General / Off-Topic Let's Have A Debate: To Be, Or Not To Be Vegan? That Is The Question ...

Sounds like it would be drastically more difficult and more expensive to actualize than whatever measures would be required to reduce the number of refugees and migrants at the source, by not ignoring problems that occur there until they turn into disasters.
Indeed though I think the expense would be the least of our concerns at that point. Hope I don't live to see that decision taken.
 
I am not vegan, or even vegetarian, nor will I ever be. Have even been to a number of slaughterhouses where cows, pigs and chickens go to eventually end up on your plate. It ain't pretty, and there is no way I would want to work in such places, but I still eat what they produce.

I believe that those that chose to be vegetarian, or vegan, are doing it from a moral standpoint. That is fine, it is their choice, just not mine. That being said, you come over to my place, I am not catering for you as a vegan/vegetarian, just as I wouldn't expect to be catered as a carnivore (omnivore) at your place.
 
But then again, eating meat won't exclude you from indirectly killing quite a fair bit of plants, as a matter of fact, you are very likely killing more plants by eating meat than otherwise because of the thermodinamic losses implicated in leveling up the trophic levels (and this is the reason why eating humans and any other carnivores is crazy inefficient), IOW, if plants do indeed feel pain, eating them instead of meat remains a better choice (if that's your concern).

Absolutely, but i specifically pointed it out at the end of my last post :)
I kill other life to sustain my own (food-wise), just like anyone else. I'm even the lazy type who buys the already slaughtered from a Supermarket, instead of hunting it myself.

Killing life in order to sustain life - that sucks. But i guess i never really thought about it. This is what we do, isn't it?
Is all life based on this? Taking one life to sustain another?
Is that a fundamental principle of life?

I think this hits the nerve as close as it gets.
Only when we discover synthetic food production, and even that will have its downsides, this circle will be broken.
Anywhere you look, whether in nature or society, sustaining life means killing other life in order to sustain your own DNS and eventually pass it on.
Survival of the fittest, that's the rule of nature. For some reason we humans have gained the ability to at least think of the philosophy of it.
We can never be sure, if we are the only species with this ability, as we define our communication solely on language.


As Gregg points out, you don't have to consume the entire plant if you only consume pieces of it, therefore you do not have to completely kill an organism if you're a vegetarian. I eat eggs and cheese, and those items are also just pieces of/derivatives of organisms. You cannot do the same if you eat meat, though. (Until we get lab grown meat cheap & tasty at least).

Very good point, imo.
Though i would exclude eggs, as they are essentially a life in the making. Milk on the other hand is specifically produced to feed Offspring with.

I find this thread ironic as I am a cannibal pirate slaver in game. The Kumo Crew think that cannibalism is the answer in that it recycles excess useless humans into nutritious protein to nourish the able part of society. If you don't want to be considered a burger in waiting you push yourself to excel. Its frankly win win- less humans means less impact on the galaxy, society has a drive to improve and its always BBQ time.

As weird as it sounds, but me, speaking only for myself, of course, i love you bringing in this roleplay perspective.
 
Let's Have A Debate
...
This is just for fun, don't take it too serious.
It's all fun and games until you find out you have a heart condition. This has made me much more "vegan" than I used to be, though more for my health than any moral obligation to animals. That said, I was never a fan of "factory" meat, and living in farm country means I can could eat cow & chicken that happily grazed alongside the roads I travel rather than McD cattle / chicken / whatever raised in horrendous conditions.
 
It's all fun and games until you find out you have a heart condition. This has made me much more "vegan" than I used to be, though more for my health than any moral obligation to animals. That said, I was never a fan of "factory" meat, and living in farm country means I can could eat cow & chicken that happily grazed alongside the roads I travel rather than McD cattle / chicken / whatever raised in horrendous conditions.

Any damage I've done to my heart was done in the 80s and 90s when I was gobbling down all those Oreos before it was widely known how deadly transfats where. That wasn't even an animal product either, it was partially hydrogenated cottonseed and soybean oil!

