Powerplay Is PowerPlay dead?

[Martin Schou]

They DEFINITELY are concerned about THEIR standing! There are benefits to being in the top 3 that no-one cares about except the Alliance it seems because they are reaping the greatest benefit!

When Mahon is rated 1, we get 20% dividends on trades done in Mahon space. That's such a massive benefit, that we're better off trading outside of Mahon space, if we're actually trying to make money. The only thing that might be more profitable in Mahon space than elsewhere is mining, and even that is somewhat doubtful.

No, we reap no tangible benefits from being ranked 1st. We don't do it for selfish reasons - we do it to promote the Alliance.

 

[peppi]

if i knew how to play it i would
but i did not went to high school
even if i did i think we need a universaty degree to understand how this works

i am trying to understand this thing for a couple of days now with no luck [down]

 

[Vetch]

The scope of PP is too large, and for the 1-3x/week (2 hours per session) gamer like me it's a total waste of time. I spent the last 2 weeks working PP for the Empire. Leveled up to 4 just prior to the Thursday "pay day", considering I spent over 10 mil trying to quick level up I was hoping for my 5 mil kickback. What I got instead was 500K, a reduction of half my merits, and NO INCREASE in status. Far as I'm concerned PP is not only a waste of time, but now I feel I've been robbed by over 10mil by Elite Dangerous programming.

It's almost made me want to quit the game entirely. Considering that Elite was my favorite C64 game from the 80's, I waited my whole life to see this game come back. I'm so disappointed, I might never play it again. We'll see. I hope the dev group reads my post.

 

[Calrissian]

Right yeah, the misunderstanding is mine. I would have thought by now most had a clue that you can't "take someone else's territory". My mistake.
If Powerplay had that sort of dynamism, we probably wouldn't have an "is Powerplay dead?" thread every month or so.

Happy Easter Everyone!

Yes you can take another powers territory. I've helped do it IN Power Play. So yes, you are mistaken.
More excesses.....

Back to Easter festivities for me. Catch you Commanders later.

 

[Misaniovent]

Happy Easter Everyone!

Yes you can take another powers territory. I've helped do it IN Power Play. So yes, you are mistaken.
More excesses.....

Back to Easter festivities for me. Catch you Commanders later.

Really? If I want to someone else's profitable control system, what are the steps I need to take in order to accomplish that?

 

[fergal]

This is some high-grade tinfoil.

Its not even low grade tinfoil, just logical analysis.

Grom has had some success in getting system from Delaine, but thats not going to work anymore.
I've been told they tried and failed to get systems from Mahon, and they don't seem able to get anything from the two federation powers.

Grom needs to get more systems, and push down Patreus and Antal, the next 2 up the ladder from him.

So lets see who other than Mahon, Hudson, Winters and Delaine that has all the systems within 90LY of Groms headquaters:

Those systems are how Grom gets out from being 10th or even 11th.
But the ZYADA agreement they are in protects Torval and Patreus from Grom, thus keeping Grom in his current position, unless he attacks Antal, which his players are unwilling to do.

I'd say Torval is the easiest way for Grom to advance, and it would also help two other members of ZYADA advance, ALD and Aisling.

 

[withnail]

This is why alliances are bad for powerplay, they force stagnation.

 

[Misaniovent]

Its not even low grade tinfoil, just logical analysis.

Grom has had some success in getting system from Delaine, but thats not going to work anymore.
I've been told they tried and failed to get systems from Mahon, and they don't seem able to get anything from the two federation powers.

Grom needs to get more systems, and push down Patreus and Antal, the next 2 up the ladder from him.

So lets see who other than Mahon, Hudson, Winters and Delaine that has all the systems within 90LY of Groms headquaters:

http://i.imgur.com/tEKDmmN.png

Those systems are how Grom gets out from being 10th or even 11th.
But the ZYADA agreement they are in protects Torval and Patreus from Grom, thus keeping Grom in his current position, unless he attacks Antal, which his players are unwilling to do.

I'd say Torval is the easiest way for Grom to advance, and it would also help two other members of ZYADA advance, ALD and Aisling.

Superficial logical analysis that's missing most of the political factors, as well as some of the mechanical factors. I think you're too disconnected from current politics. We have no desire to attack Antal and we never have, even though we could have gained significantly from it in the past (in the 60s, when almost all of the combat power in the entire game was concentrated in ALD and Patreus, we didn't use it to open new fronts. We used it to make progress on the ones we already had). It's not mechanically worthwhile, either — Antal has 55 systems and 93% of them have reduced triggers. Their tonnage requirements and system count makes them the most defensible power in the game, barring Archon and Grom. Massive turmoil for them would maybe force them to lose one system, and then that would be it. Why would ZYADA want to trade a neutral, cordial power for one system? The value isn't there. There's no value in growth for Patreus right now, either. We would maybe gain a system and pass them on the standings. Who cares?

