PvP I've been corrupted *sigh*

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
After a comment in another thread about no big ship duels in Colonia, @Paul Smith the 3rd and I decided to duke it out mano a mano,
his thermal conduit PA Conda against my multi-APA Corvette...

Round one, I lag switched Paul off with my SLF :LOL:
That is still not fixed, so kids, skip the fighter!
(You can't see it in my vid, but Paul said it was terrible)


Round two, without the lag switch was much closer..


I have double the shields and cancelled a lot of his banks, and still he outdamages me
even more then double due to absolute damage.
After that fight I refitted "Lurking Fear" to dual huge Plasma Accelerators.

Tests will be published here :)
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
That fights were lot's of fun, I love flying the Anaconda. On paper both ships have similar shield HP (shield+scb) and the hulls have similar HP's too, just that most of my shield is stored in the SCB's.

The fighter lag was annoying, but I think I would have lost the first fight anyways. The fighter put enough pressure that I never went without a pip to shields, which translated to not having enough cap for weapons and boosts. Hopefully it gets really fixed during the next round of bug fixes as it a shame to not have the fighters duke it out too.

Looking forward to see what damage the 2 huge PAs do, hopefully you don't hit me to often with them.:p
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Just a small impromptu duel in Tir with CMDR @Fuego Estelar .


He was out hunting Colonia's most wanted (no, not me :LOL:), and I was out for some pew pew
as I just got word I'm finally at Homeoffice until further notice.

My cannon/PA FAS is equipped with long range blueprints, speed locked.
But Fuego's biweave FdL is a very light and fast ship, and even for this relatively low shielded FdL the
ammo is not enough, as long as I shoot as bad as I did...

gg CMDR thanks for the fun.
 
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Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Did another slugging match against @Paul Smith the 3rd

This time I used my refitted LRV Lurking Fear, with dual efficient Plasma Accelerators, and a Frag turret.
Paul used his Lila Muhkuh but with quad Pacifiers instead of his usual thermal conduit PA outfit.


I guess I keep the PAs. They work brilliant against big ships.
Only thing I needed to change was the thermal conduit on my PAs, as they don't really work with efficient
and I only hotbanked and hit Paul above 100% twice. So I went back to the classic TLB/dispersal.

Paul wasn't very happy with the pacifiers too, as he drained his ammo about two salvos after I lost my shields,
thats why I would've beaten him in the end.

If someone reads this who has any clue about feedback cascade: I have a feeling I don't cancel
alltoo much of the banks, which is very annoying. I have to LR feedback c1 rails, and half the time
I think they don't cancel the banks like at all ?!
 

A C Ender

A C Ender
If it's for fighting large ships, why not use phasing instead? Very good against ships with huge shields and ignores the PIP and shield resistance for their damage.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
A C Ender said:
If it's for fighting large ships, why not use phasing instead? Very good against ships with huge shields and ignores the PIP and shield resistance for their damage.
Click to expand...
Good question 🤷‍♂️

I'm using some phasing laser builds and lets just say while they are annoying as hell to enemies, fights take ages to end.

Lets compare it:

Two huge efficient plasma accelerators do 310 damage combined if both hit. (TLB/Dispersal are just utilities to mostly annoy your enemy)

Phasing reduces that damage by 12 % to 280 damage if both hit.
It also applies 10% of that reduced damage directly as absolute damage to the hull through shields, so 28 damage.

The hull of my Corvette has 4800 hull points absolute.

Doing 28 damage through shields everytime (100 shots) would roughly bring me to 50% hull.

I'm not sure if that's worth it, because on the other hand you reduce the damage output to bring the shields down by 30.
Against Pauls shield-cell-tank-build it would propably work.

