Little worries

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I do agree with you Vampiro. But UGC needs to be available and stored in one place, where it can be installed, not from lots of sites all over the place, where you have to go looking for it. And it needs to be bug free as well, many items of scenery I downloaded for RCT3 was corrupt, some files were not even complete, with parts missing. That's why UGC needs to be controlled, to prevent just any Joe Blogs, uploading something that has faults. Having Steam Workshop or Frontiers own workshop is the best idea.
 
UGC is a must. I cant see any reason not to support it unless they are trying to make money off of expansions but still...

Also park music i feel like is a must. and surely its not hard to implement
 
Let's be honest. It's Frontier. They came up with the idea of having custom music in the parks in RCT3. They are obviously going to put it in, it's not hard to implement. Stop getting so worried over everything guys :p
This was one of my favorite parts of RCT3. When that game came out I was obsessed with Bon Jovi and put Livin on a prayer on literally every ride. I would really like for that to return, but its not the end of the world if it doesn't.
 
Not to be the devil's advocate here, but there are other titles like Theme Park Studio on steam that have that full customization (importing) of all assets if you want. Almost complete and it's dam good new game for doing just what you guys are asking.

While I would like more customized options in this title, I have no qualms about not having any importing at all. I will love the game for what it is, more of a simulator then a desiging tool but at least it has that option to a point. If I want to get into the great designs of park building I load up Theme Park Studio, if I want a simulator of a park I load up RCT3 soon to be replaced by Planet Coaster.

I just see these threads popping up all over and repeating the same statements, it would be cool but I would rather see more depth game play then adding a graphical asset to the game. As we have other newer titles that offer exactly that. Back in the day of RCT3 we didn't have that, but now we have multiple titles that offer unique experiences for those that want to make a park fully by hand and those that want a more simple simulator that allows us to dabble in park making. The second is what I love about this game, it will be a more simple interactive park that I can whip up in a few min's/hours then the days and weeks I have taken making a park (which is very cool btw) in Theme Park Studio.

If you haven't seen that title look it up on steam , everything you guys are asking for in customization is already in that title. BTW I just looked it up, it still in early access but only 30.00 bucks, so good time to get it. Not to mention you can even make your own flat rides in game from scratch with the built in physics, it's a park simulator dream if that's what you are really looking for.

Guaranty we won't see this sort of depth in Planet Coaster, it's just not where the title is obviously going.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/254590


PS. the first video of the hay bailer (AKA barn storm) is my ride that I donated the funds to the game to have it made. Hope you enjoy that one, was one of my fav rides after exciting a water ride from Six Flags Great America, dried you off good :) and was fun to be on actually ;)
 
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Not to be the devil's advocate here, but there are other titles like Theme Park Studio on steam that have that full customization (importing) of all assets if you want. Almost complete and it's dam good new game for doing just what you guys are asking.
So ... Instead of asking PlanetCoaster to take some features from Theme Park Studio to become a more complete game, you just say : Leave PlanetCoaster unchanged and go away ? Indeed, you are the devil's advocate. [big grin]

I think Frontier can be the next level, taking the best features from other games (the grandpa RCT3, theSims, cities:skylines, TPS, etc...) to make the best theme park game ever.

PS : By the way, I love what TPS is doing, even if they are in need of a "UI Designer/Ergonomist" because my eyes bleed everytime I see their complex and ugly interface.
 
I bought in to early access on TPS. But gave up on it ages ago - it's just too complicated; and to be honest I severely miss the bit I enjoy most - the park management.
 
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Edit: WARING WALL OF TEXT< READ IF YOU DARE! MUAHAH!... ok, but seriously I wrote all of this because I feel it's time to say why I believe what I do about custom player content... enjoy the wall of horror text! :)

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Yea, I get it, not saying NOT to do things you guys are asking for, but at the level people are requesting it becomes what TPS currently is. I think importing is a great idea, but an official support of it can hurt their sales (as they want to continue support of the game for years to come) and that might not sound great, but in the end it's their bottom line that will matter. To me this title is more about management and designing what is there with what we get.

While RTC3 was great and our added content was later to make it 100x better, I could see a downfall of implementing such if I was on the company payroll. As a developer myself, when I make software, I have to think of my bottom line, being what I add or how automated I make something to a point where no more income can be made. Sounds bad sure, but I need to make a living as well.

