Is it finally time to get rid of supercruise?

Oh, I have an idea guys! I'm sure no one has heard this idea before. How about... getting rid of the long supercruise rides and have instantaneous teleportation to each and every spot we want to go to? Isn't that a great idea?

No? Not a good idea? ... oh... ok...
 
I take it you haven't actually read much of this thread, or in fact any other discussions we have had of this in the past 7-ish years. Here's a snippet from this thread:


:D S
These suggestions are only of benefit for small and/or populated systems, but wouldn’t really make it very interesting for explorers in uninhabited systems travelling to a star 500,000 ls away.

I would be very happy with gravitational ‘ley lines’ to help guide faster SuperCruise travel (I take it you are OK with faster SuperCruise speeds if there is skill involved), but everything you mentioned above could be implemented in addition to Micro Jumps and faster acceleration/deceleration.
 
Oh, I have an idea guys! I'm sure no one has heard this idea before. How about... getting rid of the long supercruise rides and have instantaneous teleportation to each and every spot we want to go to? Isn't that a great idea?

No? Not a good idea? ... oh... ok...
Good job no one is asking for that.
 
Good job no one is asking for that.
Yeah. I haven't see a single one asking for that the past 20 minutes, sorry years and years. :D

It's funny, in a game where space-flight simulation was a thing in itself, and many players signed on simply because of the flying part, there's now a sudden need to get rid of it for expedience of task-completions.
 
These suggestions are only of benefit for small and/or populated systems, but wouldn’t really make it very interesting for explorers in uninhabited systems travelling to a star 500,000 ls away.

I would be very happy with gravitational ‘ley lines’ to help guide faster SuperCruise travel (I take it you are OK with faster SuperCruise speeds if there is skill involved), but everything you mentioned above could be implemented in addition to Micro Jumps and faster acceleration/deceleration.
Overlays of instrument data (radiation, gravimetry) would be useful for exploration, and could even be a way to circumvent the FSS to some extent (just to revive that old nugget of a debate).

Gravimetric ley-lines could be one visualisation of the gravimetric overlay. It shouldn't allow for faster travel, but it should allow to find the optimal route and therefore fastest travel, using a bit of skill.

I'm not a huge fan of microjumps. I suggested earlier a version of micro-jumps where we would enter a system at or near the barymetric centre, which in multi-star system would be in the equally inconvenient point around mid-way between all stars. We could then be able to micro-jump to the edge of the planetary halo of each star and then have to supercruise from there.

That could be taken a step further and add a bit of risk of jump failure incurring a cooldown or even a malfunction needing repairs - the microjumpdrive might even burn out: If there is an undiscovered USS in between entry and exit points of the micro-jump, the jump would fail somewhere along the route. USSes could of course be resolved using the FSS, and/or the radiation overlay I suggested earlier.

The microjump drive could even be used inside a planetary halo, but the risk of failure would be much, much higher.

:D S
 
Do you mean 'lore, physics, and potential longevity of the game' reasons given last week, or have there been other utterances on the record about the SC design? Pardon me for not having kept up, I've been locked in the cargo hold for a couple of years.

Pretty much yeah. "potential longevity of the game" is the main one that's really hard to address without business specific info that only FDEV have a complete picture of. Given the rising average concurrent user base over the life of the game it seems reasonable for them to believe they've got it right or at least good enough.
 
Yes. Yes it is time to get rid of supercruise. It worked well on the Amiga in the 1990s. It doesn't now
 
Supercruise is a defining feature of Elite Dangerous. Seeing the orbital lines move closer to resolve into a planet or moon. Whatever tweaks- if any- occur, this should never be changed.
 
Show me an example of someone seriously asking for instant Galaxy-wide teleportation.

I'm sure your ability to search the forum will be quite up to the task of digging up some of the old suggestions already made.

Perhaps we can thank the Jacques mis-jump back in the days for all the why-can't-we suggestions...

:D S
 
You don't need to remove supercruise to fix it. Supercruise can continue to exist in the game, exactly as it does, and we could fix the problem. Supercruise could definitely be improved, and many posters have put forth some interesting suggestions.

You can make the game better by adding subsystem jumps. If you could jump into orbit of any body in a system (like a carrier can), you would still need to cruise over to the station, or down to the surface. You'd still need to fly out to the USS, POI, Objective, etc. You'd just be able to do it in less time because you can jump to the nearest body. Supercruise and subsystem jumping would coexist as complimentary in-system travel mechanics.
Limiting subsystem jumping to stars would still leave you with plenty of excessive supercruise times that would end with people complaining that they can't jump to bodies. I don't see a compelling argument why you shouldn't be able to jump to bodies.

