Make Fuel scooping fun again

[Teh Smoo]

You're also making comparisons based on current technology when you want to discredit something 1,300 years in the future AND in a universe where Frontier has specifically stated that they violate uniform physical law in the name of design concpets and "balance".

It's the nature of the game. We don't have tractor beams, either, as nice as they would be. Because "realism."

Who knows, maybe the heat sink is a superduper thermoelectric element after all. The heat has to GO somewhere, it doesn't just disappear, and you can only radiate just so much as infrared.

 

[Chrystoph]

It's the nature of the game. We don't have tractor beams, either, as nice as they would be. Because "realism."

Who knows, maybe the heat sink is a superduper thermoelectric element after all. The heat has to GO somewhere, it doesn't just disappear, and you can only radiate just so much as infrared.

Yes, but that would be true no matter what system you use, which brings us back to converting the heat into some other form of energy as opposed to dumping it into a waste receptacle to be jettisoned. That was why I suggested an active radiator, such as a refrigerator laser.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Yes, but that would be true no matter what system you use, which brings us back to converting the heat into some other form of energy as opposed to dumping it into a waste receptacle to be jettisoned. That was why I suggested an active radiator, such as a refrigerator laser.

I am unable to find anything suggesting that a refrigerator laser could work.
2009: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-a-refrigeration-laser-thermodynamically-possible.313229/
2010: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22649.0

And converting heat into energy requires intermediate steps. Like boiling water, or heating up something cooler for thermoelectric effect.

You need a magical device that converts heat energy into power. If we get that, I want a tractor beam too, please. :?

 

[Chrystoph]

Should have read further in your thread, 2010. According to some of the later posts, Brin ran the concept past a pair of Nobel Laureates including a plasma physicist who said that it was "plausible".

 

[Jubei Himura]

I like these ideas and the surrounding discussion. OP has a great callout for the Fuel trading. It is an interesting consecpt and a great way for new players to build up their starting credits without replying on the fabled gold mine areas.

I'm no explorer (although I did go to the Formidine Rift a couple of times) and I think the fuel scoop mod ideas are well thought out. You have my support.

 

[J-Dog]

I don't think this is a bad idea at all, though I don't know how much appetite there would be from others for it. For now, in the absence of engineered fuel scoops, you can just fit smaller, lower rated scoops. The smaller and lower rated the scoop, the more strategy will be involved in scooping and the more of a challenge you can make for yourself if you want to.

 

[Daynen]

I don't think this is a bad idea at all, though I don't know how much appetite there would be from others for it. For now, in the absence of engineered fuel scoops, you can just fit smaller, lower rated scoops. The smaller and lower rated the scoop, the more strategy will be involved in scooping and the more of a challenge you can make for yourself if you want to.

You're not wrong, except that there's no reward involved with the higher risk. You'd be literally dipping a star all day to fill your tank once. You're just purposely gimping yourself in that case.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Should have read further in your thread, 2010. According to some of the later posts, Brin ran the concept past a pair of Nobel Laureates including a plasma physicist who said that it was "plausible".

And still later, someone said:

Not to disparage Hannes Alfven who was a brilliant man, but he earned a Nobel Prize for work that is still largely misunderstood, discredited or disagreed with. Plasma physicists still don't agree whether his models or theories about plasma physics our correct and his idea regarding the ambiplasma and plasma cosmology are largely discredited.

So, we have one schmot guy who says "sure, why not" and a bunch of people who don't see how it could possibly work.

Nobody has even begun to design the thing, and anything I've found has said that the medium would be destroyed before it could work. So, if you build it out of handwavium, it could work? I want a handwavium tractor beam, if we're mining that stuff now.

https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-heat-be-used-as-a-pumping-source-for-lasers
https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...-laser-and-problems-with-population-inversion

 

[bigity]

I can't imagine yet another silly mini-game added to Elite, which is full of plenty of grind, and slow travel. We don't need yet another layer of that added.

 

[Jubei Himura]

I can't imagine yet another silly mini-game added to Elite, which is full of plenty of grind, and slow travel. We don't need yet another layer of that added.

So bigity, what would you do to make fuel scooping more enjoyable? Honestly, simply downplaying ideas without alternatives is a waste and doesn't add to the conversation.

Why would it be a grind? Why is it a mini-game and not simply a task in the game? What are the alternatives you would like to see, personally, on this topic?