DLC and expansion add to that bottom line in the gaming industry no doubt about it, but I know titles with mass downloadable content that has helped the game last but hindered the teams that made the core game as all they can do at that point is engineer new engine features and changes. That has a deeper cost then saying adding content like a store stall in this title as an example.

There is that fine balance no doubt and I am sure there would be a way too implement player content while allowing the devs to continue as the example above, but I see that as a complaint fest down the road as well because X can't be added while Y can etc etc. To me at least I would rather see more official content release that I know will work with the game with no issues then a bunch of half done assets sitting on a download section I will never use.

I look at games like Skyrim and Space Engineers. Both titles have a TON of downloadable content that the community has made, in both however, maybe 20% is actually good quality, finish content and or compatible with the latest build while 80% is easily not. The rating system on that (steam) is just as bad as well, stuff that has a high rating had it from the launch and still hold those #'s but the content that was covered at the time doesn't work with a current build is usually the outcome.

Point being, there is so many "unknown's" to community content that over half the time it's more frustrating to mess with then it is to just use the base game. Our community in the after math of RCT3 not releasing any more expansion was a nitch community that worked with an engine that was NEVER meant to be manipulated. And the only reason we even got to mess with it after a point was a developer from frontier helping the community out with code and the understanding of how assets where implement in the engine they used. It was a very unique circumstance I have never seen that happen again in any other title.

Also at that time, most of our released content (around 80%) was top quality (It worked) because it was the only way to get it into the engine to actually use so the quality had to be good or it wouldn't show up in the game or would crash your game. There was no fumbling or half *** content that could be produced. It had to be perfect or it wouldn't run in that engine. Games with the ability to just "make it and upload it" like City Skylines and others mentioned above can have almost any quality from crappy to great uploaded. You don't need to be a perfectionists or have quality control when the engine allows for errors or lower poly counts as an example.

City Skylines as mentioned is just another example of this, you can go threw that community content and 20% is viable and or has good quality while most others are scamp re-hacks of current good quality attempting to adjust or change that content for something they prefer more.

In the end sure, it's up to the individual to decide what is good or not and many people use community content all the time, but I read just as much negative if not more so then positive on all those games that allow it. Prime examples.... "Why does my game crash sense patch 3.2?" "When we will get an update to module # 353553215235?" "Why is it when I use player content my game crashes? Your engine sucks!" ... and the list goes on. Check any forum thread of the above mentioned games, screen shot it and post it here, you won't find one page without someone complaining about compatibility or how the engine doesn't do a good job with community content.

Now I could be wrong, could be another RCT3 community content , in which case I would be 100% behind the idea, sadly most of the guys I know from that era have moved on or passed on. Not saying others wouldn't take the reigns, but I see posting here already that speaks of difficulties in other titles that are to much depth for the game play they want. Yet they want the content just made for them by others in the community. If you find a good list of people from RCT3 that developed custom content for that title, I might change my mind. I only developed 2 things during that time and it was sound implementation and the assisted 3d animations, this time around thou I won't get into that part of it nor do I have interested doing so.

I was going to do so in TPS but it's very "built in" that you don't need to do things outside the system to implement your dream ride or creations, it's all there for you. So I seen no reason to do it then and here I just want to have a cool sim I can mess with in the genre I love, so good to go! I just don't see the need for extensive custom content unless the developers didn't make the statement about continue support for years to come if the community wants it comments. To that end, that is all I ever wanted in tps3 but Atari said otherwise by not paying those it owed and not willing to support Frontier further on development. That won't be the case here, So I really don't see the need to be honest. More negatives then positives in my eyes sadly, others here obviously feel differently , but I just don't see the need.

For me at least, small minor things are fine but I again would rather see more time put into the core engine and what they have envisioned then spend a good amount of development time working on import features with security measure's and or a system development that monitors user assets. For me at least time spent on core features would be better then implementing something that may be used by a certain % of the community.
 
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I bought in to early access on TPS. But gave up on it ages ago - it's just too complicated; and to be honest I severely miss the bit I enjoy most - the park management.
I contributed to their kickstarter but I can't really get into either. Even if it were easier to use graphically its just not very pleasing...bad textures and bland lighting. I could be wrong about this but I thought I also read that actually getting the custom objects into the game is rather frustrating.

