Is it finally time to get rid of supercruise?

Apex Taxis have really underlined the issues with traveltimes in this game, highlighted rather nicely by ObsidianAnt's latest video. Supercruise travel-times between places are significantly high, even at short-range. I didn't realise the scale of the issue until the times were presented.

There are a couple of possible solutions.

1. Increase ship acceleration & decelleration
This would be for all vessels. Tie it to module quality etc if you need to. Or add in some form of interactive gameplay that allows for players to move faster.

2. Remove supercruise
I've heard it repeated often here and on reddit that in the very early days of Elite Dangerous, there wasn't going to be supercruise. We'd be able to jump directly between the bodies and signal sources.

3. Allow jumping between bodies
Or at the least in-system stars. This iswas my favourite.
Once we're in a system, give us the opportunity to do supercruise-to-supercruise jumping between celestial bodies.
We keep opportunities for interdiction gameplay.
We keep opportunities for seeing where players and NPCs are before jumping
We don't exclude traveling for mission signal sources, persisting PoIs, and carriers.
We get the best of both worlds.

EDIT:
4. Engaging supercruising experience

You know how we've got the interdiction experience? And riding the waves of a jet-cone boost?
Making currents / routes through space that a skillful pilot can use to go faster than a straight line is my new favourite.

It lets idle players just point their ship and AFK watching netflix and reading Reddit if they prefer - but it rewards active piloting with faster speeds.
Highly recommend this choice.

END EDIT

If you think there's an opportunity to improve the game with one of these options, please share what you would prefer, and why.
Comment in the gameplay feedback thread too.
And if you think things are fine as they are, and the arguments above don't sway you - I am more than curious to hear what value / enjoyment you get out of the long SC journeys :)
Agreed, it's almost unplayable and it won't even keep my kids interest, they moved on...
 
Apex Taxis have really underlined the issues with traveltimes in this game, highlighted rather nicely by ObsidianAnt's latest video. Supercruise travel-times between places are significantly high, even at short-range. I didn't realise the scale of the issue until the times were presented.

There are a couple of possible solutions.

1. Increase ship acceleration & decelleration
This would be for all vessels. Tie it to module quality etc if you need to. Or add in some form of interactive gameplay that allows for players to move faster.

2. Remove supercruise
I've heard it repeated often here and on reddit that in the very early days of Elite Dangerous, there wasn't going to be supercruise. We'd be able to jump directly between the bodies and signal sources.

3. Allow jumping between bodies
Or at the least in-system stars. This iswas my favourite.
Once we're in a system, give us the opportunity to do supercruise-to-supercruise jumping between celestial bodies.
We keep opportunities for interdiction gameplay.
We keep opportunities for seeing where players and NPCs are before jumping
We don't exclude traveling for mission signal sources, persisting PoIs, and carriers.
We get the best of both worlds.

EDIT:
4. Engaging supercruising experience

You know how we've got the interdiction experience? And riding the waves of a jet-cone boost?
Making currents / routes through space that a skillful pilot can use to go faster than a straight line is my new favourite.

It lets idle players just point their ship and AFK watching netflix and reading Reddit if they prefer - but it rewards active piloting with faster speeds.
Highly recommend this choice.

END EDIT

If you think there's an opportunity to improve the game with one of these options, please share what you would prefer, and why.
Comment in the gameplay feedback thread too.
And if you think things are fine as they are, and the arguments above don't sway you - I am more than curious to hear what value / enjoyment you get out of the long SC journeys :)
I would like to have increased acceleration and deceleration and introduce micro jumps between stars of the same system. These just make too much sense..
 
So are the prehistoric bugs, should we stop bringing those up too and just accept them? This is clearly still an issue for the player base, so it is still a relevant topic.



Bye then! 👋

So if it is OLD it’s scould be not discussed anymore?
what I see with this continuously popping up topics about super cruise is that.... there is still amount of players not happy with the SC and how it is implemented.

oh and please not before you jump on me about it.... I have no opinion about it SC and it’s current state.

The topic might be relevant, but none of these threads ever do much at all (if anything...) to address the reasons FDEV have given for NOT changing it. If you're interested in changing their mind you should probably look into why things are the way they are and address that.
 
I think it just needs to be faster. Gliding past planets in supercruise is pretty cool, and I like being able to freely move in system in that way. The problem is just too much wasted time on the dead space between locations. Make the acceleration curve steeper and the top speed higher.
 
I think it just needs to be faster. Gliding past planets in supercruise is pretty cool, and I like being able to freely move in system in that way. The problem is just too much wasted time on the dead space between locations. Make the acceleration curve steeper and the top speed higher.
I don't think you understand what you're asking for. If they made those changes exactly as you're asking for them, targeting these tiny objects in space would be extremely hard. And if they made other changes to increase your targeting and flight ability, it would quickly stop feeling like a spaceship and more like a camera in a Universe Sandbox type sim
 
The topic might be relevant, but none of these threads ever do much at all (if anything...) to address the reasons FDEV have given for NOT changing it. If you're interested in changing their mind you should probably look into why things are the way they are and address that.