I guess I need to test this, thank you @A C Ender 😝
 
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Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Arguendo
Bigmaec said:
If someone reads this who has any clue about feedback cascade: I have a feeling I don't cancel
alltoo much of the banks, which is very annoying. I have to LR feedback c1 rails, and half the time
I think they don't cancel the banks like at all ?!
Click to expand...
There is a correlation between the size of SCB and the size of the Railgun.
A #1 railgun will do very little cancelling against a #6 or #7 SCB, even with a perfect hit.

I know I've seen some tests of this somewhere, but can't find them at the moment. I think it's something like 3x#2 railgun hits to completely cancel a #7 SCB, but don't hold me to that number. Just know that the larger the SCB is, the bigger the railgun you'll need and more hits you got to land to completely cancel it. With a #1, you will not even completely cancel a #4 or #5 on e.g. an FdL iirc, so your railgun is undersized for what you're up against imho.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Arguendo said:
There is a correlation between the size of SCB and the size of the Railgun.
A #1 railgun will do very little cancelling against a #6 or #7 SCB, even with a perfect hit.

I know I've seen some tests of this somewhere, but can't find them at the moment. I think it's something like 3x#2 railgun hits to completely cancel a #7 SCB, but don't hold me to that number. Just know that the larger the SCB is, the bigger the railgun you'll need and more hits you got to land to completely cancel it. With a #1, you will not even completely cancel a #4 or #5 on e.g. an FdL iirc, so your railgun is undersized for what you're up against imho.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I remember a thread about that, too and this confirms my fears that the c1 rails, although both feedback, are a bit on the small side.
@Arguendo do you have any idea how rail hits impact double banking?

Another problem is that rewatching the video my hit rate inside the 3s window was actually abysmal, so no wonder I didn't cancel a lot of banks.
Nothing to do with the size of the rails, more pebcak 😝
 
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Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Arguendo
Bigmaec said:
@Arguendo do you have any idea how rail hits impact double banking?
Click to expand...
Not off of the top of my head, no sorry. I know I've seen someone talk about it, but can't remember what the results of any tests were. I am sure someone has tested though.

Another problem is that rewatching the video my hit rate inside the 3s window was actually abysmal, so no wonder I didn't cancel a lot of banks.
Nothing to with the size of the rails, more pebcak 😝
Click to expand...
One of us! One of us! One of us!
😰
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
From what I heard and read, if you hit the double bank in the window they both get cancelled. The 1st 5 banks on my build are double banked at the same time, no waiting for the heatsink to start doing it's job. We could test it and also see how much the 2 size 1 rails actually cancel.

Edit: still want to test the PD malfunction thing too, once I can pay the accident fine from yesterday:ROFLMAO:
 

A C Ender

A C Ender
Bigmaec said:
Good question 🤷‍♂️

I'm using some phasing laser builds and lets just say while they are annoying as hell to enemies, fights take ages to end.

Lets compare it:

Two huge efficient plasma accelerators do 310 damage combined if both hit. (TLB/Dispersal are just utilities to mostly annoy your enemy)

Phasing reduces that damage by 12 % to 280 damage if both hit.
It also applies 10% of that reduced damage directly as absolute damage to the hull through shields, so 28 damage.

The hull of my Corvette has 4800 hull points absolute.

Doing 28 damage through shields everytime (100 shots) would roughly bring me to 50% hull.

I'm not sure if that's worth it, because on the other hand you reduce the damage output to bring the shields down by 30.
Against Pauls shield-cell-tank-build it would propably work.

I guess I need to test this, thank you @A C Ender 😝
Click to expand...
A thing to keep in note: The damage done by phasing is not reduced by pips in SYS or shield resistance. So while your two huge efficient PA do 310 damage -before pips and shield resistance-. So if you you assume that your enemy is using 4 pips in SYS that's a 60% damage reduction, making your PA do 124 damage. Let's ignore shield resistance (as I can't be bothered to calculate it, but it does affect 40% of your PA damage which isn't negligible). With phasing, you start out at 280 damage, and will do 112 damage to the enemy shield. Add in the phasing damage done to the hull, and you're at 140 damage, which is 13% more damage than your non-phasing 124. And this isn't even taking the resistances in account yet, further favouring the Phasing.

