appreciate the update. Accurate BGS info appears to be... Somewhat elusive.

OP, in short; Influence does nothing for you unless you wish to change some labels or colours on the galmap.

I'm sure the changes are much more complex than that but other than peering under the hood, playing the BGS really doesn't change more than that which is... Unfortunate for those who want to, especially considering how dedicated and clever they are about it. That said, I posit a related question; with the natural increment towards famine/outbreak, would the galaxy sans any player interaction at all eventually deteriorate into a humanity-wide famine/outbreak? Or are there natural corrective ticks within the system? It seems like a ticking time-bomb otherwise.
 
. In fact 'mucking' about BGS isn't really a feature, it is certainly not seen as something you should easily do (that's why C&P changes covered lot of BGS).
I would disagree, the fact that the first year of development Michael Brookes engaged so much with the BGS interested playerbase it would argue that the BGS became a feature. Significant development time went into it. There is now a BGS game with certain rules and largely predictable outcomes. There is however a complex interaction of those relatively simple rules to create complex results, especially when random traffic is factored in. There are tactics, there is strategy there are are long laid plans and emergent activity.

3.0 did little for the BGS other that broaden mission destination influence effects and attempt to limit the murdering of sys authority ships which was easy mode for a number of iterations.
 
I appreciate the update. Accurate BGS info appears to be... Somewhat elusive.

OP, in short; Influence does nothing for you unless you wish to change some labels or colours on the galmap.

I'm sure the changes are much more complex than that but other than peering under the hood, playing the BGS really doesn't change more than that which is... Unfortunate for those who want to, especially considering how dedicated and clever they are about it. That said, I posit a related question; with the natural increment towards famine/outbreak, would the galaxy sans any player interaction at all eventually deteriorate into a humanity-wide famine/outbreak? Or are there natural corrective ticks within the system? It seems like a ticking time-bomb otherwise.
Its a slow emptying of the famine/outbreak "buckets" easily overcome by pretty much any player action. But yes without player intervention the galaxy would descend into repeating famines/outbreaks across pretty much every faction in every system.
 
I would disagree, the fact that the first year of development Michael Brookes engaged so much with the BGS interested playerbase it would argue that the BGS became a feature. Significant development time went into it. There is now a BGS game with certain rules and largely predictable outcomes. There is however a complex interaction of those relatively simple rules to create complex results, especially when random traffic is factored in. There are tactics, there is strategy there are are long laid plans and emergent activity.

3.0 did little for the BGS other that broaden mission destination influence effects and attempt to limit the murdering of sys authority ships which was easy mode for a number of iterations.
Fact BGS is there does not mean FD really see it as some sort of emergent gameplay layer. Yes, player can affect that, but there's certain secrecy around it so outcome is not 100% guaranteed.

3.0 did considerable changes regarding BGS effects via combat.
 
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I would disagree, the fact that the first year of development Michael Brookes engaged so much with the BGS interested playerbase it would argue that the BGS became a feature. Significant development time went into it. There is now a BGS game with certain rules and largely predictable outcomes. There is however a complex interaction of those relatively simple rules to create complex results, especially when random traffic is factored in. There are tactics, there is strategy there are are long laid plans and emergent activity.

3.0 did little for the BGS other that broaden mission destination influence effects and attempt to limit the murdering of sys authority ships which was easy mode for a number of iterations.
It is kinda the deeper gameplay and while there is no real rewards in OPness like with engineers I'd take that sense of collaborative pride and accomplishment from BGS working any day over the stupid and ridiculous buffs those engineers have.
 
That said, I posit a related question; with the natural increment towards famine/outbreak, would the galaxy sans any player interaction at all eventually deteriorate into a humanity-wide famine/outbreak? Or are there natural corrective ticks within the system? It seems like a ticking time-bomb otherwise.
Famine and Outbreak both have maximum durations even if nothing was done and once completed they would need to slowly reaccumulate. Since they can't occur at the same time and are of the same priority, you might well end in a state where about half was in Famine, about half was in Outbreak, and a small fraction was temporarily clear while switching between them.

