Joystick / HOTAS recommendation

[Zeeman]

Wow, such a fantastic selection of replies, thank you all very much! I have repped where I am able to

The one thing that makes me less keen on the warthog, is the lack of a z-axis on the stick itself, and I don't know how easy it will be to adjust to that from my TM T-Flight HOTAS. Otherwise the warthog is just awesome looking, and again I am attracted to it from the weight/metal construction. I often find myself bending the whole unit over when trying to battle, and thought that weight may be a complication in this quest?
...

So, here's the thing... Get yourself some rudder pedals. VKB T-rudder MKIII/IV are nice, well made, and super accurate. Once you've had pedals, you can't go back. You no longer involuntarily yaw under high pressure combat, and the extra range of motion translates to better precision and accuracy in flight - even with the gimped yaw in ED.

Now, you're considering a Warthog, so you must have a reasonable budget. The Warthog stick itself is brilliant, accurate, nice feel, the ergonomics are excellent, the metal handle feels fantastic, and the button layout is excellent, with plenty of buttons.

The throttle, also, is excellent... If you play flight sims. For the purposes of ED, the CH Pro throttle is a much better option. It feels quite... "loose", compared to the Warthog, but it's still quality stuff, dated, perhaps, but it'll last, and it has a near perfect button layout for ED - analog thumbstick for lateral/vertical thrusters included. It also has more buttons on the throttle than the Warthog throttle, making it easier to never actually take your hands off either stick or throttle.

This is a big thing in VR - where the only reason for letting go of the HOTAS is to type something.

Now, the TM FCS throttle also looks very good, I've not tried one yet, though the analog stick is probably located on the back of front of the throttle, and required your index finger to use it, which I feel is probably less accurate - but... Most people I've spoken to that went from CH Pro to FCS have said they get the hang of it pretty quick.

The only thing that stops me buying the FCS throttle this second, is that said thumbstick seems to be a bit... Flawed. Lots of reports of warranty replacements, and the need of huge dead zones to stop drift. I'm still trying to form an opinion on this, but have decided to hold out to see if the upcoming VKB throttle, or VPC throttle (thing in the league of the Warthog, and then go up a bit) will suit my needs. Ideally, a fighter jet throttle, with an analog thumbstick. I do play DCS as well (even though I'm just beginning to learn to fly), so I tend to switch my gear around a bit depending on aircraft, or if I'm flying ED.

Now, don't get me wrong, the Warthog throttle is excellent, I LOVE the feel of it, but it lacks an analog thumbtick (though there is a well placed hat if you're ok with on/off lateral thrust), and it doesn't have quite as many easy to reach buttons as the CH pro.

Just something to consider...

Z...

 

[Zeeman]

I too have problems with this question.

I use a 16000m with a Ch pro throttle

The throttle is great. The joystick is great when new, but it only lasts for a while before the buttons start to become dodgy.

So I would love to get a great solid joystick. But there is not one with a twist that exists. Yep the warthog is great, but it's not got twist, and when your used to flying your ship with it...

So at the moment since the 16000s are so cheap, I just replace

Seriously, it's *worth* going the pedals route. The VKB T-Rudder pedals are brilliant for the office chair type setup - as the pedals move in an up/down motion.

Now, if you absolutely, for whatever reason, can't/won't use pedals, VKB (from memory) will be releasing a twist kit for their Gunfighter, however, I'd be waiting for them to release it with the MCG first, as the current grip is based on a German WWII fighter, and is severely limited in buttons for use with ED.

Now, the Gladiator line does have twist, and is well priced, and from what I hear, a great stick for the money, but... I'd, again, be waiting for it have have the MCG as an option.

The VPC guys have an excellent stick in the Mongoos T-50, but I am unaware of any twist mechanism int he works.

Now, understand that whilst the Warthog is the daddy of the quality consumer joystick, there have been no updates, and what the likes of VKB and VPC are offering are incredibly engineered gimbals consisting of metal cams and springs, that are adjustable in many ways, so you can actually set tension and "smoothness" by changing cams and springs (included with the stick). This is seriously high quality stuff, designed by people who are truly passionate about their sims. It's basically the next level, hence the pricing.

With VPC, you can even keep using the Warthog grip, a sit uses the same pin configuration, and is compatible by design. VKB does also allow for the use of a Warthog grip, but an adapter is required, and some very basic electronic works is needed, along with taking the stick apart.

Z...