To me its more than a little worry for PC how they keep skirting around this issue. I don't really understand why there isn't a clear answer for this. I wonder if they're worried about unlicensed custom content (Disney for example) finding its way into the game?
 

Vampiro

Volunteer Moderator
Edit: WARING WALL OF TEXT< READ IF YOU DARE! MUAHAH!... ok, but seriously I wrote all of this because I feel it's time to say why I believe what I do about custom player content... enjoy the wall of horror text! :)


Yea, I get it, not saying NOT to do things you guys are asking for, but at the level people are requesting it becomes what TPS currently is. I think importing is a great idea, but an official support of it can hurt their sales (as they want to continue support of the game for years to come) and that might not sound great, but in the end it's their bottom line that will matter. To me this title is more about management and designing what is there with what we get.

While RTC3 was great and our added content was later to make it 100x better, I could see a downfall of implementing such if I was on the company payroll. As a developer myself, when I make software, I have to think of my bottom line, being what I add or how automated I make something to a point where no more income can be made. Sounds bad sure, but I need to make a living as well.

DLC and expansion add to that bottom line in the gaming industry no doubt about it, but I know titles with mass downloadable content that has helped the game last but hindered the teams that made the core game as all they can do at that point is engineer new engine features and changes. That has a deeper cost then saying adding content like a store stall in this title as an example.

There is that fine balance no doubt and I am sure there would be a way too implement player content while allowing the devs to continue as the example above, but I see that as a complaint fest down the road as well because X can't be added while Y can etc etc. To me at least I would rather see more official content release that I know will work with the game with no issues then a bunch of half done assets sitting on a download section I will never use.

I look at games like Skyrim and Space Engineers. Both titles have a TON of downloadable content that the community has made, in both however, maybe 20% is actually good quality, finish content and or compatible with the latest build while 80% is easily not. The rating system on that (steam) is just as bad as well, stuff that has a high rating had it from the launch and still hold those #'s but the content that was covered at the time doesn't work with a current build is usually the outcome.

Point being, there is so many "unknown's" to community content that over half the time it's more frustrating to mess with then it is to just use the base game. Our community in the after math of RCT3 not releasing any more expansion was a nitch community that worked with an engine that was NEVER meant to be manipulated. And the only reason we even got to mess with it after a point was a developer from frontier helping the community out with code and the understanding of how assets where implement in the engine they used. It was a very unique circumstance I have never seen that happen again in any other title.

Also at that time, most of our released content (around 80%) was top quality (It worked) because it was the only way to get it into the engine to actually use so the quality had to be good or it wouldn't show up in the game or would crash your game. There was no fumbling or half *** content that could be produced. It had to be perfect or it wouldn't run in that engine. Games with the ability to just "make it and upload it" like City Skylines and others mentioned above can have almost any quality from crappy to great uploaded. You don't need to be a perfectionists or have quality control when the engine allows for errors or lower poly counts as an example.

City Skylines as mentioned is just another example of this, you can go threw that community content and 20% is viable and or has good quality while most others are scamp re-hacks of current good quality attempting to adjust or change that content for something they prefer more.

In the end sure, it's up to the individual to decide what is good or not and many people use community content all the time, but I read just as much negative if not more so then positive on all those games that allow it. Prime examples.... "Why does my game crash sense patch 3.2?" "When we will get an update to module # 353553215235?" "Why is it when I use player content my game crashes? Your engine sucks!" ... and the list goes on. Check any forum thread of the above mentioned games, screen shot it and post it here, you won't find one page without someone complaining about compatibility or how the engine doesn't do a good job with community content.

Now I could be wrong, could be another RCT3 community content , in which case I would be 100% behind the idea, sadly most of the guys I know from that era have moved on or passed on. Not saying others wouldn't take the reigns, but I see posting here already that speaks of difficulties in other titles that are to much depth for the game play they want. Yet they want the content just made for them by others in the community. If you find a good list of people from RCT3 that developed custom content for that title, I might change my mind. I only developed 2 things during that time and it was sound implementation and the assisted 3d animations, this time around thou I won't get into that part of it nor do I have interested doing so.