Do you mean 'lore, physics, and potential longevity of the game' reasons given last week, or have there been other utterances on the record about the SC design? Pardon me for not having kept up, I've been locked in the cargo hold for a couple of years.
 
The topic might be relevant, but none of these threads ever do much at all (if anything...) to address the reasons FDEV have given for NOT changing it. If you're interested in changing their mind you should probably look into why things are the way they are and address that.

Yeah, I'm gonna wait on FD to communicate with us. Sounds like a plan that can be relied on!
 
I don't think you understand what you're asking for. If they made those changes exactly as you're asking for them, targeting these tiny objects in space would be extremely hard. And if they made other changes to increase your targeting and flight ability, it would quickly stop feeling like a spaceship and more like a camera in a Universe Sandbox type sim
What are you talking about? The game is already like that.
Acceleration curve already changes with respect to nearby planetary bodies. That aspect of the game is already well managed, you just have to make the empty travel time between things shorter. The speed of the ships is already completely arbitrary so I think you're the one who's failed to understand what I'm trying to bring across. Up the max speed, make the acceleration curve steeper. It's really that simple.
 
Removing supercruise would kill the game. There would be no risk of piracy at all, no sense of the vastness of space, no real exploration. The micro jump thing also just breaks the lore, the FSD's are not capable of that.
FSDs arent capable of that. Well, but: GALNET NEWS "[COMPANY NAME] reserved patents for a new propulsion system for space vessels. The new engine, what they call "FSD V2", is able to maintain stable micro hyperjumps in-system... etc..."

There you go, injected into the lore. You just need a little bit of creativity.
 
What are you talking about? The game is already like that.
Acceleration curve already changes with respect to nearby planetary bodies. That aspect of the game is already well managed, you just have to make the empty travel time between things shorter. The speed of the ships is already completely arbitrary so I think you're the one who's failed to understand what I'm trying to bring across. Up the max speed, make the acceleration curve steeper. It's really that simple.
It's not that simple. If you up the acceleration in the model used, you have to up the deceleration time too, which means that your ship is less affected by nearby gravity in general, meaning your ship isn't going to slow down automatically as much, as you travel further within a body's sphere of influence. Your directional control is unassisted on approach, so without gravity to slow you down, you're going to overshoot your targets way more often
 
FSDs arent capable of that. Well, but: GALNET NEWS "[COMPANY NAME] reserved patents for a new propulsion system for space vessels. The new engine, what they call "FSD V2", is able to maintain stable micro hyperjumps in-system... etc..."

There you go, injected into the lore. You just need a little bit of creativity.

GALNET NEWS "[COMPANY NAME] has been found to be acting fraudulently. The new engine, which they call "FSD V2", is in fact not able to maintain stable micro hyperjumps in-system... etc..."

I can make up Lore too!

It's not Lore unless it comes from the Devs. And the Devs don't seem to want to get rid of SC. 🤷‍♂️
 
GALNET NEWS "[COMPANY NAME] has been found to be acting fraudulently. The new engine, which they call "FSD V2", is in fact not able to maintain stable micro hyperjumps in-system... etc..."

I can make up Lore too!

It's not Lore unless it comes from the Devs. And the Devs don't seem to want to get rid of SC. 🤷‍♂️
It is their thing. I don't say they should get rid of SC, all I am saying that lores can be written however one likes.

I think that SC is problem for many, only because theres not much things to do in one place. Imagine having many mission options or other activities in one orbit, or on one planet, or atleast in the same orbit with a multi-mooned gas giant. After playing for hours at one place, turning up to the sky/stars you could have the real "damn, universe is really *** big" moment, because you haven't even moved and was entertained for hours.

Maybe Odyssey will help with this.

Well... I have to say that if every activity is the same on different places, that goes back being repetitive, but its also really hard for a devteam, to make new challenges for individual locations, so yeah... Maybe if they get an AI to write stories for each places... hmmm... that kind of AI is probably not possible by today's technology but we are getting there slowly...
 
It's a mix. I'm here a little longer than that.

On the one hand there's the tension between the great achievement that is ED, vs. the unfulfilled potential it obviously has. And that it seems to be 'so' obvious in a similar way to a broad part of the community, yet it's impossible for us to communicate this to FDev's community facing people in a way that gets things done. Responses, if we get any, tend to be 'but gameplay' or 'we'll add it to the list', and the game's development takes its own cryptic path anyway.

On the other hand, there is the obvious passion for the project from the individuals at FDev we have gotten to know via streams or at events. The people who have stepped out and faced the community over the years (Eddie, Adam, Mike Brookes, JustCallMeWendy, Dav, Dominic, SJA and the CM team of course) are as invested as we are, and it feels unkind to them to write off FDev in toto. When community frustration boils over into bitterness and we get another 48 page threadnaught on the evils of FDev, ED must become a bit less of a passion project and more of just a job, and they look for their next project at FDev or elsewhere.