 

[Ozram]

OP, I have heard the Thrustmaster 4 is an upgrade from the X in terms of accuracy (can anyone confirm?) but frankly you have a heap of good options these days. There's the Thrustmaster T16000m FCS, the CH lineup (excellent functionality) and I suppose you could go full crazy and get the Warthog.

 

[CMDR Eryn Liamson]

I started off with a Logitech 3D Pro, then moved on to an X52. Then an X52 Pro after that died. Then another X52 after the Pro died. Then I gave up on Saitek and got a Warthog and love it!

 

[Ziljan]

Avoid Saitek like the plague. Logitech or no, the saitek acquisitions will take time to rectify.

I am using the Thrustmaster FCS. Pretty good, the centering on my unit is a bit inconsistent, but that can be fixed simply by unplugging it and plugging it back in. Great stick and throttle, even better price. Probably the most agile stick on the market. Would pick it over a Warthog for the price and the features.

 

[the100thmonkey]

In terms of sensor quality and response, my favourite stick (out of those I've used, obviously) is the Thrustmaster T16000.M. The sensor is just great, and the TARGET software allows you to program a response curve without having to use third party software.

The downside of the T16000.M is that it's a relatively light stick, so it can move during use, especially if you're the kind of guy who thrashes his joystick around vigorously. It's also a bit short on buttons on the stick itself, although this is addressed by using the FCS throttle part. The x52 and x56 have more usefully placed buttons on the stick, andcan both be mounted. There are a couple of holes on the stick and throttle bases that take an M6 thread bolt. I drilled holes in my desk (I don't use it for anything but gaming) and use my x52 Pro without it trying to flip over in combat. The sensor isn't as good as the Thrustmaster one, and it tends to develop a bit of wobble after a while, but this is easily addressed with a small deadzone, which can be set in-game. The x52 (I can't speak for the x56) requires a 3rd party curve editor to control sensitivity, in my experience, although the game is far from unplayable without it.

For me, the best combination is a 3DConnexion SpaceExplorer (a 3D mouse) on the left hand for thruster control and either the x52 or the T16000.M on the right. This gives full analogue control over 6DoF. Because I'm a spaceman. Flying a spaceship. In space.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

Use an x52pro for just over a year now, bought it 2nd hand and its still in great shape. Lots of buttons to tweak to your liking (though i could still use a few more). Still very accurate (sadly i am not) although it could maybe use a clean and oil somehwere around the joystick spring as pulling back i can feel it a little gritty.

Not sure how the x52's quality are now that logitech has taken over from madcatz but i guess i got lucky with an issue free build.

It also has the added bonus of being modelled in game too

 

[Clicker]

I've got one of these on the way. Looking forward to comparing with my Warthog...

Z...

Hello...this stick looks interesting although expensive...even better is the compatability between the "grip" and the "base" with the TMWarthog.

And then there's the desk mounts!!!
I've just recently acquired a TM Warthog, so the stick/base is not of immediate interest, however, the desk mounts certainly are. Considering the best option for these at present is the very expensive (but obviously most excellent) Monstertech.de ones.

Clicker

Edit: I take that back...the mounts are much cheaper than Monstertech.de ones, but the shipping is a killer and more than DOUBLES the cost (to NZ) so this option is now out!

 

[Susanna]

The thrustmaster T16000m FCS is excellent. Only problem with it FDEV still need to fix the camera suite rolling forwards bug that affects this hotas.

Edit. In reply to a post above. I bought some cheap matting that grips the desk. My hotas doesn't move on the desktop now.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00537Q9QY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also some foam clay to mold the joystick as I have small hands.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00752IOYU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Zeeman]

Damn, son. Can I have your Warthog?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! No.

I am in the unfortunate position of having two gaming rigs, as I live between two countries. The Warthog rig is staying in in one location, with the VKB rudder pedals and CH Pro throttle.

The other rig is going to be a cockpit in a coffee table type build, and the Warthog throttle, VPC stick and my Baur F3 pedals will be used in that. It's more aimed at DCS, though, if I manage to recover from my stupidly huge credit card debt from having to run two systems (But Darling, it's cheaper than golf...), I may get another CH Pro to use specifically for ED.

Z...

Hello...this stick looks interesting although expensive...even better is the compatability between the "grip" and the "base" with the TMWarthog.

And then there's the desk mounts!!!
I've just recently acquired a TM Warthog, so the stick/base is not of immediate interest, however, the desk mounts certainly are. Considering the best option for these at present is the very expensive (but obviously most excellent) Monstertech.de ones.

Clicker

Edit: I take that back...the mounts are much cheaper than Monstertech.de ones, but the shipping is a killer and more than DOUBLES the cost (to NZ) so this option is now out!

