∞ Limpets?

[Old Duck]

The whole debate of infinite probes has me thinking, why not infinite limpets? Hold on, let me explain, as it actually makes a ton of sense.

Ignoring the prospector limpet (I'll get to this), limpets are finite because they expire. There's really no reason for this. My SRV doesn't "expire", nor do the robots moving packages around at Amazon. Why do collector limpets, refuel limpets, and repair limpets expire?

So here's my simple suggestion - make limpet controllers house permanent limpets, which return to the controller when recalled. This would remove the need for a cargo bay just for limpets, and finally it would make sense why a controller (which up to this point has just been a computer) for 3 limpets takes up as much room as an SLF hangar, because the controller would also house those limpets!

Make limpets indestructible, which is a bit of a stretch, but not a big stretch (it's not like limpets are often targeted in combat*). At the very least, get rid of the arbitrary "expires after n seconds" and "expires after single use" system we currently have, as this really doesn't make any sense. Heck, even a hatch-breaking limpet could return to the ship after it's done its job. And collector limpets should be smart enough not crash into asteroids or my ship

As for those prospector limpets, I would recommend replacing those with our planetary probes. It seems logical that a probe that can map the details of a planet's surface could easily double as an asteroid probe. This would simply things, especially if Frontier's goal is to integrate exploration and mining.

So in summary, the benefits of my idea are:

1) Removes the need of a cargo bay for non-cargo related limpets (refuel, repair, etc), and frees up cargo space in other scenarios.
2) Makes the current limpet controller module size "make sense".
3) Simplifies gameplay while remaining 100% logical and immersive (in other words, it's not "arcade-y").
4) No more forgetting limpets!
5) Brings more internal consistency to the game, which is a big deal to some of us.

The one negative I see is that Frontier would need to add "Recall Limpets" widget to the UI, but I don't think it would be that difficult (we have this for the SLF). Perhaps like SLF, we can have a certain number of "spares" should we SC away and leave our limpets behind.

ps - in case you missed it, I'm not actually advocating for infinite limpets, but rather a functional equivalent

* EDIT - I just remembered that hatch-breakers are targeted in combat, so perhaps these would need to use the old system... Thoughts?

 

[Oss133]

I fully endorse this proposal. Expiring limpets never made sense to me.

 

[Stealthie]

If they're going to go with the unlimited probes thing, and they want a way to tidy up some of the issues with limpets, it probably would make sense for limpets to be similarly unlimited too.

The main reason it won't happen, though, is cos FDev don't like abandoning stuff that's already in the game.
Somebody went to the effort of tacking limpets into a special little "restock" doodad within the "advanced maintenance" station menu and therefore it's there to stay.

 

[Factabulous]

Guess I lost the 'what will be the next infinity debate' competition, dammit

 

[insanephoton]

I heartily endorse the OP. So many times I've felt a pang of guilt for having to abandon limpets because their work was done. it would also partly address the kamikaze tendencies of some limpits

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I largely agree, except...

Rather than an infinite supply, each controller simply has the number of limpets that it can control, similar to ammunition. When the limpet’s lifespan is up, it returns to the controller to recharge. They can remain destructible, which would necessitate either restocking at a station or synthesis to replenish.

Why leave them destructible? Collector limpets will chase things they cannot recover, like rock fragments that wind up inside of a rock. Hatchbreakers need to be able to be shot down by point defense systems, and hull repair limpets need to be stopped in combat.

 

[Stealthie]

....it would also partly address the kamikaze tendencies of some limpits

That's a fair point too.

Limpets currently do some very dumb things and they get hosed in combat too.
If it's going to be a hassle for FDev to try and fix the limpet AI and/or modify how they're dealt with in combat then making them a limitless resource would be a simple way to minimise the inconvenience of this to players.

 

[Vash627]

Some good ideas in this thread.

 

[Micha]

Expiration (without being destroyed) was justified that they can only hold so much fuel. But what never made sense to me was that the limpets are fully multi-functional, but the controllers are specific. FAR easier to run a different computer program than to reconfigure hardware, but let's not go there. As for limpets being in the cargo hold, I guess that's because people can store as many limpets as they have cargo space, whereas if they were stored in the controllers the number of limpets would be limited by the controllers' size class.

Going to your suggestion:

Why the need to recall limpets, if we don't have to recall drones? Makes it even simpler. Immersion (for this particular aspect of the game) is broken anyway with the infinite stuff, so may as well just go fully game-on.
Bonus in-game explanation: Each limpet controller contains a simple autofactory which just 3d-prints limpets as required (there you go - each controller now has a factory for it's specific type of limpet, so no more handwavium needed for how the actual limpet hardware can be multifunctional). Therefore there's no need to have a lot of storage space for limpets. The material for 3d-printing the limpets comes from the same magical space dust as bandied about in the infinte drone threads.

