Major Directional Change - Migrate ED to a First-person RTS

[VR CMDR Novindus]

So all in all the suggestion is "you made a nice game, now dump it and make another one"?

Wouldn't it be more reasonable that another game would simply be built seperately, instead of destroying an existing game to turn it into something else?

Lol no.

Maybe I haven’t described it well enough, or maybe it’s just too long a description for most people to read carefully enough, but no, contrary to repeated interpretations in that vein, I’m not suggesting that any of the existing gameplay be deprecated.

It’s an additional end game dynamic I’m suggesting, which if balanced and implemented well should leave all existing gameplay viable.

 

[Jmanis]

Maybe I haven’t described it well enough, or maybe it’s just too long a description for most people to read carefully enough, but no, contrary to repeated interpretations in that vein, I’m not suggesting that any of the existing gameplay be deprecated.

Your title literally contains: "Migrate ED to a First-person RTS" (Migrate: Move from one thing to another)

That's implicitly deprecating the existing gameplay. Maybe if you tried to explain this as a proposed expansion, new game mechanic or overlay, maybe people might be coming to the table a bit more readily. It's hard not to read what you're saying as deprecating the the current game experience when that's literally what you're writing.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I think the majority of it is potentially solvable. In terms of how your navy is controlled, it would be via remote instruction from anywhere in the galaxy. There would be a custom interface for moving units across the galaxy map, and for remotely directing battles, and it could quite conceivably be top-down or isometric.

I think that at least risks some incoherence - the main flying interface is very much optimised around a HOTAS/controller style of control (though KB/M works) and already gets a bit clumsy around the fairly simple non-flight interfaces such as outfitting.

Having a completely different interface paradigm primarily designed around mouse-and-menu use but still capable of being used by HOTAS or controller would I think get quite messy, even though there's no technical reason it couldn't be done.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I am perfectly happy with choice's, but this isn't the way forward.


PMFs are still not owned by player/s. They are called player made factions, not player owned factions.


Powerplay has virtually zero effect on the game world. What I would be happy about is if powerplay was much more intertwined with the BGS and basically made as another layer of the BGS instead of something that is virtually completely seperate.


You said using existing assets. To use those, you are going to have to change them in some way.


Powers have very little effect on the BGS. I don't like powerplay in its current implementation either.


I agree, it would certainly do the game wonders, but not a RTS game plonked on top of what is effectively a First Person Perspective game.

I feel like the points I’m making are being missed.

I’m not suggesting that PMFs are owned by players, but whether they are or aren’t is irrelevant to my point, which is that players work to increase the influence of the PMFs. The relevance of that is that my suggestion is an expansion on that existing gameplay, where you’re in charge of a navy, and you have better tools to work at increasing its influence.

The same goes for my using Powers as an example. Players work to increase the influence of the Power they’re pledged to.

As for the assets, the only additional function I’ve introduced is that Support Vessels increase fleet capacity for the navy. They wouldn’t lose any of their existing functions. Other assets don’t change. Just the methods of interaction, i.e. giving AI ship’s instructions.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Your title literally contains: "Migrate ED to a First-person RTS" (Migrate: Move from one thing to another)

That's implicitly deprecating the existing gameplay. Maybe if you tried to explain this as a proposed expansion, new game mechanic or overlay, maybe people might be coming to the table a bit more readily. It's hard not to read what you're saying as deprecating the the current game experience when that's literally what you're writing.

If you stop at the thread title, fair enough. It’s admittedly misleading. But the description, and the subsequent posts make it clear enough that the aim is to keep existing gameplay.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I feel like the points I’m making are being missed.

Ditto

I’m not suggesting that PMFs are owned by players, but whether they are or aren’t is irrelevant to my point, which is that players work to increase the influence of the PMFs. The relevance of that is that my suggestion is an expansion on that existing gameplay, where you’re in charge of a navy, and you have better tools to work at increasing its influence.

And that gameplay I don't want to see in ED. Another game, yes, but not ED as it doesn't fit.