Actually... I seem to remember seeing something somewhere specifically for the Warthog, let me try and dig it up...

Z...

 

[Zeeman]

Avoid Saitek like the plague. Logitech or no, the saitek acquisitions will take time to rectify.

I am using the Thrustmaster FCS. Pretty good, the centering on my unit is a bit inconsistent, but that can be fixed simply by unplugging it and plugging it back in. Great stick and throttle, even better price. Probably the most agile stick on the market. Would pick it over a Warthog for the price and the features.

If only TM had redesigned the T16000M a touch, and put another hat or two on the stick, and ditched some of the bas buttons... It would have been *THE* set up for ED, no questions, especially at the price point.

Z...

 

[Ozram]

In terms of sensor quality and response, my favourite stick (out of those I've used, obviously) is the Thrustmaster T16000.M. The sensor is just great, and the TARGET software allows you to program a response curve without having to use third party software.

The downside of the T16000.M is that it's a relatively light stick, so it can move during use, especially if you're the kind of guy who thrashes his joystick around vigorously. It's also a bit short on buttons on the stick itself, although this is addressed by using the FCS throttle part. The x52 and x56 have more usefully placed buttons on the stick, andcan both be mounted. There are a couple of holes on the stick and throttle bases that take an M6 thread bolt. I drilled holes in my desk (I don't use it for anything but gaming) and use my x52 Pro without it trying to flip over in combat. The sensor isn't as good as the Thrustmaster one, and it tends to develop a bit of wobble after a while, but this is easily addressed with a small deadzone, which can be set in-game. The x52 (I can't speak for the x56) requires a 3rd party curve editor to control sensitivity, in my experience, although the game is far from unplayable without it.

For me, the best combination is a 3DConnexion SpaceExplorer (a 3D mouse) on the left hand for thruster control and either the x52 or the T16000.M on the right. This gives full analogue control over 6DoF. Because I'm a spaceman. Flying a spaceship. In space.

That 3D mouse is impressive. I presume you use the twist part for the throttle itself and all other movements for maneuvering thrusters? I would not have thought to pair it with a T16000m on account of the anemic button choices. Just visualising here, I'd have gone with a CH Fighterstick. That's full maneuvering controls you've got though... quite impressive. I'd never even heard of those so I had to look it up:

 

[Zeeman]

That 3D mouse is impressive. I presume you use the twist part for the throttle itself and all other movements for maneuvering thrusters? I would not have thought to pair it with a T16000m on account of the anemic button choices. Just visualising here, I'd have gone with a CH Fighterstick. That's full maneuvering controls you've got though... quite impressive. I'd never even heard of those so I had to look it up:
https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.net/competition_pics/pics/160/medium.jpg?1329821917

That looks interesting. I must check it out. Because... Science.

Z...

 

[Taranis Dekker]

I have a Warthog and haven't regretted it. The only thing it lacks is twist to yaw. 'Solid' doesn't even begin to describe it

I'd go along with exactly this sentiment. I replaced an X52 with a Warthog, and despite the cost, it was well worth it.

Green throttle lights are a tad annoying (for me), but you can run a start-up script to disable them completely if same applies.

Coupled with Logitech G910 keyboard and G502 mouse... games are awesome.

 

[Shanaeri]

I've owned and tried a few HOTAS's over the years but still have my X52 pro which is now approaching 3.

X55/6

Nice feel to the stick, but stiff throttle made it hard work and erratic to fly. It also had ghosting issues. Button placement seemed to be less comfortable and natural than my X52 pro.

Warthog/pedals

Lovely throttle action, joystick was heavy but smooth. I found the top secondary button placement less comfortable.

While it had loads of buttons these were of the 'toggle' nature. Now while I am sure I would have got used to it, I prefer the 'flip' type. So for example, to activate a shield cell or deploy landing gear in the warthog it required two switch activations (on then off) rather than just one in my X52 pro.

I had the full CH pedals too, but tbh I found them uncomfortable and much less precise than my twist yaw, it seemed to be an all or nothing.

Now I fully realise that after a while I could have got used to it.

I guess I am too used to my X52 Pro, but I really did want to give both the X55 and Warthog a go and spent many hours fiddling with it to get it right. , but I thought why bother. I could buy 3 X52 pro's for the same price as the warthog set up and tbh it didn't really add that much to my experience.

