Known Issues with the 3.3.02 BGS (orig. AEDC Discord)

Is there something we can do to make FDev look at it and fix it, prioritize it little more?
Something like a simple reddit post where we complain about the amount of bugs being unbearable, people leaving the game and Frontier not communicating whatsoever. If we get every member of every BGS group to upvote it, maybe we'll get somewhere.
Dunno I just really want the BGS to get fixed and don't know what else to do to help it. Frontier obviously ignores bug report. The prove is Full System Statistic being crash to desktop button for 3 days now and FDev not fixing it.
 
So, erm, here's a (possibly) controversial opinion...

I hate to say it but, when all this stuff gets fixed the BGS should probably be reset again.
Uh -obviously controversial point is obviously controversial - so I won't take you up on it.
But What do you mean: "reset AGAIN"?

I thought we always "played it as it lies" and moved forward.
When did a reset ever happen before?
 
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Investment state lasting 33 days.
Investment's now an economic state above Boom, rather than the expansion-related state it used to be. Economic, security and conflict states can now all coexist for a single faction. You could for example be in Investment, Civil Liberty and a War at the same time, all in one system.

Investment should only be benefitting you by providing more lucrative missions. After the last BGS 'patch' a few days ago we may now start to see those positive states decay with time... or it may require negative actions, we're not sure yet.
 
Is there something we can do to make FDev look at it and fix it, prioritize it little more?
Something like a simple reddit post where we complain about the amount of bugs being unbearable, people leaving the game and Frontier not communicating whatsoever. If we get every member of every BGS group to upvote it, maybe we'll get somewhere.
Dunno I just really want the BGS to get fixed and don't know what else to do to help it. Frontier obviously ignores bug report. The prove is Full System Statistic being crash to desktop button for 3 days now and FDev not fixing it.
What more do you want than this?


Hey all,

Thank you all of your continued patience and feedback whilst we continue to tune the balancing of the faction simulation after Chapter Four, we are reading all of your feedback and acting upon it where we can.

We're happy with the galaxy's overall results from the specific balancing changes from last week's 3.3.02 update, but that was just one of many steps we've taken since the Chapter Four release as part of our on-going balancing process.

Letting us know that you're not seeing the expected results after Saturday's tick from your actions is useful feedback, but we need specific information to enable us to look into your particular circumstances.

To look at an unexpected faction result, such as "We pushed a lot of +inf% to Faction A through missions, bounties & trading, Faction B and C had a bit of +inf% in the same system from bounties, so Faction A didn't increase as much as we'd expect", as a minimum we need to know:
- the faction
- the starsystem
- the approximate date when you saw the unexpected result

In addition, to consider your feedback when we're investigating the balance of particular actions, such as a mission result affecting an unexpected faction, or some exploration data sales not having a positive effect then we'd also need:
- all of the above AND
- your commander name or names
- the approximate date / time or location of your actions

To make sure we can achieve the right balance, and make the best gameplay experience for everyone, when reporting on this issue please reply to this thread with a comment containing the specific information listed above.


Thanks!
 
We've found that doing massacre missions for our faction has been counting against us, we stopped doing them about 5 days ago and things have started to move up again.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Uh -obviously controversial point is obviously controversial - so I won't take you up on it.
But What do you mean: "reset AGAIN"?

I thought we always "played it as it lies" and moved forward.
When did a reset ever happen before?
The BGS was reset and rolled back to its before the update condition once before - PP update from memory
 
I thought we always "played it as it lies" and moved forward.
When did a reset ever happen before?
As Jane says, there was a 1 day rollback after one update (you can trace it back to the patch notes etc from info in this article, I'm not doing it again, it was 1 day). Not a multi-month rollback like Stealthie & some others have proposed. And ofc there is zero point in a rollback until they fix the issues.

Most modern s/w development works on roll-forward: so if you break something you patch it back to a working state, never go back!
 
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Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
From our side of the equation I think there are 3 fundamental issues with the BGS, one of which has been fixed.

1. State constipation (fixed)
2. Influence effects being incorrectly applied.
3. State-related restrictions on which BGS activities are effective being wrongly applied, either through some sort of persistence from previous states or incorrectly being applied from other factions/systems.
 
From our monitoring, it appears that doing nothing is behaving more like we would expect (No ETAs. No Guarantees).
Systems with little active traffic (nobody trying to effect the BGS) are no longer showing massive swings for minor factions or terminal decline for the controlling faction.

That makes no promises at all for actually doing something.
 
From our side of the equation I think there are 3 fundamental issues with the BGS, one of which has been fixed.

1. State constipation (fixed)
2. Influence effects being incorrectly applied.
3. State-related restrictions on which BGS activities are effective being wrongly applied, either through some sort of persistence from previous states or incorrectly being applied from other factions/systems.
Broadly speaking I agree. No. 2, however covers, a multitude of sins! :)

In relation to no 3, my strong suspicion is that there are new, unspecified, 3.3 mechanics relating to states that either modify or exclude the influence effects of certain actions - and this is what is being balanced. The problem being that the new system is interacting with the bugs giving crazy results. This is of course only a theory peering into the black box from outside.

It would seem obvious, at least from our perspective and we dont have all the data, that the first step is to squish the bugs - then balance. It is our fervent hope that the stated balancing also incorporates the necessary bug squishing.
 
It would seem obvious, at least from our perspective and we dont have all the data, that the first step is to squish the bugs - then balance. It is our fervent hope that the stated balancing also incorporates the necessary bug squishing.
That's what worries me - things are obviously completely out of whack, but they describe it as balancing issues.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
That's what worries me - things are obviously completely out of whack, but they describe it as balancing issues.
I guess you could call replacing -1 with 1 (or vice versa) in code is balancing - that is what need to happen in a lot of cases
 
I see you mention Biowaste / outbreaks - here's a bug I raised: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/473743-Biowaste-Missions-don-t-seem-to-be-causing-Outbreaks.

