Let's Talk About The FDL...

[Alexander the Grape]

Largely agree.

I do think that hull tanking is a slightly flawed concept as it stands because of packhounds will effectively end a fight of a hull tanking ship due to the removal of its weapons, which hurts the FAS and some other interesting builds.

Yeah the big problem with hulltanking is that it has a ridiculous amounts of hard counters (seekers/packhounds, Pen rails, Hi yield shells) that are near impossible to nullify, whereas shieldtanking has only useless/easily avoided counters (phasing, torps, mines).

PDT and ECM needs a big buff for sure

 

[fruitbat]

Maybe.. I dunno, I like those ships the way they are. I would like to see two more ships really on par with the FdL, maybe some different slots, but really similar. I think it would take a few balance passes to get it right, but we could handle that. What I don't want is to see every ship in the game buffed or nerfed until they're all equal. The FdL is the TOP (fighter flight profile) combat ship. Just like the Cutter is the TOP trade ship. And the 'conda is the TOP jump range. There are lots of bests, but since combat is PVP, it makes sense to have a few ships that are peers so that there can be some variety instead of everyone flying FdLs. Personally I like flying fighters, so the FdL is my go-to combat ship. I have a 'conda and a Corvette that have bigger shields and more DPS but I don't really enjoy flying them.

I think we largely agree.

I don't want every ship balanced at all. Ignoring the big 3 for a moment, what i would like to see is more effective options for the tier of ships below, the FDL, FAS, Dropship, Gunship, Clipper and Python. Individual advantages that can be exploited by a good pilot to be effective.

We almost have it already, Clipper with speed, FAS hull tanking and FDL with shields. But as it stands at the moment, i at least believe is that the FDL's relative advantage against its peers outstrips all the others which stifles variation.

Having more ships which can have a 'meta build' which can be utilised by different styles of good flying/fighting can only be more interesting can't it?

Yeah the big problem with hulltanking is that it has a ridiculous amounts of hard counters (seekers/packhounds, Pen rails, Hi yield shells) that are near impossible to nullify, whereas shieldtanking has only useless/easily avoided counters (phasing, torps, mines).

PDT and ECM needs a big buff for sure

Agreed.

 

[Strangepork]

Because we haven't whined about it recently. Lol

I had this theory that could put the FDL back in to its true bounty hunter role.
Currently it's jump range, and fuel tank, even engineered, is barely enough to catch up anything, and with just 3 jumps worth of fuel, it's makes quite the terrible bounty hunter, and more just a Mini Corvette/In system fighter. Which is fine, of the ships description didn't say it was a Luxury Bounty Hunter ship. Lol

Anyhoo, so let's do some balancing, because just sticking in a 5A FSD would break it, and it probably would lack the fuel for even 1 jump. Lol

First thing I'd do of course, is put in the 5A FSD. That'd give an unengineered battle/travel FDL (guns, full armour fuel scoop, Interdictor, shields, SCBs, boosters, etc), a jump range of around 22~ly, according to coriolis. (If you artificially inflate the 4A FSD optimal mass to 1050, and increase the FSD mass to match a 5A).

Now, that's a bit too good, so I'd also reduce the power plant back down to a 5A, like it used to be.
This would either force you to make tough decisions on what to equip, or overcharge the power plant, and deal with the heat.
Then to deal with the additional fuel usage, which I'm just guessing at, I'd install a 4C 16t tank, so you can actually cover some distance, but probably not much more.

So, what would you think to those changes?

Here's my theory crafted FDL, with a basic weapons loadout.
Theory FDL
I used the sensors to artificially at 8t to simulate the fuel tank being 8t bigger.
Some of the power figures will be off, because I didn't mess with those.

Of course, they could just change the ship description to match it's heavy fighter role instead. Lol

Discuss!

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Bounty hunting is instanced, no real pvp bounty hunting is possible, it's the game.

 

[jonesskill]

An FDL MkII or something would work well.

