Is it finally time to get rid of supercruise?

We can't remove supercruise, how else would we fly around celestial bodies and land on specific places in planets without supercruise?

We could however shorten these ludicrous thumb twiddling travel times, by increasing acceleration and deceleration.

I would support this idea, but only if it comes with increasing risk (Terminus style, anyone still know this old game/simulation?). In Terminus you could theoretically accelerate without any hard limits, but from a certain speed on your ship would increasingly lose structural integrity (by micro particles, so the somewhat tinfoiled lore) - up to the point where your ship would break/explode.

In my book easily the best solution for space games/sims to avoid this popular and completely risk free artificial speed limit.
 
Before I say anything and it predictably gets rejected as some outsider wanting to change the game to dumb it down, I hit triple elite last year, and have over 4,000 hours in the game as of right now, and I think the current state of supercruise is boring as hell, especially in some systems where you're stuck waiting for minutes upon minutes with nothing much to do.

To be absolutely clear, I love this game, from the way the ships feel to the way that it tries so much more than many other sci-fi games to ground its setting in actual science and realistic sociopolitics, and it aligns perfectly with that to have travel take time - which I'm entirely okay with. My problem is that there are so many ways - both as suggested in this thread and otherwise - that we can both have stuff take time and keep us busy and engaged. I don't think removing supercruise would make sense from both a development and game design perspective, given that so much already exists in the game that's enabled by it, and it truly drives home the scales involved, but I honestly think we really need options for stuff to do while we wait.

As much as I love parts of this community, there are some people that seem so hellbent on being kneejerk about any suggestion of altering how travel works likely because the way it works right now aligns 100% for them exactly, subjectively speaking, but here's the thing: it's possible to make certain changes (add in more skill based stuff that can make the experience more engaging) without taking anything away from people who want to experience supercruise the same way as they always have. They did that with mining: laser mining still works more or less the same; they also did that with more or less with exploration: if you want to just supercruise up to each body to scan stuff in the more passive way as previously, I believe it works about the same, other than the honk and system map reveal working a bit different now.

I've seen a few people characterize making changes as an either/or binary, as either it's deep and complicated and takes time, or "dumbed down" and instant gratification; that's pretty counterproductive to any sort of constructive conversation and an easy way to discount what people are suggesting so that you don't have to engage with it. I do UX design for a living, which includes a lot of programming and design to sand down the rough edges and make stuff work smoothly and intuitively, allowing people to interact with complex systems without necessarily "dumbing them down", so I like to think I have some insight into how these things can be accomplished. I will fight you and probably win. :geek:

And while we're on the subject of changing stuff and people complaining about it: the FSS is literally the reason I even got into exploration and finally got into deep space, made it to Colonia, Sagittarius A*, etc. I found the previous requirement of having to go to every body in a system to do a scan mind numbing and really boring from a gameplay point of view. I don't do detailed surface scans much even with the DSS equipped, but I know some people love that, and that's totally okay.

Anyways, before this comment gets too long (too late), as someone who hopes to put another 4,000 hours into this game, I'll conclude with this: you can have stuff that takes a long time and is an achievement without making the stuff in between so boring that watching YouTube/Netflix at the same is a requirement. I've got over 8,000 hours (seeing a pattern here?) in Path of Exile, arguably one of the best action RPGs around, and finally got a character to level 100 last year - the grind from 99 to 100 took a good chunk of the year and had many setbacks, but those devs have mastered giving you so many things to do and that randomly cross your path while you're doing all that grind that you end up not caring about how long it takes.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
From a place of curiosity and not understanding your viewpoint (rather than saying that it's wrong), can you let me know what gameplay you'd miss by having shorter SC times? :)
Buckyball racing club.

Shorter SC times was only one of your suggestions, you've not fully explained how you expect this faster acceleration and deceleration to work (though I see you've edited your OP to include another one of the suggestions that's been posted since release). The fact that you only really have slow acceleration and deceleration times when you are around objects with a gravitational field isn't mentioned, nor is the fact that once you learn a few things about how SC works you can significantly speed up your time exiting the gravity well of a body, travelling through a system, and entering a gravity well.