 

[Teh Smoo]

So bigity, what would you do to make fuel scooping more enjoyable? Honestly, simply downplaying ideas without alternatives is a waste and doesn't add to the conversation.

Why would it be a grind? Why is it a mini-game and not simply a task in the game? What are the alternatives you would like to see, personally, on this topic?

Grab and tweak the interdiction minigame? Except instead of dodging interdict, you're dodging solar flares?

Or, maybe solar flares are a better, cooler source of fuel, and you can seek them out for a bonus?

 

[Julio Montega]

I still wait for the fuel scoop to tie into a "gaseous refinery" allowing for scoop-da-mine gas giants.
Currently it is just a "go to next system without having to refuel at stations" card.
Totally hope we get an engi option to add a small scoop to the fuel tanks of ships
for drawbacks.

Often ships i field don't have internal slot count to install a scoop.

 

[Teh Smoo]

I still wait for the fuel scoop to tie into a "gaseous refinery" allowing for scoop-da-mine gas giants.
Currently it is just a "go to next system without having to refuel at stations" card.
Totally hope we get an engi option to add a small scoop to the fuel tanks of ships
for drawbacks.

Often ships i field don't have internal slot count to install a scoop.

Not a bad idea. A fuel tank of class N, with N-1 capacity, but an integrated scoop?

 

[Julio Montega]

Not a bad idea. A fuel tank of class N, with N-1 capacity, but an integrated scoop?

I'd say reduce capacity by one size, and give it 1/2 size of fuel tank fuel scoop at disposal

 

[Teh Smoo]

I'd say reduce capacity by one size, and give it 1/2 size of fuel tank fuel scoop at disposal

I think it would be interesting to run into a situation where I actually bother to fit more fuel tanks. An 8A fuel scoop, plus a set of large fuel tanks in optional slots, would be a LOT of fuel. But it's WAY more than I would ever actually personally need.

 

[Jubei Himura]

Grab and tweak the interdiction minigame? Except instead of dodging interdict, you're dodging solar flares?

Or, maybe solar flares are a better, cooler source of fuel, and you can seek them out for a bonus?

My Space-Christ! That's brilliant!

 

[MightyBOB]

IMO there is nothing at all wrong with the way fuel scooping works now and this is a solution in search of a problem. That being said, if the base stats of fuel scoops are left alone so I can continue scooping the way I've always scooped then by all means go ahead and introduce some engineering mods or experimental effects for scoops to make them into specialist scoops rather than generalist scoops, I'll just personally not use them. I agree you should be able to carry/fabricate fuel cells in your cargo so you can scoop and sell the fuel.

 

[Daynen]

I can't imagine yet another silly mini-game added to Elite, which is full of plenty of grind, and slow travel. We don't need yet another layer of that added.

Someone's not reading. My proposal would actually give us a way to REDUCE grind in one particular way (less time spent staring at a fuel bar) at a tradeoff of increased risk, a bigger portion of your total build output and more effort; also minigames are pretty much the opposite of "grind" in most cases because they offer alternatives to doing the exact same thing all the time. Mining is a grind; doing a hundred trade runs between the same two systems is a grind. Fuel scooping doesn't have to be a grind.

IMO there is nothing at all wrong with the way fuel scooping works now and this is a solution in search of a problem. That being said, if the base stats of fuel scoops are left alone so I can continue scooping the way I've always scooped then by all means go ahead and introduce some engineering mods or experimental effects for scoops to make them into specialist scoops rather than generalist scoops, I'll just personally not use them. I agree you should be able to carry/fabricate fuel cells in your cargo so you can scoop and sell the fuel.

There's an important difference between "something wrong" and "an opportunity for more fun." I'm suggesting the latter; you've mistaken it for the former I think. You also might want to go read the OP again; I included a suggestion for a slightly improved "vanilla" scoop with much less gain and much lesser drawbacks.






Come on folks; at least READ. You're on a FORUM, for crying out loud.

 

[Chrome]

+support

So question... my courier hits 80% scooping after each jump (max scoop rate at max speed) with barely enough time to fill the tank before overheating. Which of your options would be best for me?

Low emissions power plant engineering can help here, even if just a little bit.

 

[Julio Montega]

Low emissions power plant engineering can help here, even if just a little bit.

Yup and the drive engineering or fsd engineering not raising or better lowering heat generation is helpful.