Supercruise doesn't add to the scale of the game. I went to Hutton. It didn't make me feel space was big. I did something else and hardly looked at the screen. Intersystem travel is what makes space feel big. If you just made supercruise faster, you'd reduce the scale of the game. There is no difference between getting there 2x as fast, and traveling half as far if your frame of reference stays the same. Subsystem jumps keeps the scale of the system by... shifting the frame? (this joke is prolly tired, i'm new to the forum) The vast distance still exists, but because of the miracle of technology, you can jump over it in a blink of an eye.

Really... what is the point of all the stuff that is so far away if nobody is going there? It might as well not even exist. Sure, there's better payouts, but its not worth it or it would take too long, so you still don't take the job. Why even offer the mission? Eliminating the bulk of the travel time between two points means that missions could be done faster, so you'd have to reduce the rewards. No problem with that. Instead of taking a half hour to do a courier mission, you could do courier missions for a half hour. The second option sounds like it involves more interaction and gameplay, that's what is important.

Subsystem jumping would not make PVP interdictions impossible. Depending on the distance you get dumped into orbit, it might even make them easier (need to think on that one). Subsystem jumps would create wakes, and they could be followed.

Traveling a 1/10th of a light year in an instant may require some costs, I get it. Instead of outright rejecting the premise, I invite you to suggest what you think that cost could be? Would it work if you could only do it every 5 minutes? Would it work if it consumed a lot of fuel? How bout if it needed an exotic fuel that was more expensive, or required cargo space? What if it required an optional module? What if the bigger the ship, the larger that module needed to be? What if it dumped me a little ways out from the planet, what if it dumped me inside the planet's gravity? What if the AA frameshift drive cost 5 billion credits and you needed 100 pattern epsilons to unlock it. What if it took delivering 50 hutton mugs to an engineer in colonia. (the last few are a bit too much, right?)
I've come to bargain. What do you think it should cost me to not have to stare at the screen for 10 minutes while I wait for the opportunity to play the game and make my lasers go pew pew. I like this game, I want to play it. Give me things to do with my hands on the controls. Don't make me wait. I'm not asking for bigger rewards with less work. I'm asking for MORE gameplay in the time I spend playing this game.
 
Show me an example of someone seriously asking for instant Galaxy-wide teleportation.
I know I kind'a exaggerated a bit, but it's always something like "supercruise is too slow, too long, too..." and some idea of how it would be better if there was something else, shorter, faster, direct, instantaneous. But the issue really is, this game is at its core a space-ship flight simulation. So we should be lucky we even have a supercruise and not have to travel everywhere in sublight. :D

And I do think I did see something about teleportation the other day, also the holo-me, and maybe there was one about quantum jumps, insta-jump between stars in the system, and so on.

--edit

Quotes from this thread:
"2. Remove supercruise
I've heard it repeated often here and on reddit that in the very early days of Elite Dangerous, there wasn't going to be supercruise. We'd be able to jump directly between the bodies and signal sources.

3. Allow jumping between bodies"
 
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Apex Taxis have really underlined the issues with traveltimes in this game, highlighted rather nicely by ObsidianAnt's latest video. Supercruise travel-times between places are significantly high, even at short-range. I didn't realise the scale of the issue until the times were presented.

There are a couple of possible solutions.

1. Increase ship acceleration & decelleration
This would be for all vessels. Tie it to module quality etc if you need to. Or add in some form of interactive gameplay that allows for players to move faster.

2. Remove supercruise
I've heard it repeated often here and on reddit that in the very early days of Elite Dangerous, there wasn't going to be supercruise. We'd be able to jump directly between the bodies and signal sources.

3. Allow jumping between bodies
Or at the least in-system stars. This iswas my favourite.
Once we're in a system, give us the opportunity to do supercruise-to-supercruise jumping between celestial bodies.
We keep opportunities for interdiction gameplay.
We keep opportunities for seeing where players and NPCs are before jumping
We don't exclude traveling for mission signal sources, persisting PoIs, and carriers.
We get the best of both worlds.

EDIT:
4. Engaging supercruising experience

You know how we've got the interdiction experience? And riding the waves of a jet-cone boost?
Making currents / routes through space that a skillful pilot can use to go faster than a straight line is my new favourite.

It lets idle players just point their ship and AFK watching netflix and reading Reddit if they prefer - but it rewards active piloting with faster speeds.
Highly recommend this choice.

END EDIT

If you think there's an opportunity to improve the game with one of these options, please share what you would prefer, and why.
Comment in the gameplay feedback thread too.
And if you think things are fine as they are, and the arguments above don't sway you - I am more than curious to hear what value / enjoyment you get out of the long SC journeys :)
What exactly have Apex underlined?

The Alpha takes part in a system that the majority of players would have avoided like the plague to begin with, because how many players do regularly visit systems that requires longer super cruise travels, I know I am avoiding places that is 5000-7000 LS and it needs to be special if I go past 10 000 LS... But what is quite more telling, I also AVOIDS landing on planets!

But lets go over your suggestions

1. Faster acceleration and deceleration
How much would that really solve in the end? expecially when it comes to landing and taking off from planets!