 

[Taranis Dekker]

Wow, such a fantastic selection of replies, thank you all very much! I have repped where I am able to

The one thing that makes me less keen on the warthog, is the lack of a z-axis on the stick itself, and I don't know how easy it will be to adjust to that from my TM T-Flight HOTAS. Otherwise the warthog is just awesome looking, and again I am attracted to it from the weight/metal construction. I often find myself bending the whole unit over when trying to battle, and thought that weight may be a complication in this quest?

I did miss the twist at first, so I remapped it to the top hat stick on the main joystick (the grey hat). It puts a loss less strain on the wrist than a twist does, and you get used to it. I was going to get pedals, but never got around to it.

 

[Ozram]

I did miss the twist at first, so I remapped it to the top hat stick on the main joystick (the grey hat). It puts a loss less strain on the wrist than a twist does, and you get used to it. I was going to get pedals, but never got around to it.

Yeah I also originally went from a twist stick (Logitech E3D pro, then T16000m) to non twist (CH Fighterstick). It took a little adjusting but now I find twist just interferes with fine control of pitch and roll. I have yaw on the ch ministick. Pedals would be a better place, but I don't have any.

 

[the100thmonkey]

That 3D mouse is impressive. I presume you use the twist part for the throttle itself and all other movements for maneuvering thrusters? I would not have thought to pair it with a T16000m on account of the anemic button choices. Just visualising here, I'd have gone with a CH Fighterstick. That's full maneuvering controls you've got though... quite impressive. I'd never even heard of those so I had to look it up:
https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.net/competition_pics/pics/160/medium.jpg?1329821917

I use the stick for thrusters. I have throttle settings on the left column of buttons - 0%, 50%, 75% and 100%. Reverse is accomplished by pulling the stick back - thrusters override throttle settings. I use the "Fit" button (bottom right) and "2D" button (the central button on the right-hand cluster) as shift keys for the T16000, and a couple of the base keys on the stick for functions like landing gear, etc. where it's not critical to have them at my fingertips. It works well enough!

 

[Clicker]

I've owned and tried a few HOTAS's over the years but still have my X52 pro which is now approaching 3.

X55/6

Nice feel to the stick, but stiff throttle made it hard work and erratic to fly. It also had ghosting issues. Button placement seemed to be less comfortable and natural than my X52 pro.

Warthog/pedals

Lovely throttle action, joystick was heavy but smooth. I found the top secondary button placement less comfortable.

While it had loads of buttons these were of the 'toggle' nature. Now while I am sure I would have got used to it, I prefer the 'flip' type. So for example, to activate a shield cell or deploy landing gear in the warthog it required two switch activations (on then off) rather than just one in my X52 pro.

I had the full CH pedals too, but tbh I found them uncomfortable and much less precise than my twist yaw, it seemed to be an all or nothing.

Now I fully realise that after a while I could have got used to it.

I guess I am too used to my X52 Pro, but I really did want to give both the X55 and Warthog a go and spent many hours fiddling with it to get it right. , but I thought why bother. I could buy 3 X52 pro's for the same price as the warthog set up and tbh it didn't really add that much to my experience.

I've had 2x X-55s since Beta.
The first still works but after 2 years and a 1000 hours has glitches and the internal wiring in the throttle is not broken, but looks like it'll break any minute.
The second only has about 200 hours and still good as new.

Having said that, the TM Warthog was on special recently here in NZ @ 30% off and I couldn't resist.

In essence...if the X55 had the build quality of the TM Warthog and was the same price as, say the X52Pro...it'd be...hands down the ONLY choice to make for a HOTAS for ED.

Clicker

 

[Aashenfox]

I don't blame people for saying to avoid the X52 pro (it's what I use by the way), the (build) quality is poor compared to others at the same pricepoint, however... As long as it is working, it is a really great joystick. Mine is going on 4 years now, I use the hats for navigating menus in elite and I have no noticeable wear yet. It seems you can get lucky, BUT, I will admit I am one of those people who is very light on his equipment, almost every second hand item I move on is sold in 'like new' condition, even mobile phones, what can I say? I look after my stuff. The Saitek would fall apart in a few weeks in the hands of some gamers I've met over the years, fortunately, they aren't the type to play sim games anyway, but if you are one of those who is respectful of technology, it will last you enough years to justify the price, I believe. The throttle is good and has an adjustable clutch, which is very useful, but not perfect, twist for yaw is very accurate, two hats on stick, one on throttle is ideal. I wish I had more buttons on the throttle but that is solved by a gameboard or even a usb numpad. In the unlikely event that it should give up the ghost any time soon, I'll be getting a T.16000, though I wish it looked less like an Action Man toy.