This naturally changes if you're meeting a pure hull tank, where Phasing is just worse. But let's be realistic: If you faced a pure hull tank on your corvette, would you really risk losing that even with phasing?
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
A C Ender said:
A thing to keep in note: The damage done by phasing is not reduced by pips in SYS or shield resistance. So while your two huge efficient PA do 310 damage -before pips and shield resistance-. So if you you assume that your enemy is using 4 pips in SYS that's a 60% damage reduction, making your PA do 124 damage. Let's ignore shield resistance (as I can't be bothered to calculate it, but it does affect 40% of your PA damage which isn't negligible). With phasing, you start out at 280 damage, and will do 112 damage to the enemy shield. Add in the phasing damage done to the hull, and you're at 140 damage, which is 13% more damage than your non-phasing 124. And this isn't even taking the resistances in account yet, further favouring the Phasing.

This naturally changes if you're meeting a pure hull tank, where Phasing is just worse. But let's be realistic: If you faced a pure hull tank on your corvette, would you really risk losing that even with phasing?
Click to expand...
I have an emissive pulse turret for that ;)
The last hull tanks I encountered didn't like that.
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
Bigmaec said:
I'm not sure if that's worth it, because on the other hand you reduce the damage output to bring the shields down by 30.
Against Pauls shield-cell-tank-build it would propably work.
Click to expand...

I still have 4600 hull with close to 40% resists under the shields. The hardness is only 65 compared to 70 on the Corvette, but idk if that makes a difference for phasing.

Edit: I think I need to try a different pacifier layout before I see which one I like more.
Stay tuned for round 4(?) of the age old question:

3tmwoi.jpg
 
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Bigmaec

Bigmaec

A C Ender

A C Ender
Paul Smith the 3rd said:
I still have 4600 hull with close to 40% resists under the shields. The hardness is only 65 compared to 70 on the Corvette, but idk if that makes a difference for phasing.

Edit: I think I need to try a different pacifier layout before I see which one I like more.
Stay tuned for round 4(?) of the age old question:

View attachment 166483
Click to expand...
Hardness make no difference for phasing: while your shield holds it does absolute damage to your hull and ignore hull hardness. Otherwise phasing Cytoscramblers would be useless. If you give me your raw shield numbers I can make a calculation for phasing Vs not
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
I think we answered the question which one is better and it's the one with the PAs or whoever has ammo for the big guns left. So I ditched the pacifiers for the PA load out again, by by sweet low distro draw and back to juggling the pips around.

This is my view of duel No4. I was surprised how much I use the gyro "mouse" of the steam controller.
 

A C Ender

A C Ender
Paul Smith the 3rd said:
I think we answered the question which one is better and it's the one with the PAs or whoever has ammo for the big guns left. So I ditched the pacifiers for the PA load out again, by by sweet low distro draw and back to juggling the pips around.

This is my view of duel No4. I was surprised how much I use the gyro "mouse" of the steam controller.
Click to expand...
On this topic, the APA beats out the regular PA (naturally assuming large). The Huge PA beat everything else in total damage beyond 20% resistance, before that huge (fixed) cannon beat it, assuming efficient PA and SR/OC cannon. That said, the pacifiers beat the huge PA in sustained DPS all the way to 70% resistance.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
A C Ender said:
On this topic, the APA beats out the regular PA (naturally assuming large). The Huge PA beat everything else in total damage beyond 20% resistance, before that huge (fixed) cannon beat it, assuming efficient PA and SR/OC cannon. That said, the pacifiers beat the huge PA in sustained DPS all the way to 70% resistance.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see the math for that, you have a link?
Can't believe a cannon beats a PA due to absolute damage and pacifiers are outdamaged in both fights above.
Not equal conditions, mind you, so I'm curious...
 
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