All entirely theoretical, of course - the activity required to prevent it is extremely low - it's just that there are plenty of inhabited systems in the game which literally have no player traffic for weeks because of how big the galaxy is. Possibly in the event of a very significant rise or fall in active player numbers, Frontier might increase or decrease the accrual rate to compensate.
 
Fact BGS is there does not mean FD really see it as some sort of emergent gameplay layer. Yes, player can affect that, but there's certain secrecy around it so outcome is not 100% guaranteed.
A strict definition of an emergent system includes that the behaviour of the system (including the players without whom, as we've seen, the galaxy would settle into a famine/outbreak ground state) is not predictable from the components of the system. By that token, it doesn't matter whether or not FD intended for players to play the BGS as some kind of emergent game - they do anyway. And the fact that the players don't have all the information handed to them in a manual matters not in the least. Knowing what's what is the differentiator among PMFs that work their minor factions.
3.0 did considerable changes regarding BGS effects via combat.
Care to list them?
 
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Influence is a stir in background sim, and it happens like it or not. In fact 'mucking' about BGS isn't really a feature, it is certainly not seen as something you should easily do (that's why C&P changes covered lot of BGS).
FD appear to disagree.




As far as C&P, I'm finding no changes to the BGS related to C&P. Everything still works as it did before.
 
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FD appear to disagree.
Forum is managed by mods who aren't exactly paid for or managed by FD. Also I said 'not really a feature'. It is not something user can exercise executive control over.

As far as C&P, I'm finding no changes to the BGS related to C&P. Everything still works as it did before.
Sweeping changes regarding crimes against NPCs....sure, you can claim it doesn't change anything, but judging by many threads, it does.
 
Forum is managed by mods who aren't exactly paid for or managed by FD. Also I said 'not really a feature'. It is not something user can exercise executive control over.
Brett C is an employee of FD. Not a volunteer mod.

Sweeping changes regarding crimes against NPCs....sure, you can claim it doesn't change anything, but judging by many threads, it does.
Not a thing has changed as far as the workings of the BGS. Some gameplay has changed, but not the BGS.

You know, you don't need to post about everything that gets mentioned on the forums. Especially when you have no first clue about what you're talking about.
 
Not a thing has changed as far as the workings of the BGS. Some gameplay has changed, but not the BGS.

You know, you don't need to post about everything that gets mentioned on the forums. Especially when you have no first clue about what you're talking about.
C&P affects BGS *hugely* - mass murders of NPCs? Not really that easy anymore. Lot of wet work missions now comes with strings attached. RES sites? Ditto.

Some gameplay? Major part of it, especially how players have affected BGS so far. FD work on 3.0 is basically aimed at decreasing effect combat has on BGS changes.

Also yes, Bret is employee, but FD has openly said several times it is - just as recently as 3.0 livestreams - BGS isn't something really you affect directly. You don't play BGS as per se - although many people try to position themselves as they do.
 
C&P affects BGS *hugely* - mass murders of NPCs? Not really that easy anymore. Lot of wet work missions now comes with strings attached. RES sites? Ditto.

Some gameplay? Major part of it, especially how players have affected BGS so far. FD work on 3.0 is basically aimed at decreasing effect combat has on BGS changes.

Also yes, Bret is employee, but FD has openly said several times it is - just as recently as 3.0 livestreams - BGS isn't something really you affect directly. You don't play BGS as per se - although many people try to position themselves as they do.
To be honest, couldn't be any further from fact. I dropped a faction from 22% down to 1% with nothing but aggressive and criminal activity in a single day. Next day I was clean. It really hasn't changed anything about the BGS if you know what and how to do it. Mission targets also don't attract any form of notoriety (not a bug either).
 
OP, in short; Influence does nothing for you unless you wish to change some labels or colours on the galmap.
Haha, good way to put it...

I posit a related question; with the natural increment towards famine/outbreak, would the galaxy sans any player interaction at all eventually deteriorate into a humanity-wide famine/outbreak? Or are there natural corrective ticks within the system? It seems like a ticking time-bomb otherwise.
The Thargoids would be stoked, if that happened....
 
