NOTICE: Magnificent Rides Collection Delay

....Also note how at the loading station the vehicles do actually pause and don't move continuously.
Absolutely not true. This lift never stops. Vehicles are attached (fixed) to a continious moving cable. See the whole ride. At the start of the film, guests are just standing and waiting for a chair to arrive. You see them actually go sit down and directly move forward and in motion closing the restraints.

Here you’ll see the loading of a different angle:
[video=youtube_share;KA2XRjLqX1c]https://youtu.be/KA2XRjLqX1c[/video]
 
Is the chairlift a transport ride? There have been problems with guest behaviors on transport rides for a long time. So, maybe, just maybe, their chairlift testing confirmed what many of us have known for awhile.

I've had parks where literally a thousand guests would attempt to queue for a transport ride, even when priced far too high. The only way to solve it was to close the ride.

This suggests if they fix this guest behavior for chairlifts, other transport rides will benefit. I've been waiting and hoping for this for quite some time. If they get it right, it is well worth the wait.
 
Bo in today's stream "Game breaking bug"

I'll take a stab at what it could be...

There is no "Guest" per say as far as the game goes it's "Guests" things are done by "Guests" not by a single "Guest" why do it this way ?

Well, let's look at a recent game that tried to use single people overall, SIMCITY used a agent system and because of the limitations of using such a system the city sizes were stuck on the small size, roughly the size of the smallest city in SimCity 4, to get past the limitations the focus was on region play where you would play several cities at different levels of development.

The problem of course is that the regions were mostly empty space there was no smooth transition from city to country side back to city, the game felt more like a step backwards then forward, also the sims would go to work at the closest place where they lived, then after work would go to the closest house afterwards, the agent system in other words seemed like it was busted, it was why did they even bother when the old system worked just fine.

My point is that to have a lot of "Guests" in any park you don't go with a Agent System as then you have to place limits elsewhere, park size, ect etc etc, this won't do as most theme parks take up a lot of space, generally speaking that is, while there are small parks out there, the point is most wanted to have as much space to build a park in even if they didn't fill up the entire space they had, some decided, hey I place parking lots, Hotels, backstage ares, in that space outside the parks to make it look more like the real thing, thus filling up all that empty space around the park.

Anyway, my guess is the game breaking bug has to do with how "Guests" work in PlanCo, namely as a "Group" not as a solo "Guest" granted, yes once in awhile you will see a "Group" of 1 but that seems rare for the most part, I saw myself in my TMT workshop park, I made mostly to just have a place to test my creations & to get around a lot of the loading times of the Game due to this or that bug that slowed things down to a crawl.

My TMT workshop park is 1 ride, all the food / drink vending machines, some restrooms, some staff, a few staff buildings, namely about as basic as you can get for a park ;-)

Anyhow, what I figure is that the "Guests" started behaving strangely and didn't re-group and made the game crash due to being so may single people for the computer to keep track of, keep tabs of, etc etc etc, thus dragging the game down to the point where the only solution is to turn itself off, or at least Windows itself turned it off due to using more & more resources from the computer.

You might be glad they caught this bug in time, if long load times and random crashes are bad, just think of loading the game only to have it crash right away, not even getting past the menu screen, namely you might not even be able to load a park in the first place, this is my guess on how bad of a game breaking bug this might be. In order to be future proof, for other rides that use a system like the Chairlift uses in future ride packs this bug must be killed now before it becomes a problem down the line.

In Summery - Take your time to kill this "Game Breaking Bug" guys

I'll go even as far as to say what if the game doesn't start at all due to this bug ? You'll be glad they caught it now instead of later
 
I remember I was always scared of those lifts. :D Lifts in general scare me. Not gondola style, but others. Timing, not go off too early, but not too late, do not want to go down with it. Do not want to get trapped and get my ski dragged along, etc. :D

I remember once I went on a lift (single person lift, where you are consantly in contact with the snow with skies and with one round seat) the skier in front of me fell off and she tumbled down onto me and we got twisted into the lift rope and it was painful. I screamed for what felt like minutes before they finally hit stop button. :O One of my gloves got torn. I was 11. Those contraptions are creepy I tell you. :p I guess safety wasn't as high back in time in 80s either. :)
 
Absolutely not true. This lift never stops. Vehicles are attached (fixed) to a continious moving cable. See the whole ride. At the start of the film, guests are just standing and waiting for a chair to arrive. You see them actually go sit down and directly move forward and in motion closing the restraints.
Oh! Interesting. Now I see.

