That doesn't help with piracy though. A pirate needs the target to remain in order to get cargo. The win is in getting the cargo, not in destroying the other ship or forcing them away.
Logging During Combat Punishment [Proposal]
- Thread starter MONTItheRed
- Start date
That doesn't help with piracy though. A pirate needs the target to remain in order to get cargo. The win is in getting the cargo, not in destroying the other ship or forcing them away.
None of the punishments, save for prevention of logging into the game, are out of game actions. Additionally, all punishments are meant for actions that are taken in game. Further lore justification could be that such actions are considered violations of the laws of armed conflict, treaties, or conventions the Pilot's Federation agree to. There are legion of things that occur in game that aren't justified through lore.
Applying punishments to griefers seems reasonable to me. If the PF has a zero tolerance policy against attacking clean ships (can you link that?, I'm trying to learn more about the Pilot's Federatio) then attacks against clean ships should bestow a bounty from the Pilot's Federation. Piracy isn't against the terms of use/EULA/etc.
How can you not agree that others have said playing in solo or private would not be a punishment?
Then other methods of punishment could be applied.
I agree that the in game comms, instancing, wings, and NPCs need to be reworked. However, this seems like a tenuous justification for exploiting.
Players wouldn't be paying for their TARGET'S rebuy; the players that break the rules pay a rebuy, and the same amount is awarded to players they violated rules against.
I've re-worded the restitution section because I can see how it could be confusing. Hopefully the change is more clear.
- Restitution: the rebuy of the guilty party awarded to those players engaged in combat with the combat logger rules violator. Splitting this award among all players could prevent this method being used to create free money. Additionally, if paired with the banishment, the time out of game would get longer and longer, meaning the restitution element would be more difficult to farm.
That's what I mean. It's mixing up things which are "illegal" in game with things which are against the actual rules.
It makes no sense for the PF to care about combat logging or cheating, because those things don't exist in character. It would be like Frontier taking out of game action against a player for shooting an NPC miner to get chemical manipulators.
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/pilots-federation
How bounties work is a bit muddled. But at least in theory the PF is involved.
Combat logging is such a non issue. You still win the fight and get to watch the opponent's ignominious exit. The combat logger should lose what you lost, I.e. nothing.
This gets to another solution, make PVP combat a no loss activity. That would make PVP in private/open similar to CQC.
Attacking people without asking isn't against the terms of use or EULA. Indeed that seems far fetched in that you don't ask NPCs if you can attack them. There probably should be a declare piracy mechanic. Within CQC do you ask your opponents if you can attack them before the match starts? Attacking people without asking would be a criminal act, well, attacking people even with asking should be a criminal act unless its a PVP duel.
Fdev haven't provided any guidance or policy regarding asking for combat, and have said that piracy and murder aren't against the terms of service/EULA.
I thought we already established that while combat logging is against the rules, pretty much no-one cared. It's frankly impossible to acurately detect in a provable manner without unduly punishing people wbo.simply have poor connections, and since the possibility of leaving combat GRACEFULLY has already been embraced by fdev, leaving it ungracefully seems even more minor. I'd much rather see them put in a real c&p system for something they CAN fix (in game security) than spending all that dev time chasing something impossible to fix and so minor.
Priorities - get some.
Priorities - get some.
Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't intend for the lore justification to be a requirement or prerequisite for the punishment system, merely something that if there was a call for a lore justification, there is one.
Thank you for the link, it is very helpful.
The issue here is that they've decided to label something an "exploit" without any way of detecting or enforcing it. They also have zero plan to address the underlying issues that encourage PVE players to combat log even though they have acknowledged that at present there is no incentive for a PVE player to continue to fight a losing battle when interdicted by another CMDR. If the entire "point" of PVP at present is simply for the PVE masses to act as seals to get clubbed by immature PVP players (which are unfortunately the ones doing the majority of interdictions) then there's no point even discussing the issue of combat logging until this is addressed in some way.