The same goes for my using Powers as an example. Players work to increase the influence of the Power they’re pledged to.

They are not part of a navy and neither does it work well.

As for the assets, the only additional function I’ve introduced is that Support Vessels increase fleet capacity for the navy. They wouldn’t lose any of their existing functions. Other assets don’t change. Just the methods of interaction, i.e. giving AI ship’s instructions.

Nope, that is not something I want to see in the game. Another RTS dedicated game, yes. Not Elite dangerous.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I think that at least risks some incoherence - the main flying interface is very much optimised around a HOTAS/controller style of control (though KB/M works) and already gets a bit clumsy around the fairly simple non-flight interfaces such as outfitting.

Having a completely different interface paradigm primarily designed around mouse-and-menu use but still capable of being used by HOTAS or controller would I think get quite messy, even though there's no technical reason it couldn't be done.

Good point. It would have to be specifically geared for HOTAS and controllers. Mouse and keyboard should be easy to use even so. If they’ve made it playable on consoles, I don’t see it as too big of a challenge though.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If you stop at the thread title, fair enough. It’s admittedly misleading. But the description, and the subsequent posts make it clear enough that the aim is to keep existing gameplay.

Existing gameplay would be indirectly effected, which is the big issue.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Ditto


And that gameplay I don't want to see in ED. Another game, yes, but not ED as it doesn't fit.


They are not part of a navy and neither does it work well.


Nope, that is not something I want to see in the game. Another RTS dedicated game, yes. Not Elite dangerous.

Lol, I think your objection to the suggestion has been well noted by now, but we’re discussing the implementation.

To that effect, I of course wasn’t suggesting that PMFs or Powers are part of a Navy. The Navy is my suggestion, and I’m drawing similarities between what players do now to increase the influence of factions and Powers, and what they’d do with a Navy but with more engaging tools, to demonstrate that this is an expansion on existing systems. Whether it currently works well or not is also beside the point.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Existing gameplay would be indirectly effected, which is the big issue.

It should be affected. The concern is that it shouldn’t be negatively affected, and that the new gameplay should add to the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Lol, I think your objection to the suggestion has been well noted by now, but we’re discussing the implementation.

To that effect, I of course wasn’t suggesting that PMFs or Powers are part of a Navy. The Navy is my suggestion, and I’m drawing similarities between what players do now to increase the influence of factions and Powers, and what they’d do with a Navy but with more engaging tools, to demonstrate that this is an expansion on existing systems. Whether it currently works well or not is also beside the point.

I don't want to see players in charge of a Navy. It is not what ED is about and neither should it be. As I said many times, a seperate RTS game would be perfect for this. Not ED.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It should be affected. The concern is that it shouldn’t be negatively affected, and that the new gameplay should add to the game.

There would be no way to stop that unless you make the whole thing a pointless affair, which again would be a waste of time.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I don't want to see players in charge of a Navy. It is not what ED is about and neither should it be. As I said many times, a seperate RTS game would be perfect for this. Not ED.

Do you mean to say that you don’t want this Navy and RTS element in the game? I think you should say what you mean.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

There would be no way to stop that unless you make the whole thing a pointless affair, which again would be a waste of time.

Unless of course, as stated repeatedly now, the implementation was balanced such that other currently viable methods of influence were kept effective and competitive. This is where the imagination I referred to earlier comes into play.

 

[Jmanis]

If you stop at the thread title, fair enough. It’s admittedly misleading. But the description, and the subsequent posts make it clear enough that the aim is to keep existing gameplay.

OK... so...

Progressively shift ED into a First-person real-time strategy game, allowing Commanders to play the BGS and possibly PowerPlay to forge their own persistent and warring mini-empires for greater personal benefit, fame, and glory.

No. I don't want to command a faction. Also, this fundamental objective of what you want to achieve alone destroys the current way I influence and direct factional activity, which is primarily through indirect action. This also destroys the repeatedly stated purpose of the BGS by FD; to provide a living, breathing purpose. If the BGS is at the forefront of players minds when they play, they've done it wrong.