I was intending to point that out because I think we were all hoping for the Von Roll "Skyride" style gondola system which does use cars with "detachable grips". In that system the cars actually detach from the cable in the station to allow for loading and unloading. That's why I always thought it wouldn't be such a huge technical feat to make them work in Planet Coaster because they could stop in the station like any other ride.

Since they went the more "ski lift" style, I guess they did have to have a way for the ride to be continuous.
 
I think they have had to have changed how the guest groups work for the chairlift.

There's an article that says
Due to the nature of flow fields, you can’t easily ensure different particles will stay together even if they are going to the same goal, as the flow dictates where each individual particle moves. The solution was to put groups into a single particle in the simulation and move them as one unit. Each group has a radius within which members can move without affecting the flow simulation. Originally the family members were locked in formation but this looked very odd, especially when they turned corners, so we programmed in more freedom so they could rotate individually inside the particle so the relative positions of family members would move and shift over time for a more convincing look.
If a single car in the chairlift is for a smaller group size than the largest family size, that immediately creates problems. Even if you ensure you're forced to have enough cars to transport the whole family, what if you close the ride when only part of the family has got off it, or got on it? Do they all get teleported to the same place?

I kind of hope the eventual solution is that family members will start looking for each other if they get separated, but certainly can see why this would be a pain to deal with.
 
SIMCITY used a agent system and because of the limitations of using such a system the city sizes were stuck on the small size
I'm not sure if using SimCity is the best example since other games have since been able to do it just fine. Cities Skylines uses an agent based system and is able to simulate hundreds of thousands of people with it. So it appears that there are techniques to do this efficiently on a digital computer.

This was a thing they intended to include way back in alpha. I remember them saying in one of the developer videos that the rest of the group might wait near the exit for someone else from the group to go on the ride.
 
Absolutely not true. This lift never stops.
Actually, there are several systems that allow the gondolas/chairs to stop in the stations while the cable (and the gondolas/chairs out on it between stations) keep moving. In the majority of parks I've visited with such rides, having the vehicles stop is more common than not. Accessibility, law suits, and all that.
 
I think Frontier and the Planet Coaster team should have pulled Skies from the collection, released on time since people pre-paid expecting to release on that date that way they didn't tarnish their release promises. Now people trust the team less and on top of that you have released buggy updates in the past, thankfully they have been fixed pretty quickly. It should have been super simple to pull the Skies attraction or disable it before the DLC launched. Now people don't even know if it's going to be delivered before Christmas when you sold us on a pre-christmas release.

Shame on Frontier. Shame. It's not like you couldn't push an update out for the Skies attraction after.
 
Bo in today's stream "Game breaking bug"

.....

Anyhow, what I figure is that the "Guests" started behaving strangely and didn't re-group and made the game crash due to being so may single people for the computer to keep track of, keep tabs of, etc etc etc, thus dragging the game down to the point where the only solution is to turn itself off, or at least Windows itself turned it off due to using more & more resources from the computer......
Wish I'd seen the stream. Where in it was this mentioned?

I would LOVE it if Frontier found a way to break up groups temporarily across multiple "vehicles" in a ride. At present, all rides run with an average of 2-3 empty seats because the next group in the queue is bigger than the number of empty seats. This would also allow groups of 5-6 peeps to use rides with only 4 seats/vehicle, such as Luna Autos and the spinning coaster. So, if this is how Frontier solved the chairlift problem, it has wonderful implications not only for the future but for all the existing rides.

But surely, if this was the actual problem, getting the groups back together would have been an integral part of getting them apart to start with, and would have been dealt with in the initial conceptual stage of the chairlift before things got so far as they did before the delay.
 
Having the Right to express my Opinion: I feel that the DLC should have been released minus the Chairlift. If all the other rides were ready to go, it would have been nice to get the DLC and the Bug Fixes released yesterday and have the issue with the Chairlift be worked on after the Holiday Break.

This has caused so much back and forth madness with the Community that I believe it has/could possibly affect how people look at Frontier as a Company in future purchases. Frontier has let down a lot of Community Members and have crushed a lot of people during the Holidays.

Getting the Community all hyped up via a LIVE stream by showing off the new game DLC, to posting a new ride each day on Social Media, just to be knocked in the head by this road block really HURTS!

