or loss of future customers being wary of buying their products
News Lifetime Expansion Pass Holders - Update!
- Thread starter Will Flanagan
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or loss of future customers being wary of buying their products
I think you might have learned the wrong lesson. Credibility suggests you believe FD made a set of promises, and then chooses to either do it or not. More accurate is that they pitch an idea with various layers, and each next layer is less likely to materialize than the previous. Buying the original LEP was basically just a way of saying:"I am pretty sure at least one layer will materialize, and I like the plan, so here is some money from me to help you with it."
It is not a KS where they demo a prototype and just need money for mass production. This is a 'lets see how far we can go!' endeavor, and they can go any which way. With these kinds of projects, barring fraud or some such, it is all about allowing creative people to make a solid effort; nothing more or less. Which is why I personally start by asking whether a company really needs my money to give it a solid punt. With the original ED LEP, yes. Going forward I feel FD has grown to the point they can just self-fund new products and take on the risks themselves. For the same reason I dont buy EA Season Passes or some such.
So from my perspective, you helped start this project, regardless of where it may end eventually. Which is cool!
From a purely financial perspective it is just a gamble, and a rather low-stakes one at that. When you look at how much ED + Horizon cost with and without LEP, and divide that difference by the numbers of hours played, it is insignificant. If FD releases space legs and atmo as two separate full-cost DLC it will still be (fractions of) cents per hour. To me that isn't really something to get very excited over.I think you might have learned the wrong lesson. Credibility suggests you believe FD made a set of promises, and then chooses to either do it or not. More accurate is that they pitch an idea with various layers, and each next layer is less likely to materialize than the previous. Buying the original LEP was basically just a way of saying:"I am pretty sure at least one layer will materialize, and I like the plan, so here is some money from me to help you with it."
It is not a KS where they demo a prototype and just need money for mass production. This is a 'lets see how far we can go!' endeavor, and they can go any which way. With these kinds of projects, barring fraud or some such, it is all about allowing creative people to make a solid effort; nothing more or less. Which is why I personally start by asking whether a company really needs my money to give it a solid punt. With the original ED LEP, yes. Going forward I feel FD has grown to the point they can just self-fund new products and take on the risks themselves. For the same reason I dont buy EA Season Passes or some such.
So from my perspective, you helped start this project, regardless of where it may end eventually. Which is cool!
Agreed. I am disappointed by FDev and their actions though, I thought they were better than that.
Live and learn though, no loss of sleep on my part.
Yeah, it's their fault for trusting Frontier's word more than a coin toss.
That is disingenuous of you. If you see a pitch for a game yet to be developed, and buy a 'discount' on presumably multiple DLCs, price unknown, all un-announced with no estimated year or decade of deliver: you are gambling. You may have high hopes, but it is still a gamble. And if you sincerely do not understand that is a gamble, I recommend hiring someone to manage your finances.
I find it frustrating how little FDev have communicated on this issue. To offer the choice between one DLC or all DLCs automatically implies there will be more DLCs to come, not that there may be more DLCs to come.Yeah, it's their fault for trusting Frontier's word more than a coin toss.
They have lost considerably more than the £80-£85 from my unused LEP value in cosmetic sales, all because they won't talk about it proactively and I feel I've had to chase them for info every time.
Shall I give a little spoiler?
FD doesnt know the future.
They do, however, know that everything they say they want to do will be taken as a promise, and every time they cant deliver people will bring out the pitch forks. This topic is the perfect example. There was a DLC (Horizons). There was a 'free' one (Beyond). They are working on the next one (already communicated). They are not going to communicate about possible DLCs in 2022 or later because they cannot possibly have any reasonable guarantee they can fully deliver any specific aspect. When they are confident something will work, they'll let us know.
And that is the kind of uncertainty people will just have to learn to deal with, really. They said they wanted to do a number of things, they did some of them, they are currently working on some more stuff, and beyond that is anyone's guess.
It's not a very good way of keeping hold of your player base/community though is it? It may be good business and good for their shareholders, so that's ok then.