For the sake of balance we'd still need to limit the number of active limpets though, otherwise people could just spam hatchbreakers and overwhelm point defenses.


Now all we need to do is justify why the other consumables can't be similarly auto-manufactured from the same magical space-dust.

 

[M66]

YES.

I'd love to have a dedicated team of drones/limpits ...called Huey, Dewey and Louie. Repair them and give them skins. have a camera to show them parked in the cargo bay. upgrade their systems.

 

[Stealthie]

I largely agree, except...

Rather than an infinite supply, each controller simply has the number of limpets that it can control, similar to ammunition. When the limpet’s lifespan is up, it returns to the controller to recharge. They can remain destructible, which would necessitate either restocking at a station or synthesis to replenish.

Why leave them destructible? Collector limpets will chase things they cannot recover, like rock fragments that wind up inside of a rock. Hatchbreakers need to be able to be shot down by point defense systems, and hull repair limpets need to be stopped in combat.

They definitely need to be destroyable but, if we're going to accept the idea that modules just generate their own "ammo" then it seems like limpets should be a candidate for that too.

If it was me, I'd set it up so that each limpet controller has it's "stock" of limpets available and then, after you launch one, it takes, say, 30 seconds for a replacement to be generated.

So, if you have, say, a C5 collector you can either launch 1 limpet, keep 2 in reserve for immediate launch and it'll be 30 seconds before the replacement is generated or you could launch all 3 and 1 replacement will be ready after 30 seconds, 2 will be ready after 60 seconds and 3 will be replaced after 90 seconds.

Of course, your controller could still only control the current maximum so if you've got 3 limpets in use and 3 replacements ready to go, you can't launch any new limpets until the current ones expire.

 

[Old Duck]

I largely agree, except...

Rather than an infinite supply, each controller simply has the number of limpets that it can control, similar to ammunition. When the limpet’s lifespan is up, it returns to the controller to recharge. They can remain destructible, which would necessitate either restocking at a station or synthesis to replenish.

Why leave them destructible? Collector limpets will chase things they cannot recover, like rock fragments that wind up inside of a rock. Hatchbreakers need to be able to be shot down by point defense systems, and hull repair limpets need to be stopped in combat.

This makes sense. From an "internal consistency" aspect, I like the idea of making limpets very similar to the SLF, where you launch them from their "bays" instead of cargo racks to do a job and retrieve them when they done, with enough spares. A size 5 limpet controller is equal to 32 tons of cargo, so it could theoretically carry up to 32 limpets, with the module grade still affecting things like range and time to "refuel" limpets. I never did understand why a computer (today's current size 5 limpet controller) is the size of an SLF hanger.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I think limpets should be converted to ammo. Larger class, more limpets.
Not too fussed about bring them home, it would be nice, but it they're ammo based, it would require less coding in the end.
Individual controller types can hold different amounts to balance.

I'd also change the "one shot" mode and multi mode for collection limpets.
One shot mode collects 1 item at a time, returning to drop of each item. And does flies quickly to each item, and can be used on cargo, fragments and materials. If targeting something, it'll just grab that, drop off, and wait until the next item is targeted.
Multimode would go around collecting as many fragments or materials (not cargo containers) as possible, then return to you when full (5 fragments?). Then go off again. It flies a bit slower, but handy for scooping multiple materials clustered together.

 

[Rob Galaxy]

I largely agree, except...

Rather than an infinite supply, each controller simply has the number of limpets that it can control, similar to ammunition. When the limpet’s lifespan is up, it returns to the controller to recharge. They can remain destructible, which would necessitate either restocking at a station or synthesis to replenish.

Why leave them destructible? Collector limpets will chase things they cannot recover, like rock fragments that wind up inside of a rock. Hatchbreakers need to be able to be shot down by point defense systems, and hull repair limpets need to be stopped in combat.

Largely agree to OP, but this ^^^ seems the best solution instead of make them infinite.

 

[JKF]

I did post this in another thread but I think Frontier could add synthesis of Mapping Probes by using 1 tonne of fuel for a fixed number of probes, all explorers have fuel scoops.
Another option would be to introduce using the fuel scoop at a gas giant to collect material specifically for Mapping Probe synthesis. Perhaps the right type of gas giant or more than one type to gather the correct ratio of materials for synthesis.