I'd suggest losing the huge hardpoint on the MkII, for a large. And increase the fuel tank to a 32t, but use the rest of what I suggested in my OP.
And change the cockpit. I hate the FDL cockpit. I want it central . Maybe even a single seater to make room for the larger FSD and fuel tank..?

Then it loses some punch, but gains a huge range increase to fulfill the bounty hunter role. It'd still be lethal with 4xC2 and 1xC3.

Vette is a FDL MKII, another "combat focused ship" that are worse than their "multi purpose" competitors;

I'ts the same problem in those 2 cases: Better agility (turn faster) and worst everything.

 

[thirstyfish]

Fuel and jump issues are easily solved. Add a fuel tank into the class 2 and class 1 slots, and then so some engineering on the FSD. My FDL gets nearly 20 ly per jump with only a moderate G4 roll. Now, my FDL is a bit lighter than most, as I don't have the military armor on mine, but that is personal taste. I like my 6A powerplant, otherwise the FDL cooks itself by just firing some pulse lasers.

 

[duckofdeath]

I have to agree with anyone saying the FDL is already too powerful as it is. Adding jump range to its speed and agility would make most other ships obsolete.
Personally I don't even get why we got the size 6 power plant. It was hard to work on with the size 5 plant, but it did have enough power and heat management already.
The lateral steering buff it got was also uncalled for, I think. All they did was turn an already good combat ship into an even better combat ship.
The point of the game is to make you compromise, I think? If your need is long jump range, I think the compromise is you having to look for other ships? I mean, the one your supposedly hunting who is out jumping you is clearly in something different.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I just realised something...

There are actually quite a few ships that have, quite frankly, ridiculous power plants.

The Python and it's ability to install a Class 7 power plant. The Anaconda and its Class 8, etc.

It kinda feels like FD have let us "have it all" in terms of what we can power in a single ship, especially if you throw engineering in to the mix.

I'm a bit of a believer in that no ship, no matter its size, should be able to run a tanky and high damage setup at the same time.
You should have it pick one or the other, or compromise somewhere in the middle.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

The FAS is OK cos it can hulltank super well. Similarly the clipper can hulltank, has access to c7 bi weaves and has a niche due to speed.

I do agree that the Python, Dropship and Gunship could use more U slots. The Python because it needs them to counteract its low speed and shield strength, and the Gunship and Dropship as a way to make them comparable to the FAS. In addition, a number of small ships (most notably the Viper III/IV and Cobra III badly need another 2 U slots.

The downside is that U slots are hard-baked into the models. Maybe add double U slots where some ships can just have 2 modules in the same visual slot?

Alternatively, just nerf Shield Boosters and buff base shields so that U slots don't entirely determine a ship's viability

The Cobra MK.IV has 2 additional utility slots on the top side that are not used

 

[Truesilver]

I just realised something...

There are actually quite a few ships that have, quite frankly, ridiculous power plants.

The Python and it's ability to install a Class 7 power plant. The Anaconda and its Class 8, etc.

It kinda feels like FD have let us "have it all" in terms of what we can power in a single ship, especially if you throw engineering in to the mix.

I'm a bit of a believer in that no ship, no matter its size, should be able to run a tanky and high damage setup at the same time.
You should have it pick one or the other, or compromise somewhere in the middle.

Actually, I disagree here - the Python and the Anaconda were the only significant ships in the early (Season 1) game with 'have it all' power and they were by a massive margin the most expensive ships in the game, plus were and are pitifully slow. The FdL and Vulture had no power, the Clipper had power but no base shield.

Basically our reward for the (at the time) glacially slow credit grind was to be able to power all our stuff once we finally could afford the A-ranked powerplant (I had my Annie for several weeks before I could buy that bad boy).

But these ships' speed etc provided the necessary counter-balance.

The decision to give Ferdie, with its high shield multiplier and high speed, acceleration and lateral thrust, a bloated powerplant, threw balance out of the window. The FdL has become a high-speed, high-manoeuvrability base shield tank, which doesn't really work in ED unless all you want is the "I win" button.