They can make good on the LEP in two ways, they can supply the product (their stated, if protracted intention) or offer to reimburse the customers not happy to accept the changed timescale. No hard feelings, the plan changed & it just didn't work out.
Instead the only info we have is a result of customers chasing up progress, and the majority of the bitterness is in the mind of other customers. I have spoken to FDev in person about this, they were extremely conciliatory and apologetic. They don't see it as a lottery ticket at all.
Strangely enough, as a LEPer I don't remember getting these... I'm pretty sure I don't own any bobbleheads as I hate the things. Can anyone remind me what the paintjobs were?
Iridescent gleam.
That was for the Conda & SRV, then there was a black Mamba & some other black ship, plus a couple of christmassy bobble-heads, a snowman and most importantly, a snowflake.
I think I got a free black hole as well. At least that is where my money seems to have gone
You dont get your money back when your gamble doesnt pay out. That isnt how gambling works. Not even sure if you are being serious...
#FDev365.com
#BetDev.com (BetDAV.com??)
#Frontier888.com
Lab-BROOKES.com <==== it couln't be could it?
who saw that coming?
#BetDev.com (BetDAV.com??)
#Frontier888.com
Lab-BROOKES.com <==== it couln't be could it?
who saw that coming?
Well, he was the lead designer indeed.
Not sure why others have such an issue with the term though. A season pass doesnt come with guarantees or 'money back' clauses. It is a clear-cut example of taking a risky financial decision in the hopes of obtaining an uncertain outcome.
That is the dictionary definition of gambling.
of course another way would be to make the next update free to LEP holders and charge everyone else £75 for it, Then the LEPs could claim they have their moneys worth
That is disingenuous of you. If you see a pitch for a game yet to be developed, and buy a 'discount' on presumably multiple DLCs, price unknown, all un-announced with no estimated year or decade of deliver: you are gambling. You may have high hopes, but it is still a gamble. And if you sincerely do not understand that is a gamble, I recommend hiring someone to manage your finances.
Thanks, I'm fine.
This isn't about money, but trust and reputation. I'd have happily spent more money on Elite during the last couple of years, if I had gotten the content they talked about. You said "They said they wanted to do a number of things, they did some of them" and I'm not sure I fully agree with that.
Yes, they talked about stuff they wanted to do, but we didn't really get any of that. Instead we got Powerplay, CQC, Engineers, etc.
If I look back at those videos during the KS, I'm not sure I am the one who's being disingenuous here.
I'm not implying any malice on Frontier's part, but I think it's fair enough for me to voice my opinion that I'm not exactly happy with how the last couple of years went for Elite.
Telling me it's all my fault for not being able to manage my finances is just an unnecessary insult.
Thanks, I'm fine.
This isn't about money, but trust and reputation. I'd have happily spent more money on Elite during the last couple of years, if I had gotten the content they talked about. You said "They said they wanted to do a number of things, they did some of them" and I'm not sure I fully agree with that.
Yes, they talked about stuff they wanted to do, but we didn't really get any of that. Instead we got Powerplay, CQC, Engineers, etc.
If I look back at those videos during the KS, I'm not sure I am the one who's being disingenuous here.
I'm not implying any malice on Frontier's part, but I think it's fair enough for me to voice my opinion that I'm not exactly happy with how the last couple of years went for Elite.
Telling me it's all my fault for not being able to manage my finances is just an unnecessary insult.
You didnt get any of that? They gave four examples of stuff they would try to give: non atmo, atmo, space legs, executive ships.
There has been one paid dlc, which gave non atmo. Executive ships are delayed but confirmed. A second paid dlc is on the way, quite possible either atmo or space legs.
Not being happy is one thing (I imagined we would be further along by now myself...) but we're talking about an gamble with unfolding results. No need to re-frame that into something else.
Indeed they are, however, from the communications thus far, this appears to now be a free thing, meaning that the value of the LEP went down by some unspecified amount.
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