It's perhaps too easy to ascribe the game's shortcomings to a faceless product manager bureaucrat who is satisfied as long as there's a major release every 18 months, but it feels like at some layer, the grassroots passion for the game is not converted into a dazzling gameplay execution. Vision and scale, yes, graphics, yes, sound, definitely, backend, stability and scalability, yes, but gameplay that scales from an initial wow to something consistent and still able to create surprises after hundreds of hours is where it performs but does not excel. I feel that maybe FDev design is a little too fond of pretty set pieces and not creating new systems gameplay, or else is unable to sell their ideas to PM in the face of making them work on the galactic scale in case they kill performance or introduce money exploits and more community aggro.

Well I don't remember exact discussions, but I do remember frustrations after game release, when we still were fresh from Beta (and others from Alpha) and full of ideas for when the "meat" for the game will come.

It just never really came. Everyone tried really hard to brainstorm Powerplay solutions, but it still remained kinda hollow and was just used to get the 20mil check or imp hammer for PvP.

I played a lot anyway and really liked the game, going to core even when we had ~10 LY jumps and no route planning, I mean..there isn't a better space sim out imho, it's just very easy to see how much more awesome it could be and from there comes all the frustration.

And as always.. as a holder of lifetime pass, I'm happy for any big expansion, even if last time I played was engineer update on release :)
 
You make good points and the first paragraph is what I mean with my FDev critique.

Maybe both systems could co-exist? Jumping directly to point (station/planet) and SCing there. Both would have different reasons you would want to use them and different flavor.

Jumping would be faster but maybe prone to burocratic checks and extra payment in nav beacon license/codes for jumps or fuel (military fuel in 1st encounters anyone?), you could also leave big wake behind and risk being tracked easily or longer.

SC would be for scavenging, salvage, smuggling, exploring or getting around on the cheap and more quietly.

Given the history though, I wouldn't hold my breath for any updates.
We already have a paywall divide that separates one group from having to engage with much of the game that the rest of the players face: The atrocities also known as fleet carriers.

If we add another divide, another way to circumvent supercruise, we just separate the two different games people face even more based on in-game wealth.

There will be one group sitting - probably on their fleet carriers - playing a spreadsheet game and also likely publishing cr/hr ratios that will work as red flags on some of those not having those same privileges but who also have an unhealthy focus on cr/hr as a measure of fun.

Then there will be the other group that engage with the gameplay elements relying on supercruise, so pretty much everything not happening at bases. Many of these will likely see the above-mentioned cr/hr ratios from the fast-jumper/FC-owners and demand the same "balance" for everybody else. FD will eventually cave in and the game economy will go even more out of whack.

Best solution is still to make supercruising more interesting. Not necessarily slower or more busy, but with more options for things to do and engage with while SC'ing around. Half of Star Trek happens during warping from A to B, so perhaps we could find something to do while in warp space as well.

:D S
 
Punching that FSD key should feel like going pedal to the metal and breaking the lightspeed barrier, rather than breaking the jello wall and slogging through the system.
 
Best solution is still to make supercruising more interesting. Not necessarily slower or more busy, but with more options for things to do and engage with while SC'ing around. Half of Star Trek happens during warping from A to B, so perhaps we could find something to do while in warp space as well.

:D S
Can you provide some specific examples of things you would like to see implemented that you believe would make long SuperCruise journeys more interesting/engaging?
 
Can you provide some specific examples of things you would like to see implemented that you believe would make long SuperCruise journeys more interesting/engaging?

I take it you haven't actually read much of this thread, or in fact any other discussions we have had of this in the past 7-ish years. Here's a snippet from this thread:

Considering how much of the game is going on between the stars, then no, none of the above solutions will work to improve anything. In fact, slowing things down might be better if that slowing down comes with added things to do.

The supercruise flight could be made more interactive, or at least easier to visualise. Essentially we warp the space we pass through, and the farther we are from stellar bodies, the easier space is to bend. So we get a bunch of funny effects such as the inverse sling-shot where we can use a gravity well to brake. This effect was stronger early on, and supercruise travel felt a bit more like a skill than a pass-time.

We could get more sensor input during supercruise. For example, some of the data collected by the discovery scanner ping could be overlain on the UI instead of forcing us into the FSS interface to process it. This could entail a gravity contour overlay that both would indicate where gravity wells are approximately located, but also facilitate picking the quickest route through the a system's gravity field.

Other overlays could be radiation overlays leading to finding USS's. And of course GalNet and such could be made transparent enough that we could fly our ships and still read them.

Space could also be made more dangerous, as originally suggested during the design decision phase. However, making it difficult to get around would make it difficult to showcase the 1:1 galaxy.
:D S
 
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