I will need evidence for that :)
What proof do you want? Stats I recorded? If you don't take my word for it, you won't believe a bunch of excel spreadsheets. So lets go with rubbish, inaccurate inara, as it relies on user-updates and I happened to be working a fairly easy system.


See that orange line starting at 0% and peaking around 60% in Feb? That's me taking control of the system from scratch from the blue line.
The sudden drop between March 5th and March 10th, after some research, turns out to be because it's a common rank-farming system, and I happened to smash the faction people were rank farming with (thus, the blue line increases to match at that time)

The 22% drop occurs in between the down-slope from 25th March to 30th March. Cue rubbish inaccurate inara, because when it doesn't receive data for several days, it'll just interpolate it's information points; no data exists for the period between 25th to 30th March on Inara. The only "proof" i've got is the update I put to my group about the action which occurred 28th March.



3.0 gives negative inf effects to (some) mission targets, so 12 missions targeting the one faction in the one system will smash them hard.
 
C&P affects BGS *hugely* - mass murders of NPCs? Not really that easy anymore. Lot of wet work missions now comes with strings attached. RES sites? Ditto.

Some gameplay? Major part of it, especially how players have affected BGS so far. FD work on 3.0 is basically aimed at decreasing effect combat has on BGS changes.

Also yes, Bret is employee, but FD has openly said several times it is - just as recently as 3.0 livestreams - BGS isn't something really you affect directly. You don't play BGS as per se - although many people try to position themselves as they do.
Nope. C&P had made zero changes to the way the BGS works. Killing clean ships and sys authority is different from a player's view, but not really hard. The mechanics of it are identical to pre 3.0.

As far as CMDRs not playing the BGS, ONLY CMDRs can affect the BGS, so we all play it. Whether we admit it or not.

If a CMDR couldn't play the BGS, you're saying that I didn't cause this?



Influence was completely flat until I entered the system. I took the lowest faction to expansion and then lowered its influence to prevent further expansions. You're saying this was random?
 
Thank you, Jmanis and MottiKhan, for basically saving me the trouble of writing my own reply.

With that said, Eagleboy seems to think that killing SysAuth is effective. It is, after a fashion, but not against any of the groups who have the slightest clue about what they're doing.

Anyway, it is often claimed that "it's not a bug; it's a feature." Does this mean that Eagle boy believes the BGS is a bug? He doesn't seem to think it's a feature...
 
Anyway, it is often claimed that "it's not a bug; it's a feature." Does this mean that Eagle boy believes the BGS is a bug? He doesn't seem to think it's a feature...
It is a feature to measure indirect influence commanders have on factions with their decisions and actions. That's all I think about it.
 
What proof do you want? Stats I recorded? If you don't take my word for it, you won't believe a bunch of excel spreadsheets. So lets go with rubbish, inaccurate inara, as it relies on user-updates and I happened to be working a fairly easy system.

https://i.imgur.com/d9r3nA5.png
See that orange line starting at 0% and peaking around 60% in Feb? That's me taking control of the system from scratch from the blue line.
The sudden drop between March 5th and March 10th, after some research, turns out to be because it's a common rank-farming system, and I happened to smash the faction people were rank farming with (thus, the blue line increases to match at that time)

The 22% drop occurs in between the down-slope from 25th March to 30th March. Cue rubbish inaccurate inara, because when it doesn't receive data for several days, it'll just interpolate it's information points; no data exists for the period between 25th to 30th March on Inara. The only "proof" i've got is the update I put to my group about the action which occurred 28th March.

https://i.imgur.com/wdxxGkW.png

3.0 gives negative inf effects to (some) mission targets, so 12 missions targeting the one faction in the one system will smash them hard.
I love that BGS results in players releasing redacted internal memos. That alone makes me think it is a great game mechanic.

I recently found an edge of the bubble Large pad to Large pad delivery mission honey pot. Think I'll dive in and start working on changing things there now.
 
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