First, I don't see it as "designed" at all when FD had clearly intended that mission stacking is limited by the mission respawn rate. Mode switching completely circumvents this. The only reason they don't consider it an "exploit" is again because of the P2P architecture of the game which means it can't be easily fixed without creating a central server to ensure consistency between mission generation in Solo and Open modes which is not currently supported by the game. Second, when you have to face another player in a dramatically more powerful ship because they used mode-switching to earn billions of credits for very little work then yes I would say that mode-switching does negatively affect other players, at least for PVP (which is what we're discussing here).
Well they are certainly more balanced then most PVP interdictions. There are only a few times I have encountered what I considered a "fair" fight when interdicted and when this happens I will stay around to fight the opposing CMDR instead of jumping away. For example during a Sothis run in my Python I was faced with another CMDR in a Python who interdicted me and I had a decent chance in that fight. I ended up losing that fight in part because my ship was a multirole build designed for cargo and wasn't as fast or agile as the combat-build Python that interdicted me but I did take his shields down and got his hull down to 70% before I tried to break off as my own shields were down as well. The main reason I lost that fight wasn't the ship differences however, the mistake I made was that I tried to run only to realize that his Python was faster than mine and at that point he just pursued my ship and finished me off. Against an NPC I would have easily outrun them so it was a good lesson not to bother running against another CMDR. If I didn't try to break off from the fight there was a good chance I would have beaten him as my ship was very well armed with a full set of overcharged multicannons. I didn't even think of combat logging during that fight because that was a good fight and he earned his kill. It cost me an 8 mil rebuy plus lost rep from losing the cargo for those mission but that was fine as far as I was concerned. Now, if I were in a trading ship like a Type 6 that would not have been any sort of fight at all and unfortunately an imbalanced seal clubbing is what the vast majority of PVP interdictions are for most PVE players.
That is fundamentally the main cause of why PVE players combat log, there are no real consequences or risks for the PVP player and significant loss of credits and cargo for the PVE target. When you're simply losing credits for another player's "amusement" and have an easy solution in the form of the Task Manager which is literally two clicks away I don't blame players at all for resorting to combat logging with the current gameplay we have.
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The issue of combat logging seems to be as big an issue as ever, if not bigger.
Lave Radio Episode 134 - Round and Round the Station the Combat Logger Ran
29 Nov 2016, Lave Radio
http://laveradio.com/lave-radio-episode-134/
Elite Dangerous - PvP and Combat Logging Issue
25 Nov 2016, ObsidianAnt
https://youtu.be/cAhf1QDp9N4
Elite Dangerous - Big Payouts, Passengers and a little something about Combat Logging
23 Nov 2016, Obsidian Ant
https://youtu.be/yii97AQxhEQ
Elite Dangerous PVP Combat Logging
30 Nov 2016, Vindicator Jones
https://youtu.be/lqSmR4iCku4
Combat Logging Update
27 Jan 2015, Sandro Sammarco
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/105778-“Combat-Logging”-Update
Elite Wiki Combat Logging
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Logging
Frontier assure they are fighting Elite combat logging after community proves failure to deal with exploit
23 November 2016, PCGamesN
http://www.pcgamesn.com/elite-dangerous/elite-dangerous-combat-logging
Frustrated Elite Dangerous players are trying to get Frontier to fix cheating
23 Nov 2016, EuroGamer
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rs-are-trying-to-get-frontier-to-fix-cheating
Elite: Dangerous user criticises Frontier over combat logging
23 Nov 2016, GameReactor
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/484023/Elite+Dangerous+user+criticises+Frontier+over+combat+logging/
Report: Elite Dangerous Developers Are Deliberately Ignoring Combat Logging
23 Nov 2016, Segment Next
http://segmentnext.com/2016/11/23/e...ers-are-deliberately-ignoring-combat-logging/
Elite: Dangerous players are pressing Frontier to address cheating complaints
23 Nov 2016, VG 247
https://www.vg247.com/2016/11/23/el...sing-frontier-to-address-cheating-complaints/
Elite Dangerous: Combat Logging Not The Main Problem?