Anyway, I've dramatically reduced my red meat consumption over the years, but I eat a fair bit of pork and a lot of chicken and low-mercury fish, which are all generally healthier and more sustainable.
 
It's all fun and games until you find out you have a heart condition. This has made me much more "vegan" than I used to be, though more for my health than any moral obligation to animals. That said, I was never a fan of "factory" meat, and living in farm country means I can could eat cow & chicken that happily grazed alongside the roads I travel rather than McD cattle / chicken / whatever raised in horrendous conditions.
I fully understand the need to change your diet for health reasons. I recently had it confirmed that I have diverticular, and that means I have to try to change my diet. Still not giving up meat though :p
 
Scarry article how vegan almost ruined this womens life:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7072647/VIRPI-MIKKONEN-admits-vegan-diet-ruined-health-brought-early-menopause.html#reader-comments

Also not sure why Menopause is a bad thing, but body is a complicated mechanism i seems
Veganism comes with significant risks, loss of fertility and other health issues amongst them. Women are particularly susceptible with dangerous pseudoscience appearing in any attempt to research diet. Malnutrition is more frequent among vegans, in women this results in disruption to their hormone cycle resulting ultimately in loss of fertility.
When applied to babies there have been cases where children have actually died due to being fed on vegan alternatives to milk. The same is true for pets that have been put on vegan diets with a number of animal cruelty cases as a result.
 
Movie AI never really make sense, they always rely on computers developing emotions. If we did have an AI it would view the world via probabilities and be able to relocate to inhospitable regions where biological life wouldn't bother it.
As for aliens, kinda depends on the biochemistry.
 
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I am fine with people being vegan. I tend to eat relatively little meat myself. I have not eaten meat for several days now. I don't think about it. Sometimes I feel like eating meat, sometimes I don't.

I am a typical modern day hypocrite. If I had to kill and slaughter animals myself to get meat I don't think I would do so.
When I capture a mouse in a mousetrap I take the trouble to take it to the woods and set it free. This morning I picked up a snail that was on the road and put it in a safer place.
And sometimes I like to eat a red bloody steak. It is what it is.

Beings consume other beings for their energy. That is how nature works. I don't fight against it, but I do admire principled people who stand by their decision to only eat vegan.
 
Scarry article how vegan almost ruined this womens life:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7072647/VIRPI-MIKKONEN-admits-vegan-diet-ruined-health-brought-early-menopause.html#reader-comments

Also not sure why Menopause is a bad thing, but body is a complicated mechanism i seems.

Also this is horrible too.
Poor guy :cautious:

I'm not exactly sure the daily mail constitutes a good source, and yes, you can wreck yourself by being vegan, if you will depends on your health (I recall hearing of a syndrome that inhibited the production of a protein forcing its victims to eat meat) but more importantly what you eat, I can become vegan by only eating chips and cola. Point in case, you can adversely affect your health with any diet.
 
Veganism comes with significant risks, loss of fertility and other health issues amongst them. Women are particularly susceptible with dangerous pseudoscience appearing in any attempt to research diet. Malnutrition is more frequent among vegans, in women this results in disruption to their hormone cycle resulting ultimately in loss of fertility.
When applied to babies there have been cases where children have actually died due to being fed on vegan alternatives to milk. The same is true for pets that have been put on vegan diets with a number of animal cruelty cases as a result.

Aren't babies supposed to be fed human milk?
 
It's all fun and games until you find out you have a heart condition. This has made me much more "vegan" than I used to be, though more for my health than any moral obligation to animals.

I had a 46% drop in triglyceride levels after switching to a high fat diet (mostly animal fats).

+ a 28% increase in HDL.

No changes to exercise levels, didn't give up smoking or anything like that, just a switch to LCHF.

Still have the pathology reports around somewhere.
 
Being vegan for philosophical or moral reasons is pretty naive and self limiting. But with that said, balance in all things is important and the educated use of vegetarian/vegan menus and the limiting of red meat can do much for a person's overall health and well being.

As a certified meat eater, I do believe that society striving for the humane treatment of harvested animals should always be at the top of our list.
 
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