Source: https://youtu.be/wWSPWL7Atsg
 
Just to drop my 2cr here: Intra-system jumps between stars only would solve most of the problem. There really is no point to sitting around for half an hour going through completely empty space with nothing to even look at for over 50kls. This isn't lore-breaking, as FSDs establish hyperspace tethers based on the largest mass they can find in the direction you point them in - if you're a few light years away from a system, this manifests itself in the FSD locking onto the most massive star. If you're a few hundred thousand light seconds away, however, you could feasibly just point the FSD at a specific star.

You'd still have to supercruise between planets. Supercruise would still be an option for all your Hutton Orbital Trucking needs. As someone who hit triple elite and has almost 2,000 hours in the game, stop wasting my time and just let me go to a planet to do my business without having to wait half an hour every time.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Add *2 to the last step of the speed calculation function.
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1, 3 and 4.

Removing super cruise would be insane. There's nothing wrong with it in principle, it's a nice way to do the travelling between places. It's just the huge distances where it becomes a problem.

1- changing the getting back up to speed, and slowing down to stop part - would allow people to drop into and come out of signal sources without being bothered about getting back up to speed, or spending ages getting down to speed. The way they currently work is the equivalent of playing Skyrim, seeing a cave in the distance, and having sprint disabled, then run disabled, then walk disabled so you have to crouch, then having a slower crouch mode, until you reach the cave, then when you come out, having to do the same in reverse. -- Allow us to drop on signal sources at any speed, then have us get back up to that speed in a few seconds after coming back up into cruise. This makes them much more viable as in super cruise activity.

3- Solves the large distance problem, leaves supercruise in tact, can still be followed by pirates (introduce a medium wake system if needed)

4- Would be excellent because actual gameplay mechanics being added is always great.
 
So you are saying that in a game about flying your spaceship, flying your spaceship is boring?
This is such a sad argument to see.

Flying a spaceship implies using the controls. Huge distance supercruise doesn't require any control input except at the beginning and the end. Line up, set throttle - waaaaiiiiittttt - re align, finish approach, drop out.

The start and end of that is flying a spaceship. The middle part is doing nothing.
 
This is such a sad argument to see.

Flying a spaceship implies using the controls. Huge distance supercruise doesn't require any control input except at the beginning and the end. Line up, set throttle - waaaaiiiiittttt - re align, finish approach, drop out.

The start and end of that is flying a spaceship. The middle part is doing nothing.
In the same vein in ETS 2 all you do is press left and right as the highway turns. It only gets interesting when you are in cities. Also what you described is exactly what you did in both Frontier and First Encounters. Even with the Stardreamer, it took time. Doesn't mean it is not part of gameplay.

Is there nothing to do? True. But cutting it out is not the answer. Last I checked this was Elite and not Tie-Fighter.
 
In the same vein in ETS 2 all you do is press left and right as the highway turns. It only gets interesting when you are in cities. Also what you described is exactly what you did in both Frontier and First Encounters. Even with the Stardreamer, it took time. Doesn't mean it is not part of gameplay.

Is there nothing to do? True. But cutting it out is not the answer. Last I checked this was Elite and not Tie-Fighter.

I don't really want it cut out (I like supercruise in general!), I would prefer gameplay being added to it.

But failing that, inter system jumps is an easy solution for Frontier to implement compared to creating entirely new game mechanics.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Semi-Serious.

Why don’t you think it would work?
Aside from the fact it's not as simple as just multiplying things by 2. What happens if you fly too close to a planet you your way to another? What happens when you come across an Asteroid Belt Cluster. You slow down twice as fast, then you will take longer to break out of the gravity well as you fly past it, then it speeds up again. What about short SC journeys where the targets are within 100Ls of the star, let alone 50Ls.

I'm really not going to get involved in this conversation again more than this. It's been 7 years of people claiming they want something else and knowing that it will be better, without ever actually being able to agree on what better is. I had enough of it by the time the game released :)
 
I don't really want it cut out (I like supercruise in general!), I would prefer gameplay being added to it.