I was going to do so in TPS but it's very "built in" that you don't need to do things outside the system to implement your dream ride or creations, it's all there for you. So I seen no reason to do it then and here I just want to have a cool sim I can mess with in the genre I love, so good to go! I just don't see the need for extensive custom content unless the developers didn't make the statement about continue support for years to come if the community wants it comments. To that end, that is all I ever wanted in tps3 but Atari said otherwise by not paying those it owed and not willing to support Frontier further on development. That won't be the case here, So I really don't see the need to be honest. More negatives then positives in my eyes sadly, others here obviously feel differently , but I just don't see the need.

For me at least, small minor things are fine but I again would rather see more time put into the core engine and what they have envisioned then spend a good amount of development time working on import features with security measure's and or a system development that monitors user assets. For me at least time spent on core features would be better then implementing something that may be used by a certain % of the community.
I understand what you say, im just not fully agreeing ;)

I understand not all custom stuff's quality is what it should be. But it's up to me, the end user to decide if a certain object is good enough for me to download :)
We pretty much all agree RCT3 was a VERY good game, especiallyconsidering the limitations we had 10+ years ago. But the reason the game is still being played today is because of all the improvements the community made. This fact alone is reason enough for me to justify custom stuff.

At the same time i agree with you that the developers should spend most of their time on the base game, the gameplay, mechanics, al, etc. When they do an outstanding job in creating a "platform" with maybe only 3 themes in it i can live with that as long as the game allows US to expand those 3 themes inso a 100. As i will be bored soon of this kind of game when it has only 3 themes. So lets see the upside, let the developers handle the core game, and let US do the expantioning withing the possibilities. (As in no way can we expect the developers to add like 50 themes)

When it comes to money, they can always make the game "bigger" instead of "deeper" ... While we can create our own content, they can make stuff we cant (firework show, water show, parades, hotel's... the wishlist is long enough) When the game entertains long enough, im sure people will keep buying those.

No offence, im just not agreeing with your arguments. :)
 
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Sawyer1

Planet Coaster Ambassador
But the reason the game is still being played today is because of all the improvements the community made.
I'm going to throw my none agreement and say that yes I have used custom content before and lots of it, I'm currently building a 'Swan Song Goodbye RCT3' park that has absolutely no custom content at all. I'm loving it, in fact I've only just noticed the Egyptian sphinx's have spectacles! [haha]

While I thing custom has helped, absolutely it has. I don't think it is needed, at least not yet. What worries me is this what Guardious said,

To me at least I would rather see more official content release that I know will work with the game with no issues then a bunch of half done assets sitting on a download section I will never use.
I agree with this and worry the game could be filled with not great content, I know I don't have to have it but I think it makes the game look bad.

However...

an in game editor or one made by frontier so we can shape/ texture walls, I'm down for that if it is an additional feature from the game developers.

I'm not sure, I'm on the fence! I see pros and cons!

Frontier will get it right and deliver.
This [up]!!
 
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I understand what you say, im just not fully agreeing ;)

I understand not all custom stuff's quality is what it should be. But it's up to me, the end user to decide if a certain object is good enough for me to download :)
We pretty much all agree RCT3 was a VERY good game, especiallyconsidering the limitations we had 10+ years ago. But the reason the game is still being played today is because of all the improvements the community made. This fact alone is reason enough for me to justify custom stuff.

At the same time i agree with you that the developers should spend most of their time on the base game, the gameplay, mechanics, al, etc. When they do an outstanding job in creating a "platform" with maybe only 3 themes in it i can live with that as long as the game allows US to expand those 3 themes inso a 100. As i will be bored soon of this kind of game when it has only 3 themes. So lets see the upside, let the developers handle the core game, and let US do the expantioning withing the possibilities. (As in no way can we expect the developers to add like 50 themes)

When it comes to money, they can always make the game "bigger" instead of "deeper" ... While we can create our own content, they can make stuff we cant (firework show, water show, parades, hotel's... the wishlist is long enough) When the game entertains long enough, im sure people will keep buying those.