Must say that if you can find the right system there are enough Biowaste missions to keep you busy, but it doesn't seem a worthwhile occupation as I got no outbreaks. Hopefully there's enough detail in the ticket for them to look at.
They said in the livestreams prior to 3.3 that Outbreak would be random, and somewhat rare. I don't think that is a bug. You are not supposed to be able to trigger it.
 
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Hey everybody (and any FD staff checking in),

We were chatting in our Discord earlier today, and this resulted in a list of bugs with the current BGS as far as we know. This seemed wise to share with all of the BGS community, and may be an easy list for FD to work from, should they come across this thread.

Edit (sunday): there is now a bit of duplication in the bugs, and some bugs are in there in slightly different wording, or highlighting a different aspect. For instance, it's pretty clear that all "negative" actions are positive at this point in time.

Known Issues with the 3.3.02 BGS


  • Explo data not working for inf (inconsistent results)
  • Trade not working for inf (inconsistent results)
  • Mining not working for inf (inconsistent results)
  • Assassination/Murder/Pirate missions give inf to the victim
  • Wars/Elections with factions on different inf
  • Factions gaining inf during elections
  • Inexplicable influence drops for ruling factions
  • Smuggling gives benefit to non-anarchist station owner
  • Wars being lost while working hard for the losing faction (without opposition)
  • Possibly all negative influence effects not working, or all missions targeting factions give positive influence, economic, security or conflict benefits to the target faction, leading to no Famines or Bust throughout the galaxy, and minimal Outbreak
  • Installations messing up scenario factions and rewards horribly
  • Assassination targets still fail to have Mission Target tag sometimes
  • Massacre missions can target own faction
  • CZ NPCs fail to spawn
  • Salvage/assassinations sometimes don't have any signal to find with FSS - this is for the meet contact in other system wrinkle, have to scan nav bacon for the thingy to trigger. The target appears in system, even jumps into other USS where you are, but its not tagged as target
  • Murder broken/doesn't affect influence or conflict states
  • Some conflicts seemingly broken and all actions benefit wrong side
  • Inf does weird stuff while there are multiple conflicts in one system
  • Wartime massacre missions targeting the source faction
  • salvage missions gives "red" extra rep and increased inf to the faction the cargo was salvaged from
  • Installation scenarios give the same faction on both sides, while not being the owner of the installation
If you have more, post them below, and I'll add them to the list

  • Some factions lose influence instead of gaining it.
  • During a war, a faction offer massacre against its own npcs
  • During conflict, factions can gain/lose 2 positions (i.e. from Draw to Victory) in a single BGS tick. When this happens the faction status summary counts each jump as a day, so you go from 1 day of domination to 3 days of domination
  • negative trading is interpreted as positive actions for station owner now
  • Some systems seems also to be stucked at particular influence threshold, fluctuating by 3-4% despite all kind of positive and negative actions done (i.e. 10 Kappa Pegasi). This in particular seems to be partially related to bigger population systems (Kammato suffers this issue occasionally)
  • In CZ the defeat of a capital ship cause the victory bars to disappear, resulting in neverending battle
  • we did a test on untra-quiet systems [ones that have not changed influence in the last 10+ days] we did 10 points in missions of various types (but not shopping missions) so black box, surface scans, data delivery, assassination etc. In each system the factions the mission were done for FELL in influence
  • in War fighting for our side had either no, or a negative effect for the faction. We completed around 40 scenarios and made around 40 combat bond drops on day 1 of the war and lost it, despite moving our security slider a long way and the oppositions not moving at all. We won the war using bounties and left the CZ completely alone
  • biowaste mission delivery from agriculture are extremely rare/ non existent
  • CZ : killing SLF has same impat than killing a player
  • The PlayerJournal does not contain the correct value for Influence in the MissionComplete Event. It shows '+++++' every time
  • 10,000 commanders dropping data and mined goods for a CG 5kLY out is tanking the controlling faction
  • no activities seems to lower the economy slider
  • War won with Total Victory. Inf gained for winning totaled a 1% gap
  • two more non-functional wars now - plenty of points in, our slider moving and a draw declared
  • wrong mission types spawning
  • Influence in my home system is all over the place, the factions have been gaining/losing influence at such a pace that it has been a perpetual cycle of (civil) wars. Despite all this the controlling faction has been in Investment and Civil Liberty for ages
  • Biowaste Missions don't seem to be causing Outbreaks
Wow! Just Wow!

Does FDev really need it's nose rubbed in this before it gets the hint to start fixing this fuster cluck? I've given up playing the BGS now because it is utterly incoherent.

And you are looking to charge us money for downloadable content consisting of bugs and other garbage like Beyond's BGS nonsense?
Is there ANY reason to believe future professionalism will arise from this current - still unresolved - shtstorm?
 
Wow! Just Wow!

Does FDev really need it's nose rubbed in this before it gets the hint to start fixing this fuster cluck? I've given up playing the BGS now because it is utterly incoherent.

And you are looking to charge us money for downloadable content consisting of bugs and other garbage like Beyond's BGS nonsense?
Is there ANY reason to believe future professionalism will arise from this current - still unresolved - shtstorm?
Woah there, the bugs just need to be squished and we will then have a workable platform.
 
Like hows todays BGS patch notes might as well have said "Fixed some things"

(Sorry to be so negative, but my hat is particularly dirty. It will take some washing before it returns to its previously luminous white)
 
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