Compare our situation to Hudson's. New profitable systems will not increase their overheads. They could have gained tremendously from BD+49 1280 when you put it into turmoil. Instead, they focused on Grom that week. Why?

 

[Calrissian]

Really? If I want to someone else's profitable control system, what are the steps I need to take in order to accomplish that?

Really. First you have to turmoil the system. If you succeed at that then you have to undermine the system successfully again to remove the system from the Power. The system then becomes independent. hen you have to successfully expand into that system.

Yes, it's A LOT I know but it can be done. I helped do it in the past. ;-)

 

[Strangepork]

Nothing has really moved in the standings in weeks if not a month or two! It just looks like all the Imperial ladies are giving Mahon "favors." ;-)

The Yuri Grom folks were HOT during the competition! What the hell happened?

Well, it is getting nice outside again. Did the steady player base drop?

...an ex parrot IMO. Not congruent with the game in any way.

 

[Calrissian]

This is why alliances are bad for powerplay, they force stagnation.

i agree with you wholeheartedly although I do understand the necessity to do so. Besides, alliances are quite telling IMO. 7 Powers willing to ignore the actions of the top Alliance Power to keep 3 other Powers (Federation and the Archon) from advancement just tells me that all the badass people to fear are within the latter 3 powers.

- - - Updated - - -

...an ex parrot IMO. Not congruent with the game in any way.

I don't even remotely get what your talking about. PowerPlay is an integral part of the game.

You must be an Alliance supporter. They seem to attract all the Hipsters.

 

[Misaniovent]

First you have to turmoil the system.

Incomplete answer. C-. Please expand your answer for full credit.

If you succeed at that then you have to undermine the system successfully again to remove the system from the Power.

Incorrect. F--, see me after class.

 

[Valethar]

I wouldn't call it dead, but it's certainly not nearly as lively as it once was.

There are active fifth columns in several (if not all) of the factions, continually trying to undermine them from within. In some cases, the best option at present is to simply hunker down and fortify, which keeps things at a stalemate. There's also a fair degree of apathy involved in the whole process. In order to expand and grow, you have to go further from your home territory. The farmers won't go any farther than the closest systems they can use to grind out their weekly merits, and the more profit minded don't want to spend a ton of time running to far away systems when there's often little of value that can be brought back to help offset the cost of whatever materials are required to expand/fortify/undermine/etc... Why spend all that time flying a profitless route to expand a PP faction when you could be spending that time running trade routes or bounty hunting?

At some point it all boils down to numbers, and it seems like the number of people actively involved in PP has tapered off to the point that it has lost it's momentum.

I'd say it's more of a stagnation at this point than being dead.

 

[fergal]

Why would ZYADA want to trade a neutral, cordial power for one system? The value isn't there. There's no value in growth for Patreus right now, either. We would maybe gain a system and pass them on the standings. Who cares?

Why bother playing PP?
Isn't it completely pointless to someone with that outlook?
This was exactly what I meant when I said it looks like only the players in the top 2 powers are actually trying to help their powers, I'd change that though to Mahon, Torval and ALD.
ALD is trying to take more systems, even if they have a negative profit.

Antal not attacking Patreus makes complete sense, they are already ahead of them, and they risk turning ALD against them, they have much to lose.

Patreus not attacking Antal, whats the downside?
If you don't care about the galactic standings, why not just stop fortifying and dump your profitable systems to turmoil?
Let Grom and Delaine over take you, who cares right?

Grom players can either keep doing what they are doing, and go back to 11th this week, or they can risk upsetting ALD and try to get systems from Torval.
If they aren't willing to risk anything, then they aren't willing to improve their galactic standing.

 

[Calrissian]

Incomplete answer. C-. Please expand your answer for full credit.



Incorrect. F--, see me after class.

Well, then prove me wrong or just stay on Mahon's hoe train. My apologies. Your a Patreaus CMDR. Break your shackles and stop watching your Imperial counterparts work the hoe train. ;-)

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't call it dead, but it's certainly not nearly as lively as it once was.

There are active fifth columns in several (if not all) of the factions, continually trying to undermine them from within. In some cases, the best option at present is to simply hunker down and fortify, which keeps things at a stalemate. There's also a fair degree of apathy involved in the whole process. In order to expand and grow, you have to go further from your home territory. The farmers won't go any farther than the closest systems they can use to grind out their weekly merits, and the more profit minded don't want to spend a ton of time running to far away systems when there's often little of value that can be brought back to help offset the cost of whatever materials are required to expand/fortify/undermine/etc... Why spend all that time flying a profitless route to expand a PP faction when you could be spending that time running trade routes or bounty hunting?