But failing that, inter system jumps is an easy solution for Frontier to implement compared to creating entirely new game mechanics.
I'm all for more random stuff happening in supercruise. Currently we only have the signal sources, but honestly, when you are en route to Hutton, you are too fast to even react to them. If they want us to be distracted by them, they should either be opportunities for interesting encounter, or pose a threat in some way.
 
I'm all for more random stuff happening in supercruise. Currently we only have the signal sources, but honestly, when you are en route to Hutton, you are too fast to even react to them. If they want us to be distracted by them, they should either be opportunities for interesting encounter, or pose a threat in some way.

100% agree.

The scanning system for them was an excellent change, now you can look at them and see what's in there to some extent before dropping in.

Thing is, you have to target them to do that - it might be good to not have to target them so directly (the FSS allows this, but, you need to be at zero throttle... problematic)

Then, if you could drop into them at any speed (even if it hit your hull too do so) - there would be less crazy slow down time.

Then, if you could get back up to that speed you were at when you dropped in in a second or two - there would be less overall loss of time to check them out.

This would make supercruise have more stuff to actually do while within it that didn't just make the journey considerably longer.

Of course, none of this works for Apex, as you can't drop into signal sources...
 
100% agree.

The scanning system for them was an excellent change, now you can look at them and see what's in there to some extent before dropping in.

Thing is, you have to target them to do that - it might be good to not have to target them so directly (the FSS allows this, but, you need to be at zero throttle... problematic)

Then, if you could drop into them at any speed (even if it hit your hull too do so) - there would be less crazy slow down time.

Then, if you could get back up to that speed you were at when you dropped in in a second or two - there would be less overall loss of time to check them out.

This would make supercruise have more stuff to actually do while within it that didn't just make the journey considerably longer.

Of course, none of this works for Apex, as you can't drop into signal sources...
Well, space Uber is space Uber. They have to add better (more expensive) pilot and ship configs, with crazy MOM level AI, that flies as the best CMDRs do between gravity wells. And they need to let you take over turrets on big ships, in case the Taxi gets interdicted. That is a minimum I see for it to be even remotely viable. Because a paper Adder with a harmless AI is just cannon fodder for anyone who wants to shoot fish in a barrel.
 
Well, space Uber is space Uber. They have to add better (more expensive) pilot and ship configs, with crazy MOM level AI, that flies as the best CMDRs do between gravity wells. And they need to let you take over turrets on big ships, in case the Taxi gets interdicted. That is a minimum I see for it to be even remotely viable. Because a paper Adder with a harmless AI is just cannon fodder for anyone who wants to shoot fish in a barrel.

Yes, I really expected Apex to get interdicted, and for you to be able to use the Gunner/Fighter role when they touted it originally.

I have to say I am pretty surprised they haven't gone for that.
It's fairly clear they had no intention of it, as the role panel has all the on foot loadout stuff on it, not the ship role stuff you use to take those ship roles.
 
Aside from the fact it's not as simple as just multiplying things by 2. What happens if you fly too close to a planet you your way to another? What happens when you come across an Asteroid Belt Cluster. You slow down twice as fast, then you will take longer to break out of the gravity well as you fly past it, then it speeds up again. What about short SC journeys where the targets are within 100Ls of the star, let alone 50Ls.

I'm really not going to get involved in this conversation again more than this. It's been 7 years of people claiming they want something else and knowing that it will be better, without ever actually being able to agree on what better is. I had enough of it by the time the game released :)
I’m pretty sure ship speed at any given moment is calculated by a function that does all the relevant checks and balances based on current gravitational conditional conditions. Double the acceleration/deceleration values within that function and you wouldn’t experience the speed-up-slow-down issues you mentioned. Your ship would accelerate twice as quickly, and decelerate twice as quickly.

I’m not seeing how this would be a problem.

I could be wrong about the implementation of the speed acceleration/deceleration function, but I bet FDev would know for sure and be able to change it.

(Before you point out that my suggestion is not based on any actual knowledge of the Elite Dangerous code base, I should note that it is just as valid as your belief that the acceleration/deceleration curve can’t be changed.)

In summary, developers can change the game code to do whatever they want.
 
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