No offence, im just not agreeing with your arguments. :)
No offence taken,

I like what your saying and too that end I agree. If they get the core mechainics etc done, then by all means bring on the custom player content! I will however always look to Frontier for the quality and depth I would expect from dlc and or expansions. You are right, there is plenty to expand upon that a general importer would not take care of, IE parades and the like. But I do believe they can add their own custom dlc content just as we could with community shared content.

In the end I have no ill will to the idea, I just have ill will if they have time restraints, they have not publicly agreed to or against the idea, but I believe at this time they have a full year time-line for development and personally I believe that "option" is probably on a board somewhere but down the road after release is my guess.

Anyways, you made good remarks and have changed my "overall" opinion on the idea and to that end I am on the side of custom content when the developers have scheduled it to be so. Not pushed before hand because of the constant request for it ;)


PS. Sawyer, 100% agree. well said.

PS. PS. Angelis , lol I know :) your a good peep ;)
 
We can live without the voxel editor, I mean, it's less fun but we can make a park on a flat terrain,
Etc...
No, we cannot live without the voxel editor ;-)

I agree with the custom music and UGC. In RCT3 I used custom music in pretty much all of my parks where I had taken time to theme them properly. I didn't use UGC content as much, however I did use it and for creative sandbox games like this I feel it adds a lot to the game.

My main concern about the game currently is much more mundane than other points in this thread. My concern is with the performance of the game or more specifically how it will run with a large park that's themed and crawling with guests. The big problem for me with RCT3 was disappointing performance when you'd build up a modest sized park and themed it even with a modern computer. With Planet Coaster looking as lovely as it does I cannot help but feel nervous that it will end up a stuttering mess once the park gets over a certain size!
 
Having just read through all the comments on this thread again, I have come to the conclusion that no matter what ends up in the game or what doesn't, there will always be people who won't be satisfied. Yes we all want the game to be better than anything that was available before, but to get Planet Coaster to the content level that RCT3 is now, is going to take a very long time. I am sure Frontier have a pretty good idea of what most people want and have taken on board the many comments on these forums.

I am quite happy to go along with everything Frontier are putting into the game, which from the management side, looks as though it is going to be better than RCT3 was. So far they are creating a game that has far outweighed our expectations, by bringing entertainers into play. Much improved landscaping tools that will enable much better theming to to be done. The advancement with shops and food stalls, a much better path building system and rides and coasters that look much more realistic than those from another game I won't mention, that is under development.

Frontier have told us that they want this game to be the best they can design and they have many great ideas for taking it forward into the future. I am sure Frontier would like to bring in Hotels or a Village complex into the game management but these are things that could possibly be added in a later Expansion pack for the game. There is at least another nine months of development before the game is finally released and who knows what is planed, up until that period. Yes it will be nice to have as many different themes as possible and lots of building pieces to create proper dark rides, but all this can't be done by Frontier and maybe they will allow UGC eventually, once they can implement it properly.

But for the time being I am quite happy just to go along with what Frontier are putting into the game already and let time take its course. We already know that Frontier, know how to create water because of RCT3, but going off the improved Voxel landscaping tools, maybe they are now working on creating a much better set of water forming tools that will enable much better looking water features and landscaping. Going off what we have seen so far from the dev team, who knows what delights we are going to see in the next nine months. Frontier are pretty good at keeping things from us and surprising us, with things we never expected.

I have every faith in Frontier that they will give us all, the best possible Theme Park Game that can ever be constructed at the end of the day, because this is what they believe in, it's what they are all very passionate about and dedicated in the work they do. They do their best to try and work alongside the community for ideas and feedback. If anything is possible for this game, I'm sure they look long and hard and will do their upmost to try and include it.

Let's just leave it with Frontier. They are just as enthusiastic about this game as everyone else is on these forums and will put as much into it as they can, as and when time permits.
 

Vampiro

Volunteer Moderator
No offence taken,

I like what your saying and too that end I agree. If they get the core mechainics etc done, then by all means bring on the custom player content! I will however always look to Frontier for the quality and depth I would expect from dlc and or expansions. You are right, there is plenty to expand upon that a general importer would not take care of, IE parades and the like. But I do believe they can add their own custom dlc content just as we could with community shared content.