2. Remove supercruise, and jump directly to bodies and signal sources, would still not solve much, you have jumped to the planet (body) and then you still have to land and take off

3. Jumping between bodies, or atleast stars.
Have still the same issues as the other two, you need to land and take off from the planet.

4. This sounds the most fun of them all, but what would be fun and engaging activity to engage in? And it would still not solve the issue with landing and taking off from planets.

So I know how I envision this from a practical point of view, super cruise assists module, when engaged, it should seek out the mapped super cruise lanes where we have a predictable journey, and the countdown timer to destination should be 100% accurate, if it says 35 seconds to destination it is 35 seconds until the ships leaves super cruise, enter orbit if destination is a planet, or leave glide if the destination is a ground destination. The word here is predictability, think slow and stead.
In contrast to this, we have the fast and furious approach, where you skip all safety training, seek out all space hazards and either avoid them, since they slow you down, or do something more dangeorus and use them as a speed booster, like Neutron star boosting, but in super cruise...
And now for the daring among use, we fly our own path, and expertly avoids all sub-space obstacles that have negative effect on our speed, and take advantage off sub-space things that gives us a boost. The problem is how would this work in practice? how would we interact with this? how do we make this fun? and it should be obvious that explorers would have to deal with this all the time, because if they are in an unmapped system, how could we have "super cruise highways" there? if they are the first to discover it?




So it is not the super cruise that is the problem, it just seems like it, due to the choice of system used in the Alpha... but the bigger problem, is the time it takes to land and take off from a planet. and that is not something that most often is missing from this discussion! As super cruise distant will be added to on-foot missions, just as this is available on regular mission today, so that gives players the option to choose to accept those missions with long super cruise distance, and ingame we also have mission payout that scales with super cruise distance, giving players another incentive to accept missions to these destinations!

And check the numbers again from Obsdidian Ant, how much of those times are the landing part? If you look up the mentioned video from Exigeous he do mentions that the landing is big part of the time for the short distance journeys. And if you start from ground base and travel to another ground base, then that time increases even more!

So 2.2M meter distance, 2.52, super cruise time for 2.2M meter is hardly the time sink here. assuming we start from a space station, the bulk of this time is landing on the planet. there is of course some time in taking off, and entering supercruise...I do not know when the clock starts, but does this include the time running from Apex counter to the elevator, taking the elevator and then running to the ship and then take off etc. as that portion is also a quite a big time thief in the end.

Now look at the 10 LS and 53LS and 153 LS times, 4:15, 4:45 and 5:18, there is not much difference here. as most of these times is most likely just the take off and landing part part. and the we start to get to 2000 LS, 3300 LS and last 150 000 LS, and now we start to see the super cruise to really eat up the travel times, but then again, would we really be picking mission to these destination unless we had better motivations todo so, ie incentives in good pay, or extra good material rewards?


These sort of incentives works, just look at mining, before we got the much higher payout on mined stuff, there was no end on the complaints in these forums on how hard it was to mine 500T, how boring and bad this was, and onmtop of this, you then had to mine some "hard to find" painite, just add salt to your emotional scars from that boring 500T mining session they had to endure... add the new higher payout for mined stuff, and people would now happily spend hours filling up their Type 9 to the brim with painite, often over 700T, and then earn excess of 200 million credits /hour, doing stuff that people before could not complain enough about, laser mining, doing the exact same thing as what was required to unlock Selene Jean!
We also had the other gold rush when super cruise distance bonus was awared to mission payouts, causing player to freely stack those mission to a far away station and then go there for the huge payout!
 
All I want is the ability to do a mini-jump to another star in the same system. That's all. I don't care if it takes another module or 3, or requires some kind of almostunobtainum, just let me do that and I'll insta-buy Odyssey.
 
You know, especially if you play in open there is plenty to do in supercruise, like watching your butt, checking out the nav chart etc. and at least part of the game play is knowing what the cruise distance to your objective is.
If you think supercruise is not gameplay take a cargo full of something valuable through an anarchy system.
Preferably in a type 9.
 
If you think supercruise is not gameplay take a cargo full of something valuable through an anarchy system.
And play the ridiculously trivially easy what even is the damn point minigame to escape interdiction? Whoop de ing do.

I think you meant to say "... through a system currently being used for a community goal while in open"
 
A T9 is certainly a little harder to track the blue target, but there is so much leniency in the NPC interdictions that even that is pretty trivial - it just takes longer than a more maneuverable vessel. But an interdiction by another player is a totally different beast that the NPC interdictions don't prepare you for in the slightest.
 
Overlays of instrument data (radiation, gravimetry) would be useful for exploration, and could even be a way to circumvent the FSS to some extent
Yes please! I'd love more ways to 'manually' do things. Different overlays and learning to 'spot' things could be a better alternative to 'hold to fire' scanners and like you said, optimal SC paths could be found more interactively, which would be so much fun!
 
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