25 Nov 2016, The Bit Bag
http://www.thebitbag.com/elite-dangerous-combat-logging-not-main-problem/205399
ELITE DANGEROUS PLAYERS ACCUSE FRONTIER OF IGNORING COMBAT EXPLOIT
23 Nov 2016, Massively Overpowered
http://massivelyop.com/2016/11/23/e...s-accuse-frontier-of-ignoring-combat-exploit/
The Elite Dangerous Community Are Not Impressed With Frontier Developments Lack Of Support
23 Nov 2016, The Game Watcher
http://www.gamewatcher.com/news/201...ed-with-frontier-developments-lack-of-support
Elite: Dangerous Devs Urged to Exploit Cheaters
24 Nov 2016, MMO Examiner
http://mmoexaminer.com/elite-dangerous-exploit-cheaters/
And those are just the English language articles.
I don't want to play a game that punch me by longing out from the game whenever i want, i understand how it is upsetting for some players not to disturb other players peaceful game-play, in fact i ask for more punishment for players who attack players for stealing cargo, i will honestly delete the game once for ever if i am not allowed to do that ( even tho i did logout only twice), but this well just allow more annoying game play to be it the game.
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Every thing...
PS: Do you also walk on water ???
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Crime & Punishment system in a game - What is the world coming too ???
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Here's an idea, what about a little bit of self help. . . . .
Do you know a repeat offending combat logger? Block them from the menu screen.
Got friends in game . . . . I'm sure you do, get them to block them also.
Got a known perceived griefer? Same as above.
A large group will not miss one combat logger or one griefer, but both players games will be slightly diminished. Enough blocking could effectively see them in solo. (equivalent)
Combat loggers/griefers are always welcome in open, but both may find it starts to get lonely round their usual haunts, as if they were in solo, maybe where they belong.
Or . . . . we all may start to change the way we behave in open.
Just a thought ridicule if you like. I think the message may really be, don't play alone in open, make friends, it can really enhance the game. I'm sure most of us do. (Make friends).
Do you know a repeat offending combat logger? Block them from the menu screen.
Got friends in game . . . . I'm sure you do, get them to block them also.
Got a known perceived griefer? Same as above.
A large group will not miss one combat logger or one griefer, but both players games will be slightly diminished. Enough blocking could effectively see them in solo. (equivalent)
Combat loggers/griefers are always welcome in open, but both may find it starts to get lonely round their usual haunts, as if they were in solo, maybe where they belong.
Or . . . . we all may start to change the way we behave in open.
Just a thought ridicule if you like. I think the message may really be, don't play alone in open, make friends, it can really enhance the game. I'm sure most of us do. (Make friends).
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People complain about everything.
I thought that blocking players reduced the chances of instancing with them. On the flip side I thought friending players, or being in wing, or being in the same private group improved instancing with them.
However, now I am not so sure. There seems to be conflicting information from Fdev regarding the functions and intent of blocking.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...sk_and_answer_any_questions_you_have/dah31bf/
The quick start manual and players guide say that blocking reduces chances of instancing, but Michael Brookes says blocking only blocks communication.
What is the childish obsession with "punishment"?
*If* you can establish that combat logging is an issue with significant adverse impact to open (your own definition restricted it to PvP), and *if* you can actually find a way to determine when it has happened: then the goal would be to stop it happening.
What difference does it make if the person doing it was "punished", as long as the activity stops?
Stop worrying so much about everyone else. If *your* experience is somehow harmed, then you should advocate fixing your experience.
Where do I get the hatch breaker upgrade in CQC?
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Wrong.
There have been plenty of proposals which would minimize the chances of "innocent casualties". Strike systems. Only counting towards a ban when in PvP combat with a player (which is rare, if you disconnect in combat with that player is even rarer and if you disconnect when under X amount of hull is even rarer than that).
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We must build aditional pylo..... popcorns.
Then you must dislike: Overwatch, CoD, CS, GTA and many many others.
Fact is, you are probably playing games that do punish you for leaving early, this is far from a new concept.