In the end I have no ill will to the idea, I just have ill will if they have time restraints, they have not publicly agreed to or against the idea, but I believe at this time they have a full year time-line for development and personally I believe that "option" is probably on a board somewhere but down the road after release is my guess.

Anyways, you made good remarks and have changed my "overall" opinion on the idea and to that end I am on the side of custom content when the developers have scheduled it to be so. Not pushed before hand because of the constant request for it ;)


PS. Sawyer, 100% agree. well said.

PS. PS. Angelis , lol I know :) your a good peep ;)
Reading your post again made me realise we were kinda agreeing from the start.

You were not anti-custom stuff but your focus was more on the fact that Frontier should deliver quality instead of delivering less quality because they had to spend time on Custom stuff related things.
I think we are agreeing on that very much, to me it's most critical the base game is solid and of high quality. Even if we have like 150 themes, if the base game is crap i don't even care to download them. First and foremost the basic game needs to be solid ... But i was more or less taken a solid game for granted and to me part of a "solid" game is the option to having CO.

Ah well, in the end we all want the same i guess... the best possible game with the most possible high quality content :) (either original or CO)

I just want to make another positive note here... i was pleasantly surprised how understanding people are here. Even tough we (and few others) seemed to disagree, we all stayed very friendly and respectfull. I know that to a lot of people thats just how it should be but on a lot of other forums people are a lot less respectfull and even the smallest disagreement can lead to flaming.
Nice to know most people here are in good spirits and respectfull and helpfull towards others. Might all sound a bit corny, but good things might be said as well.
 

Joël

Volunteer Moderator
Having just read through all the comments on this thread again, I have come to the conclusion that no matter what ends up in the game or what doesn't, there will always be people who won't be satisfied. Yes we all want the game to be better than anything that was available before, but to get Planet Coaster to the content level that RCT3 is now, is going to take a very long time. I am sure Frontier have a pretty good idea of what most people want and have taken on board the many comments on these forums.

I am quite happy to go along with everything Frontier are putting into the game, which from the management side, looks as though it is going to be better than RCT3 was. So far they are creating a game that has far outweighed our expectations, by bringing entertainers into play. Much improved landscaping tools that will enable much better theming to to be done. The advancement with shops and food stalls, a much better path building system and rides and coasters that look much more realistic than those from another game I won't mention, that is under development.

Frontier have told us that they want this game to be the best they can design and they have many great ideas for taking it forward into the future. I am sure Frontier would like to bring in Hotels or a Village complex into the game management but these are things that could possibly be added in a later Expansion pack for the game. There is at least another nine months of development before the game is finally released and who knows what is planed, up until that period. Yes it will be nice to have as many different themes as possible and lots of building pieces to create proper dark rides, but all this can't be done by Frontier and maybe they will allow UGC eventually, once they can implement it properly.

But for the time being I am quite happy just to go along with what Frontier are putting into the game already and let time take its course. We already know that Frontier, know how to create water because of RCT3, but going off the improved Voxel landscaping tools, maybe they are now working on creating a much better set of water forming tools that will enable much better looking water features and landscaping. Going off what we have seen so far from the dev team, who knows what delights we are going to see in the next nine months. Frontier are pretty good at keeping things from us and surprising us, with things we never expected.

I have every faith in Frontier that they will give us all, the best possible Theme Park Game that can ever be constructed at the end of the day, because this is what they believe in, it's what they are all very passionate about and dedicated in the work they do. They do their best to try and work alongside the community for ideas and feedback. If anything is possible for this game, I'm sure they look long and hard and will do their upmost to try and include it.

Let's just leave it with Frontier. They are just as enthusiastic about this game as everyone else is on these forums and will put as much into it as they can, as and when time permits.
[up] Wow! Very well said. I stand with you 100%. I have read your post and have little to add to this. Thank you Coasterbuff! [praise]

We love Frontier and their passion and love, for we have that too and feel the same! [heart]
 

Vampiro

Volunteer Moderator
Regarding Custom music...

Q&A had a question about on board music and the reply was this :

"As for on-board music, we are all over this and investigating all the various ways in which this could work"

I know this is -NOT- confirming costum music, but i do think it's kinda hinting towards it. Wouldn't it be a littlebit weird to have such advanced sound options but still being forced to being stuck on the few songs that will come within the game?
 
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