At some point it all boils down to numbers, and it seems like the number of people actively involved in PP has tapered off to the point that it has lost it's momentum.

I'd say it's more of a stagnation at this point than being dead.

I don't know I agree and see your point in many areas but I thought part of having Scouts would be to find suitable systems to inhabit and conquer. Also I don't think routes to be profitless. A properly equipped ship can make a CMDR credits just about anywhere. I've built and fly one. It costed 500 million credits but it's possible. I made it a point to build one to BE THAT mercenary.

I hope this Salome business and the Aliens spice things up but the hype is being eclipsed by the wait IMO.

 

[Misaniovent]

Why bother playing PP?
Isn't it completely pointless to someone with that outlook?
This was exactly what I meant when I said it looks like only the players in the top 2 powers are actually trying to help their powers, I'd change that though to Mahon, Torval and ALD.
ALD is trying to take more systems, even if they have a negative profit.

Antal not attacking Patreus makes complete sense, they are already ahead of them, and they risk turning ALD against them, they have much to lose.

Patreus not attacking Antal, whats the downside?
If you don't care about the galactic standings, why not just stop fortifying and dump your profitable systems to turmoil?
Let Grom and Delaine over take you, who cares right?

Grom players can either keep doing what they are doing, and go back to 11th this week, or they can risk upsetting ALD and try to get systems from Torval.
If they aren't willing to risk anything, then they aren't willing to improve their galactic standing.

You can sow all the discord you like. It won't bear fruit.

 

[krylite]

What's the trouble? I'm the trouble pointing out player factions and their leaders control the powers, and many solo pledgers have no voice where suggestions to prep,undermine, or flip are always shot down? It actually explains a major reason for the current stalemate no one was willing to discuss until I pointed it out. Sure, I was late to powerplay until late last year, but I'm not ignorant of the mechanics. Yeah I hear the "lecture" about who was here first yadda. No wonder powerplay isn't so readily accessible and most just go for the modules. I'll just have to individually rp for my pledge and also ignore ZYADA.

 

[Jaylem]

Yeah...I really only use it to get the weapons and that's about it haha. Even then they are either useless or restricted to size. nothing much happens for me in powerplay and has a very minor impact on gameplay for me.

 

[krylite]

The scope of PP is too large, and for the 1-3x/week (2 hours per session) gamer like me it's a total waste of time. I spent the last 2 weeks working PP for the Empire. Leveled up to 4 just prior to the Thursday "pay day", considering I spent over 10 mil trying to quick level up I was hoping for my 5 mil kickback. What I got instead was 500K, a reduction of half my merits, and NO INCREASE in status. Far as I'm concerned PP is not only a waste of time, but now I feel I've been robbed by over 10mil by Elite Dangerous programming.

It's almost made me want to quit the game entirely. Considering that Elite was my favorite C64 game from the 80's, I waited my whole life to see this game come back. I'm so disappointed, I might never play it again. We'll see. I hope the dev group reads my post.

You probably did make rank 4. They don't give you the reward amount for the new rank until at least a week maintaining it. You don't need to give up, maintaining it should be easier now.

 

[Misaniovent]

What's the trouble? I'm the trouble pointing out player factions and their leaders control the powers, and many solo pledgers have no voice where suggestions to prep are always shot down? It actually explains a major reason for the current stalemate no one was willing to discuss until I pointed it out. Sure, I was late to powerplay until late last year, but I'm not ignorant of the mechanics. Yeah I hear the "lecture" about who was here first yadda.

Unfortunately, there's really nothing for anyone to prep that isn't damaging. That's why suggestions to prep are declined by organized communities. I'm leading one, and yes, it is disappointing telling people that we are consolidating cycle after cycle because expanding would objectively hurt our power. We (Patreus) don't lecture new players and interested groups. We give our reasons and we provide them with the same information we have, and they make their own conclusions based on that.

The land-grab phase of powerplay has been over for more than a year. I know of one 0 CC system (after overheads and upkeep) Patreus could take, but taking it would reduce our surplus by 121 CC due to increased overheads. We'll take it eventually, but it doesn't make strategic sense at this time. Most powers don't even have a system like that in their pocket. Some have even run out of preps that are only profitable after being fortified. There's nothing left but white elephants and weaponized expansions, which are the real drivers in powerplay now.

People can suggest that we take systems from other powers until the end of time, but it's not that simple. I wrote a lengthy post earlier in this thread explaining that the game mechanically favors defense. Said simply, the game induces powers to fortify more than they would have prior to the consolidation's defence bonus mechanic, which means that powers are constantly buttoned up, closing off avenues of attack. The static galaxy map we are seeing now is the result.

Provocateurs can argue for offensives that suit their allies by creating new conflict between their enemies, but these arguments are based on politics more than possibility.