Once a player has earned their stripes in the early game grind and reached some predefined set of achievements, they are proffered a rank (such as Admiral, or something more fitting) that allows them to commission an AI Naval fleet, and a range of Support Vessels for remote operations. The Admiral must register a faction to begin, then hire AI Pilots of varying types and skill to operate the ships in their Naval Fleet.

Rank in whose navy? Players are members of the Pilot's Federation and thus, are independent. Ranks in the game are honorary titles to identify the relative impact an individual has had for that superpower. It is not an actual military rank.

Navy Ship Types

Navy Assets

Support Vessels

Gameplay

Without the premise of command, this whole section becomes pretty redundant.

I totally get what you're trying to say, but from literally the first sentence, you want to essentially destroy the way I play this game. You're saying that I basically have no place in bringing a faction to dominance unless I'm one of these admirals or whatever commanding these things. Do you see now why I'm so much against a suggestion like this? It would literally wipe out the reasons and ways I play this game, and I know there's others who would share this.

Anyway, I'm tapping out of this thread now, because it's never happening anyway.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Unless of course, as stated repeatedly now, the implementation was balanced such that other currently viable methods of influence were kept effective and competitive. This is where the imagination I referred to earlier comes into play.

There would be no way to balance it. It's either a pointless excersise or it becomes necessary.

 

[Para Handy]

... am I allowed to say NO?

Is it OK for me to not want my game changed to anything like this?

Am I allowed to say there are lots of games where people can do this sort of thing so leave Elite alone?

.... anyway:

Just gonnae no dae that.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

OK... so...



No. I don't want to command a faction. Also, this fundamental objective of what you want to achieve alone destroys the current way I influence and direct factional activity, which is primarily through indirect action. This also destroys the repeatedly stated purpose of the BGS by FD; to provide a living, breathing purpose. If the BGS is at the forefront of players minds when they play, they've done it wrong.


Rank in whose navy? Players are members of the Pilot's Federation and thus, are independent. Ranks in the game are honorary titles to identify the relative impact an individual has had for that superpower. It is not an actual military rank.


Without the premise of command, this whole section becomes pretty redundant.

I totally get what you're trying to say, but from literally the first sentence, you want to essentially destroy the way I play this game. You're saying that I basically have no place in bringing a faction to dominance unless I'm one of these admirals or whatever commanding these things. Do you see now why I'm so much against a suggestion like this? It would literally wipe out the reasons and ways I play this game, and I know there's others who would share this.

Anyway, I'm tapping out of this thread now, because it's never happening anyway.

I’m suggesting that the Pilots Federation, or other relevant authority, grant a military rank to a commander who has earned it, giving them the right to assemble and command a Navy.

If you don’t want to control a faction or command a Navy, you don’t have to.

As repeatedly stated, the aim is to maintain individual impact on the BGS through normal activity. Currently, if a large group of players is working towards bringing a faction to dominance, or otherwise increasing the influence of the Power they’ve pledged to in a system, your individual efforts are probably not going to be very effective if you’re competing with them. Navies would work very similarly, so I don’t see how that would destroy the way you currently play the game.

If the BGS is at the forefront of a player’s mind, then they’re playing their way. There’s no wrong or right way to play within the rules of the game.

Lastly, whether Frontier ever implements anything like this or not is not that important to me. I enjoy making and discussing suggestions.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

There would be no way to balance it. It's either a pointless excersise or it becomes necessary.

Then you have nothing to be concerned over.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

... am I allowed to say NO?

Is it OK for me to not want my game changed to anything like this?

Am I allowed to say there are lots of games where people can do this sort of thing so leave Elite alone?

.... anyway:

Just gonnae no dae that.

Of course. That’s a perfectly valid opinion. I just prefer discussing the specifics of the implementation, and addressing any issues people identify with it, so that I can improve on it. That of course places no obligation on anyone else to do the same.