To end this rant I believe that in order to allow the Team at Frontier to have a Stress Free last few weeks of the year, please release the DLC minus the Chairlifts for now. I would also like to see the Bug Fixes released as well.

I just want everyone at Frontier to have a Happy Holidays and enjoy the end of the year and not have to stress or work overtime over a Chairlift bug, we understand the Community wants Chairlifts, but we can wait, please allow us to enjoy the Beauty of the other rides during the Holidays Frontier.
That is not how software development works. Yo can't just "remove some stuff" and then press a button and everything is good. It is all connected together and all parts depends on each other one way or another. The chair lift is not an isolated asset in the code, it is connected to "all" other processes in the code one way or another.

I doubt a lot of people feels let down due to this short delay, just a few vocal forum members (as usually is the case). If you base your happiness over Christmas holiday based of a game, then maybe it is time to understand what this holiday is all about and why it is being celebrated in some parts of the world.
 
ah ah ah you didn't say the magic word

This is not how software development works. Yo can't just "remove some stuff" and then press a button and everything is good. It is all connected together and all parts depends on each other one way or another. The chair lift is not an isolated asset in the code, it is connected to "all" other processes in the code one way or another.

I doubt a lot of people feels let down due to this short delay, just a few vocal forum members (as usually is the case). If you base your happiness over Christmas holiday based of a game, then maybe it is time to understand what this holiday is all about and why it is being celebrated in some parts of the world.

Actually as a software engineer for over 10 years in major MVC, OOP languages. If you build your code right and modular, like I am sure this game is made, you can easily do just that. In fact many major corporations with major launches, like this, do just that without anyone even knowing. The fact that the workshop and toolmakers kit works like it does make me think they have a pretty good ability to add and remove objects with ease. As a matter of fact, I have rides that are disabled because I don't have that DLC. Why didn't they just grey out the Skies attraction with a message, coming soon! Indeed, it seems they are about to lose more trust with their fans because they may or may have not lied about the real reason for the delay. If it was truly just Skies than why not just disable it.... Hmm... Interesting!
 
Well said?

The chairlift is part of the pack (and is essential for them to include it as such to maximise sales), a number complained when DLCs in the past were supposedly 'not finished' so to then actually release a product that literally isn't finished just isn't going to work. Hypothetically if they were to do this I can't imagine just 'taking the ride out' is as simple as it sounds. Your suggestion unfortunately isn't feasible for several reasons. I'm sure they're planning to get it out this week and wouldn't be surprised if they're working overtime to get it out ASAP.




Well said :)
This is just a game fellows the way some are about it it sounds like a life or death situation.
 
I'm not sure if using SimCity is the best example since other games have since been able to do it just fine. Cities Skylines uses an agent based system and is able to simulate hundreds of thousands of people with it. So it appears that there are techniques to do this efficiently on a digital computer.

This was a thing they intended to include way back in alpha. I remember them saying in one of the developer videos that the rest of the group might wait near the exit for someone else from the group to go on the ride.
Oh, I thought Skylines used the old way of figuring out the population... Well, the whole forcing it to be online only must be why SimCity was the way it was...
 
Oh! Interesting. Now I see.

I was intending to point that out because I think we were all hoping for the Von Roll "Skyride" style gondola system which does use cars with "detachable grips". In that system the cars actually detach from the cable in the station to allow for loading and unloading. That's why I always thought it wouldn't be such a huge technical feat to make them work in Planet Coaster because they could stop in the station like any other ride.

Since they went the more "ski lift" style, I guess they did have to have a way for the ride to be continuous.
‘Von Roll’ doesn’t exist anymore, for decades now. The company is incorporated by worldleader Doppelmayr. For a long time already, all modern (continous loop) cable cars don’t stop anymore in stations. For non-detachable is that logic offcourse. The detacheables are just slowed down and moving at a very low speed in the stations, but don’t stop and don’t need a manual push to turn around. Just before leaving the station, they are accelerated to the same speed as the cable again. Everything is automatic now.

Actually, there are several systems that allow the gondolas/chairs to stop in the stations while the cable (and the gondolas/chairs out on it between stations) keep moving. In the majority of parks I've visited with such rides, having the vehicles stop is more common than not. Accessibility, law suits, and all that.
Read the words in my post “THIS (Blizzard Beach) lift never stops’. ;)
Complete stop is becoming rare, only the old-fashioned ones. as I stated above. I’m a fanatic skier, I know (and use a lot) the modern detacheable ones...
 
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